Why didn't Aginor do anything in this Age?

[alykyn]

Yeah yeah, I can hear the excuses already,

"The DO isn't free enough in this Age for him to use the same dark energies he used to create the Shadowspawn before",

or

"He didn't need to, he already made everything there was to make" etc etc

 

But still if you are a scientist you ARE a scientist and we never saw an OUNCE of scientist from Aginor in any version of himself which really was dissapointing.

 

It would have been much more fun if we had one evil genius scientist creating new and exciting SS all the time, how cool would that have been!?

 

I won't buy that there was nothing new to create!!

[Zentari]

Yeah yeah, I can hear the excuses already, "The Do isn't free enough in this age for him to use the same dark energies he used to create the Shadowspawn before", or

"He didn't need to, he already made everything there was to make" etc etc

 

But still if you are a scientist you ARE a scientist and we never saw an OUNCE of scientist from Aginor in any version of himself which really was dissapointing.

 

It would have been much more fun if we had one evil genius scientist creating new and exciting SS all the time, how cool would that have been!

 

I won't buy that there was nothing new to create!!

Being in the equivalent of the middle ages kinda throws a wrench into the whole genetic engineering thing....

[Massive]

Well he came back to a world that had degenerated in terms of science and technology. I hope he was proud of contributing to that. I wonder if even one of the Forsaken could be embarrassed over what took place in that sense.

[Feral]

Well I don't really think he was given the chance. After he was brought back as Osan'gar he probably wasn't given much of a free rein, due to his previous failure. And even so, 2 years or however isn't really that long for any major scientific discoveries, especially when one's gone through the trauma of dying and coming back in a new body. Or maybe he did manage to create something and we just haven't seen it yet...

[Finnssss22]

Heh, most of Aginor's "discoveries" took decades and most of them were by accident.

He basically had free reign to experiment any way he wished for years and his failures greatly outnumbered his successes heh.

 

He tried for years to make the Trolloc's and it wasn't till he used the TP in the making did it work and even then, the Fade's were a completely accidental byproduct that he still doesn't understand.

[alykyn]

In this Age Aginor didn't even appear to try anything at all tho. No evidence of even one experiment, kinda odd for a scientist mind..

[MarkDiLillo]

Heh, most of Aginor's "discoveries" took decades and most of them were by accident.

He basically had free reign to experiment any way he wished for years and his failures greatly outnumbered his successes heh.

 

He tried for years to make the Trolloc's and it wasn't till he used the TP in the making did it work and even then, the Fade's were a completely accidental byproduct that he still doesn't understand.

 

Where are you getting all of this info from?

[Finnssss22]

Heh, most of Aginor's "discoveries" took decades and most of them were by accident.

He basically had free reign to experiment any way he wished for years and his failures greatly outnumbered his successes heh.

 

He tried for years to make the Trolloc's and it wasn't till he used the TP in the making did it work and even then, the Fade's were a completely accidental byproduct that he still doesn't understand.

 

Where are you getting all of this info from?

 

 

His and other Forsaken's PoV's.

[Guest PiotrekS]

I think I read a RJ's quote about this somewhere.

 

He basically said that Aginor found himself in the world that lacked the necessary infrastructure for his research and his sophisticated skills became largely useless. If you're used to working on complicated problems in developed environment it could take you a lot of time to get going when you suddenly have to start everything from scratch.

 

Also I'm pretty sure RJ said that Aginor was a brilliant scientist, so his "creations" weren't just the matter of luck or simply huge resources at his disposal. He earned a honorific third name in the Age of Legends, an age that had One Power and sophisticated technology, so he had to be really good.

[alykyn]

Poll

[Durinax]

like others said he was missing the infrastructure and technology to really attempt to develope anything.

and unless a secret labratory still exists in the blight (and trollocs didnt smash it just for fun) we wouldnt have seen aginor in the books then because the DO would just send him to the lab to fiddle aroudn

[Finnssss22]

It's no insult to Aginor to say that most of his discoveries were by accident.

Some of the best and most important inventions and discoveries in history happened by accident by very brilliant men.

Most of the time, it's simply the ability to recognize that you did discover something that's the most important.

[bsmnt23]

Redacted for moronitude. Move along folks, nothing to see here.

[mb]

The books do not tell which Power created the Shadowspawn.

Since there seemed to been a large quantity of just Trollocs alone (at the beginning), I would guess the One Power was used.

 

Do not recall anywhere telling that any of Aginor's creations were accidental.

 

 

It seems to me that Aginor/Osangar did not have much time or resources to make new Shadowspawn in the Third Age.

[Finnssss22]

The books do not tell which Power created the Shadowspawn.

Since there seemed to been a large quantity of just Trollocs alone (at the beginning), I would guess the One Power was used.

 

Do not recall anywhere telling that any of Aginor's creations were accidental.

 

 

It seems to me that Aginor/Osangar did not have much time or resources to make new Shadowspawn in the Third Age.

 

 

The books have hints to all this but to clear it up nice and easy....

 

Question: How were the gholams made? Were they created or bred like the Trollocs? How exactly are they controlled if they are immune to the One Power?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: The gholam---singular and plural are the same---were created, not bred. Supposedly their creation involved making them so that they would be obedient to the Chosen, whoever they might be at any given time. This was an attempt at copying something that had turned up in Myrddraal, which seem incapable of disobeying one of the Chosen, possibly because of the use of the True Power in creation of the Trollocs, the parent stock of the Myrddraal. Even Aginor, who created the Trollocs, and thus indirectly the Myrddraal, was uncertain about the actual cause. (Becoming one of the Forsaken involves receiving a mark from the Dark One in return for your oaths; this mark is invisible and cannot be sensed by another human being, even another of the Forsaken, but it can be [seen] by certain non-human creatures, including Myrddraal and draghkar among others. This may play a part in the Myrddraal's obedience but doesn't explain it completely.) This element in gholam has some flaws, however, as we have seen in a small measure. In any case, if I were you, I wouldn't try giving orders to a gholam unless I were one of the Forsaken.

 

And...

Question: Ishamael's corpse in The Dragon Reborn had only pits where his eyes and mouth once were. Was this a result of the True Power? If this is true, is the True Power the reason that Fades have no eyes, but some supernatural abilities?

RJ: The True Power is reason that Ishamael's corpse had no eyes, just as it was the reason that his eyes had been caverns of flame, but it's not precisely the reason that Fades have no eyes. The True Power as well as the One Power was used in creation of Trollocs, which proved to be uncontrollable and useless as soldiers until the first Myrddraal were born, throwbacks to the human stock used in creating Trollocs, but twisted by the inclusion of the True Power in making Trollocs.

 

Also...

Aginor (whom he said after some prompting had several elements of the classic mad scientist type) was a biological scientist who never considered the consequences of his actions. Aginor would say, "I wonder what would happen if I took the Ebola virus and altered it to be an airborne virus." He'd go ahead and do just that, all without realizing he'd be creating a potentially unstoppable plague. All Aginor would reply to that was, "Hmm. Interesting." (Jordan then mentioned Aginor's creation of the Trollocs, their defects, "It was strong, big, tough to kill, and......stupid," and that it was the birth of the first Myrddraal that saved the Trollocs from being a complete failure.)

 

I'm pretty sure I remember reading somewhere about Aginor trying to create the Trolloc's with just the One Power and failing badly. The results did not live long and it wasn't till he started using the True Power as well that he got what there is today.

I wish I could find those references so I could be 100% on this part though.

[Finnssss22]

Well, he has breasts, now. That would be too much of a distraction for any man to spend too much time in the lab . Also dealing with a sudden overwhelming urge to go dress shopping and trying to cope with landing in an age where there is NO CHOCOLATE!

 

Wrong one, Aginor was brought back as Osan'gar/Dashiva.

Balthamel was brought back as the female Aran'gar/Halima.

[alykyn]

Well, he has breasts, now. That would be too much of a distraction for any man to spend too much time in the lab . Also dealing with a sudden overwhelming urge to go dress shopping and trying to cope with landing in an age where there is NO CHOCOLATE!

 

 

You mean his former pal Balthamel has (had) breasts. Aginor was Osan'gar and Dashiva, not Aran'gar.

[bsmnt23]

Well, he has breasts, now. That would be too much of a distraction for any man to spend too much time in the lab . Also dealing with a sudden overwhelming urge to go dress shopping and trying to cope with landing in an age where there is NO CHOCOLATE!

 

 

You mean his former pal Balthamel has (had) breasts. Aginor was Osan'gar and Dashiva, not Aran'gar.

 

 

Blood and bloody flamin'... nuts. Ok, you got me, now I feel stupid. I havent gotten that far in my re-read, though. Any way you can balefire a post? Serious facepalm here. Sigh.

[Terez]

Nope, your shame will live forever.

[OptimusPrime]

Dark Ogier please

[Tiinker]

Dark Ogier please

 

Aka Trollocs?

[alykyn]

Well, he has breasts, now. That would be too much of a distraction for any man to spend too much time in the lab . Also dealing with a sudden overwhelming urge to go dress shopping and trying to cope with landing in an age where there is NO CHOCOLATE!

 

 

You mean his former pal Balthamel has (had) breasts. Aginor was Osan'gar and Dashiva, not Aran'gar.

 

 

Blood and bloody flamin'... nuts. Ok, you got me, now I feel stupid. I havent gotten that far in my re-read, though. Any way you can balefire a post? Serious facepalm here. Sigh.

 

Lol, no problem! :)

[lews reborn]

Yeah yeah, I can hear the excuses already,

"The DO isn't free enough in this Age for him to use the same dark energies he used to create the Shadowspawn before",

or

"He didn't need to, he already made everything there was to make" etc etc

 

But still if you are a scientist you ARE a scientist and we never saw an OUNCE of scientist from Aginor in any version of himself which really was dissapointing.

 

It would have been much more fun if we had one evil genius scientist creating new and exciting SS all the time, how cool would that have been!?

 

I won't buy that there was nothing new to create!!

 

ha when I first read through this i couldn't figure out why you were saying ss and was hoping no one from a German descent saw it. I know what it is now though

[OptimusPrime]

Dark Ogier please

 

Aka Trollocs?

 

Theres no relation whatsoever.

[Erunion]

Dark Ogier please

 

Aka Trollocs?

 

Theres no relation whatsoever.

 

No they aren't any relation, but they are similar - sort of the Dark One's response to the Ogier. They are big, strong, and not-human. They're just dumb and vicious where the Ogier are smart and careful (among other differences).