Fat man angreal

[herid]

BS made it fairly clear in his recent interview that the fat man angreal will show up.

 

What are the theories on who's got it? I don't think it has been discussed recently.

I thought for a while that Demandred might have it just because Demandred is a mysterious baddies upto something, well, mysterious. But I now think that this can be discounted because Demandred would surely take it to the fight at the Cleansing if he had it. Same goes for Osan'gar/Dashiva.

 

One obvious candidate is Taim (regardless if he has another secret identity or not).

 

There were also a few Aes Sedai around including some Blacks like Katherine or Galina. Galina is clearly out as she never thought of it in her POVs. The others might be a possibility although it's not completely clear if they'd recognize the angreal for what it is as it's one that's made for a man. That's what Rand thought anyway. Of course he could have been mistaken. It's also possible that Rand didn't have it with him when he was kidnapped. He didn't try to use it at the time. However, he seemed very sure that it must be in the wagons somewhere after he was freed so maybe he did have it with him when he was taken.

[yoniy0]

Yes, well, Taim seems to look for it after the Wells (in Perrin's PoV, ACoS), but it looks like he didn't find it. If that's the case, I think our best bet is it being taken by one of the AS that wasn't captured (Katerine is a good option). Supposing that's the case, who would have it now? Well, Katerine took her time returning to the Tower, but I can't remember if it was before WH. Mesaana would probably end with it, which does suggest Demandred may have it. Perhaps he simply didn't get it in time for the Cleansing.

[Feral]

Yes, well, Taim seems to look for it after the Wells (in Perrin's PoV, ACoS), but it looks like he didn't find it. If that's the case, I think our best bet is it being taken by one of the AS that wasn't captured (Katerine is a good option). Supposing that's the case, who would have it now? Well, Katerine took her time returning to the Tower, but I can't remember if it was before WH. Mesaana would probably end with it, which does suggest Demandred may have it. Perhaps he simply didn't get it in time for the Cleansing.

 

Katerine was captured though. She didn't escape till the beginning of PoD, which is why she took so long getting back to the Tower.

[herid]

Yes, well, Taim seems to look for it after the Wells (in Perrin's PoV, ACoS), but it looks like he didn't find it.

It wasn't Taim, it was Rand who searched for it.

 

 

 

“Do you believe my enemies have been asleep while I was . . . away?” Rand had said suddenly as they stood waiting for Dashiva to open the gateway. He had on a coat rooted out of the wagons, well-cut green wool, but hardly what he usually wore now. Short of taking the coat off a Warder’s back or a cadin’sor from an Aielman, it was the only garment in the camp to fit him. Truth, you would have thought he insisted on silk and fine embroidery, the way he had had those wagons searched top to bottom, yesterday and this morning.

-CoS, Ch 3

 

and again later

The wagons that had been brought from Dumai’s Wells would have to be searched again. The fat-little-man angreal had to be there somewhere. None of the sisters who escaped could have had a clue what it was. Unless, perhaps, one had stuck a souvenir of the Dragon Reborn in her pouch. No. It had to be in the wagons somewhere. With that, he was more than a match for any of the Forsaken. Without it . . . Death, destruction and madness.

-CoS, Ch 7

 

If that's the case, I think our best bet is it being taken by one of the AS that wasn't captured (Katerine is a good option). Supposing that's the case, who would have it now? Well, Katerine took her time returning to the Tower, but I can't remember if it was before WH. Mesaana would probably end with it, which does suggest Demandred may have it. Perhaps he simply didn't get it in time for the Cleansing.

Katherine was captured, actually. She escaped in tPoD prologue and showed up again in CoT, prologue which is 9 days before the cleansing according to Steven Cooper's chronology.

However, it's hard to see how she'd have it. She was captive for a time and assuredly searched, especially with Rand looking for it.

[yoniy0]

You have me on Katerine (though the point stands), but:

 

It wasn't Taim, it was Rand who searched for it.

It wasn't only Taim, but he did seem to do it as well (all in mysterious looks between him and his lackeys).

[herid]

 

It wasn't only Taim, but he did seem to do it as well (all in mysterious looks between him and his lackeys).

I'm not sure what you mean about the mysterious looks. a quote please?

[Feral]

Yeah I just read CoS and I can't remember anything that made me think Taim was looking for it. I mean, even if he knew about it, how did he know Rand hadn't already found it and tucked it in his pocket?

 

I do remember some funny looks going on, but I thought that was just because of the tension triangle going on between the Ashaman, Aes Sedai and WOs.

[OptimusPrime]

I think it would be really cool if some random Darkfriend Ashaman took it from Dumais Wells. Just a random thought.

[Muad Cheade]

I don't have the book with me but basically Rochaid or Gedwyn comes from the wagons and shakes his head in response to Taim's questioning look. I believe that's pretty much correct.

 

It's usually taken as Taim searching for the angreal as well.

[Feral]

Oh I remember. Think I took it as them saying the Aes Sedai weren't going to cause any trouble though.

[yoniy0]

That's all it was, really:

When Rand and Min entered the wagon circle, most of the procession remained outside, though they hardly came alone, but with quite an assembly in its own right.

Taim shadowed Rand, of course, dark and slightly hooknosed and what Perrin supposed most women would consider good-looking. A number of the Maidens had certainly given him second looks, and third; they were forward about that sort of thing. As Taim stepped inside, he glanced to Gedwyn, who shook his head just a hair. A grimace flashed across Taim's face, gone as soon as it appeared.

But the best guess I've seen is that he asked them to look for it, and they failed. Of course, other interpretations are equally plausible.

[herid]

I don't have the book with me but basically Rochaid or Gedwyn comes from the wagons and shakes his head in response to Taim's questioning look. I believe that's pretty much correct.

 

It's usually taken as Taim searching for the angreal as well.

ah, yes, I found it

Taim shadowed Rand, of course, dark and slightly hook-nosed and what Perrin supposed most women would consider good-looking. A number of the Maidens had certainly given him second looks, and third; they were forward about that sort of thing. As Taim stepped inside, he glanced to Gedwyn, who shook his head just a hair. A grimace flashed across Taim’s face, gone as soon as it appeared.

-CoS, Ch2

 

This does look like Taim was searching too. That probably does eliminate him as a suspect along with Gedwyn and co. Makes it really hard to see who else it could possibly be.

 

 

yoniy0 beat me to it.

[mb]

Any Forsaken might have known about the angreal.

Mesaana was one that was involved with Rand's capture. Sammael speculates also Demandred & Semirhage.

The angreal might have latter been "surrendered" to Moridin after his resurrection.

Plenty of time between then & the Cleansing.

[Byzantine279]

Perhaps one of the Aes Sedai that escaped had it, and it later ended up with one of the forsaken, which seems most likely if it were to show up again. Though it could be a red herring and Rand is simply going to notice someone who has it in their pouch with no idea what it is, which seems just as likely as one of the forsaken or asha'man having it, considering the number of red herrings in the books intermingled with real hints.

[Mats Spare Hat]

Two bucks says, though completely unsupported by evidence or events, Pevara has it.

 

What's his face goes to her for help, they pal it up, they're overpowered & dreamspiked, chicky-cool whips out the goods, boom, game on.

 

Eh?...Eeeeehhh?

[Kal11]

Two bucks says, though completely unsupported by evidence or events, Pevara has it.

 

What's his face goes to her for help, they pal it up, they're overpowered & dreamspiked, chicky-cool whips out the goods, boom, game on.

 

Eh?...Eeeeehhh?

 

Lol. An Aes Sedai that was present at Dumai's Wells having the angreal (and possibly not realizing it) would be a plausible idea. Considering that Taim's followers are supposed to consist of the more powerful students mostly the good guys at the Black Tower are at a considerable disadvantage. Having the fat man angreal (or some other object of power)show up to give them some edge or allow for an Asha'man to do something heroic would make sense.

 

"What is that?" The Asha'man questioned as he pointed at the small object. It appeared to be a chubby man holding a sword across his lap.

 

"You mean Sam my lucky Buddha? I use him to hold down my cards during the Green Ajah hosted Friday night bingo. Isn't he cute?" The Red sister squealed cheerfully. She held up her good luck charm for inspection. "I have won like five jackpots since I found him. Want to rub his belly?"

 

"Sure, it can't hurt." The Asha'man replied stifling a laugh. There was no harm in humoring this ridiculous woman and her superstitions. As he stroked the small figurine his power grew tremendously, he felt far more saidin than he should be able to safely hold. The sensation caught him off guard at first.

 

"Do you have any idea what you are holding wench!?" The Ash'man demanded loudly as he realized what she held in her hand. He snatched the angreal away roughly and squeezed it hard in his hand. With this he would crush Taim's and his favorites while raining destruction down upon on all around him, he might even make himself M'hael. The power was intoxicating.

 

"What are you doing to Sam?" The Aes Sedai cried, tears clearly welling up in her eyes. "Give him back, he is mine!"

[Ogrelin]

Perhaps that Ashaman who is one hell of a gatemaker will end up with it? He was really weak in the power...

[herid]

Any Forsaken might have known about the angreal.

Mesaana was one that was involved with Rand's capture. Sammael speculates also Demandred & Semirhage.

Sammael is just speculating and he doesn't really know anything. In particular, Semirhage was pretty clearly not involved.

 

The angreal might have latter been "surrendered" to Moridin after his resurrection.

Plenty of time between then & the Cleansing.

"surrendered" to Moridin? why would any of the Forsaken do that?! They've all been looking for any angreal they could find and showed zero desire to "surrender" those they found.

 

Though it could be a red herring and Rand is simply going to notice someone who has it in their pouch with no idea what it is, which seems just as likely as one of the forsaken or asha'man having it, considering the number of red herrings in the books intermingled with real hints.

oh, come one. where is my precious angreal? oh, there it is, behind the couch! this would be the lamest development ever. RJ would never do that. I'm sure there is a much more interesting story behind it.

[FarShainMael]

ISTR that Rand spent some time in a cage, shielded by those 6 AS, before he was carted off to TV (LoC51). When he was captured he was wearing his red silk coat, and a note in EncWoT presumes the LFM was in a pocket. Later in the cage, the coat is not mentioned, but I can't believe they would have allowed him to keep it; indeed a second note mentions this. The red silk coat - with LFM in pocket - may well be still in the Grand Hall of the Sun Palace in Cairhien, or been tidied away into the rooms he was using there. Perhaps Elayne will find it there!

[herid]

If the coat was left behind that would be noticed right away and Rand's kidnapping discovered. His kidnappers would never risk something like that. It is never mentioned that they removed his coat while taking him. And he would certainly notice if they did. Yet he searched for the angreal in the wagons.

[FarShainMael]

Rand may well have thought along those lines, and thought that they had taken the coat with them for that reason.

 

As it happened, it took the Palace residents a while even to notice that he'd gone. If he'd dropped his coat on the floor they wouldn't have queried it any more than they queried his absence.

[herid]

Rand may well have thought along those lines, and thought that they had taken the coat with them for that reason.

 

As it happened, it took the Palace residents a while even to notice that he'd gone. If he'd dropped his coat on the floor they wouldn't have queried it any more than they queried his absence.

The maidens guarding the doors looked in immediately after the Aes Sedai left. If they saw his coat lying around they would have found it very strange and might have raised an alarm. The kidnappers would not remove his coat and leave it there for the maidens to find. That would be a pointless act risking that an alarm would be raised as the result.

 

Whatever happened it was definitely not that.

[LemonPastie]

Could it have been left in the manor that he was held in for a few days? What is happening in that house now?

[herid]

Could it have been left in the manor that he was held in for a few days? What is happening in that house now?

good question. I have no idea. I don't think that house was ever mentioned after Rand was rescued.

[Kaznen]

I don't think Katerine could have had it. All the AS da'stang had all their possessions destroyed except for their serpent rings.

 

And as far as the forsaken speculating that Rand has an angreal....

 

That would be like wondering if the guy with a M4 and Desert Eagle has a pocket knife. Why would they worry about a weak angreal when he has the two most powerful sa'angreal that could be used by a man.