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Mat is Aemon


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Then who is Perrin?

The three are linked, I highly doubt that two would be heroes and one not.

Heroes being spun out in the same generation (except for linked ones) I guess would be rare. Heroes being spun out in the same year (except for twin ones) I guess would be more rare.

 

I recall a past thread speculating about Perrin.

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The best hint we have on Perrin is the gilded lion helmet he's wearing in the dream, when he has the thought that he's used the axe in a hundred battles. Seems to be a hint of a past life memory. The gilded lion might point to Joal Ramedar, last king of Aldeshar (which was the last nation to fall to Hawkwing) and grandfather of Ishara. Mat remembers (from the Finn memories) commanding the final battle against Hawkwing, and the army or perhaps the elite force was known as the Golden Lions. Some think Lanfear put the helmet on his head, but again, it's the closest thing to a hint we have.

Edited by Terez
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AIUI, 'blood coming out' refers to an individual being a genetic 'throwback' to his ancestors. But AFAIK, language is not encoded in the genes. Be fascinating if it was, though!

 

No, it is clear in the text that one of the way the Old Blood manifests itself is through the involuntary use of the Old Tongue. So language apparently is encoded.

 

True, but I meant in 'real-life' biology. nvm.

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I wasn't sure about this theory one way or the other, since of course there is no actual proof either way, but then I went back and read the bit in TDR where Mat has that flashback to Aemon's memories, and there was a line that went something like this, "He had always been known as a gambler. It was time to toss the dice." Not proof, I'll admit, but not far off in book terms. Also, there is the possibility that the taint from the Shadar Logoth dagger broke down the normal barriers separating memories from different lives, just as the taint from the Power did for Rand. It would make a...sort of sense.

 

Also, it would seem very strange if the pattern just picked some randommer to be one of its most important ta'veren in the LB. I have a hard time believing Mat wasn't someone important before.

\

 

Mat is likely Aemon. This is the LB, and the most relevant Light siders would be reborn for that cause.

 

Perrin would also have to be a very important figure in history. Egwene the leader that opposed LTT, Lan being Jearom, Elayne could very well be Ilyena...

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Mat is likely Aemon. This is the LB, and the most relevant Light siders would be reborn for that cause.

 

Perrin would also have to be a very important figure in history. Egwene the leader that opposed LTT, Lan being Jearom, Elayne could very well be Ilyena...

 

I agree with you when you say the most relevant characters would be important figures reborn. And indeed, If Rand and Mat are, then Perrin most likely is. But Lan being Jearom Reborn? I really don't think so. And Elayne being Ilyena is impossible for me, as well as Egwene being Latra Posae Decume. Or if they are, then I am Bela Reborn in this Age...

 

The only hint we have of Egwene possibly being someone reborn is this :

 

Egwene frowned. She had learned enough to recognize the Old Tongue, if not to understand more than a few words. Carai an Caldazar! Al Caldazar! “For the honor of the Red Eagle! For the Red Eagle!” Ancient battle cries of Manetheren, a nation that had vanished during the Trolloc Wars. A nation that had stood where the Two Rivers was now. That much, she knew; but in some way it seemed for a moment that she should understand the rest, too, as if the meaning were just out of sight, and all she had to do was turn her head to know.

 

And that would suggest the same timeline as Mat, for the memory is fuzzy, and she think she should understand the rest. It is arguable that she could be reborn more than twice in three thousand years, yeah... But I don't buy it anyway :p

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Mat is likely Aemon. This is the LB, and the most relevant Light siders would be reborn for that cause.

 

Perrin would also have to be a very important figure in history. Egwene the leader that opposed LTT, Lan being Jearom, Elayne could very well be Ilyena...

 

I agree with you when you say the most relevant characters would be important figures reborn. And indeed, If Rand and Mat are, then Perrin most likely is. But Lan being Jearom Reborn? I really don't think so. And Elayne being Ilyena is impossible for me, as well as Egwene being Latra Posae Decume. Or if they are, then I am Bela Reborn in this Age...

 

The only hint we have of Egwene possibly being someone reborn is this :

 

Egwene frowned. She had learned enough to recognize the Old Tongue, if not to understand more than a few words. Carai an Caldazar! Al Caldazar! “For the honor of the Red Eagle! For the Red Eagle!” Ancient battle cries of Manetheren, a nation that had vanished during the Trolloc Wars. A nation that had stood where the Two Rivers was now. That much, she knew; but in some way it seemed for a moment that she should understand the rest, too, as if the meaning were just out of sight, and all she had to do was turn her head to know.

 

And that would suggest the same timeline as Mat, for the memory is fuzzy, and she think she should understand the rest. It is arguable that she could be reborn more than twice in three thousand years, yeah... But I don't buy it anyway :p

 

 

The case against Elayne being Illeyna is the most likely, yes. I would think that LTT would recognize her somehow, but then again, look how long it took Ishamael and Lanfear to find out that Rand was LTT.

 

Lan is the best of the Warders and never lost a battle and the best blademaster in the series. Jearom was a Warder and considered the best blademaster ever. Coincidence? There is no coincidence around ta'averen.

 

Like you pointed out, between 3000 years, these characters could well have been reborn more than once. There are plenty of hints that Egwene is Latra...both commanding the women, both strong of will, fighting against the Dragons plans. And what Rand said in Dragonmount "Maybe it's so that we can have a second chance".

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I've never thought of Elayne as Ilyena reborn, despite the similarity of the names, and a certain physical resemblance. That's no guarantee of rebirth - there's little physical resemblance between Rand and LTT, after all. But I like the idea of Egwene as Latra, and Lan as Jearom. Intriguing ideas both. And I'd be delighted if Mat did indeed turn out to be Aemon!

 

(BTW.. Hi Demiandre, how did the Pink Floyd gig go? :happy: )

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I don't actually expect any of these re-birth questions to be answered in AMoL. Doing so isn't necessary.

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So I was sitting there at work the other day and suddenly it hit me. The argument that Mat isn't Aemon reborn because Hawkwing didn't appear to recognize him is not only flawed but also completely irrelevant.

 

First of all, who says that Aemon and Eldrene are even Hero's of the Horn in the first place. We'll get back to that in a bit though.

 

Ok, for Hawkwing not recognizing Mat, lets assume that Aemon and Eldrene are Hero's of the Horn and the argument is that Mat is not Aemon because Hawkwing didn't say anything to him like he did to Rand. Where were they then? We didn't see Aemon and Eldrene summoned by the Horn.

That only leaves two possibilities, either Mat is Aemon reborn and Hawkwing either didn't or couldn't recognize him OR Aemon is not a Hero of the Horn in the first place.

If they are HotH, Aemon and Eldrene not appearing when the Horn was sounded is more proof that Mat is Aemon than Hawkwing not saying anything and if they're not HotH, then Hawkwing not saying anything means absolutely nothing.

 

Either way, Hawkwing not saying anything to Mat is completely and utterly irrelevant.

Edited by Finnssss
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We don't actually know that Hawkwing did not recognise Mat. All we know is that Hawkwing addressed Mat as 'Trumpeter' and Perrin as 'Bannerman'. It's quite possible that the Precepts did not permit him to identify them further, though he did recognise and name the Dragon.

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We don't actually know that Hawkwing did not recognise Mat. All we know is that Hawkwing addressed Mat as 'Trumpeter' and Perrin as 'Bannerman'. It's quite possible that the Precepts did not permit him to identify them further, though he did recognise and name the Dragon.

I find this highly implausible. So the precepts allowed Hawkiwing to name Rand but not Mat for some reason even though he recognized them both. this is a very unnatural assumption about the precepts of which we have no hint of a proof. This is basically inventing a strange rule for the precepts to justify a theory.

Plus, Birgitte certainly doesn't care about any precepts any longer and yet she definitely doesn't recognize Mat as Aemon.

Edited by herid
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We don't actually know that Hawkwing did not recognise Mat. All we know is that Hawkwing addressed Mat as 'Trumpeter' and Perrin as 'Bannerman'. It's quite possible that the Precepts did not permit him to identify them further, though he did recognise and name the Dragon.

I find this highly implausible. So the precepts allowed Hawkiwing to name Rand but not Mat for some reason even though he recognized them both. this is a very unnatural assumption about the precepts of which we have no hint of a proof. This is basically inventing a strange rule for the precepts to justify a theory.

Plus, Birgitte certainly doesn't care about any precepts any longer and yet she definitely doesn't recognize Mat as Aemon.

 

But it's irrelevant anyway.

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Gotta be one of those things rabid folks just want to see or believe. Somebody famous once lived & died here - OH MY GOD somebody just acted like and said something the famous person once said! IT MUST BE FAMOUS PERSON REBORN

 

 

Hey look! That ugly guy wears two swords! IT MUST BE GAIDEL CAIN REBORN! *swoon

 

 

...just sayin

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Gotta be one of those things rabid folks just want to see or believe. Somebody famous once lived & died here - OH MY GOD somebody just acted like and said something the famous person once said! IT MUST BE FAMOUS PERSON REBORN

 

 

Hey look! That ugly guy wears two swords! IT MUST BE GAIDEL CAIN REBORN! *swoon

 

 

...just sayin

 

HAHA spot on..it's just plain silly when people try to make out every main character to be a hero reborn.

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Yeah, damn those silly author's for putting something like that in our heads when they give one of the main characters a memory from one such hero.

 

 

Obviously just plain silliness on our part :dry:

Edited by Finnssss
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Yeah, damn those silly author's for putting something like that in our heads when they give one of the main characters a memory from one such hero.

 

 

Obviously just plain silliness on our part :dry:

 

I actually don't mind the Mat as Aemon reborn so much, although I find him being a descendent to be much more likely. But you have to admit people get a bit crazy on this topic.

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Yeah, damn those silly author's for putting something like that in our heads when they give one of the main characters a memory from one such hero.

 

 

Obviously just plain silliness on our part :dry:

 

I actually don't mind the Mat as Aemon reborn so much, although I find him being a descendent to be much more likely. But you have to admit people get a bit crazy on this topic.

 

 

 

Which topic, Mat or the whole series in general :biggrin:

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Not to beat a dead horse... As long as I can devise by zero all of the evidence is right there.

And not to be too geeky but in practical math the answer is infinity. Any number divided by a smaller and smaller number veiled a significantly larger answer. So a division by zero is in defined in theoretical terms.

Ca you tell I am an engineer? Dont ask me what time it is.

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Not to beat a dead horse... As long as I can devise by zero all of the evidence is right there.

And not to be too geeky but in practical math the answer is infinity. Any number divided by a smaller and smaller number veiled a significantly larger answer. So a division by zero is in defined in theoretical terms.

Ca you tell I am an engineer? Dont ask me what time it is.

 

Honestly, if you're not prepared to beat a dead horse around here from time to time then you're coming to the wrong place :biggrin:

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About the precepts, I take they are for only in Telaranrhiod; not when the Horn summons the Heroes, nor when the Wheel spins the Heroes out, or even when a Hero is ripped out.

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This is the Last Battle people, all the heroes will show up in one form or another (Horn).

 

Logain was probably LTT's chief in command at the strike on SG. Probably the guy that destroyed the 2nd largest city in AoL once he went mad. Logain is as strong as Demandred or Angior.

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