Perrin, the tinkers, The DO, and "the song"

[Isahn]

hey guys just recently started my 1st re-read of the series and something caught my eye in the prologue of The Great Hunt. When Bors is scanning the crowd at the palace, he sees a tinker with a black veil on just like everyone else. What on earth would a tinker be doing at a place like this?

 

I was just wondering if the reason that the tinkers took to Perrin so openly and quickly, was because of the tinker seeing Perrin's image at that meeting in Shaoul Guhl. Perhaps the tinker thought that by assisting the D.O. that they would somehow be presented with "the Song" they seek? And for that matter, who was the black-vieled Tinker?

 

Thoughts?

[Tynaal Consen]

Knowing the image of Darkfriends, it could simply be included to emphasize how they are everywhere (even in the most peace loving folk).

 

With the Tinkers taking Perrin in so easily, wasn't it because they were travelling together with Elyas?

[Durinax]

Knowing the image of Darkfriends, it could simply be included to emphasize how they are everywhere (even in the most peace loving folk).

 

With the Tinkers taking Perrin in so easily, wasn't it because they were travelling together with Elyas?

it was because Elyas and Raen (the seeker) knew each other and where familiar with each other

[Barid Bel Medar]

I am not sure if it has anything to do with Raen or anyone that we ahve actually met, but knowing the WoT, I would not dismiss something like this as simply detail.

 

It is most likely that something as strange as a Tinker DF (how would that even work?) is somehow important.

 

COuld it have something to do with the Tinkers that got slaughtered and the whole "tell the Dragon Reborn..." thing?

[yoniy0]

A DF tinker would be like a BA - doesn't really believe what regular AS do but pretends to nonetheless. Just how one such could get away with murder I don't know, but presumably folks go missing from time to time

 

It can't have anything to do with Perrin's first meeting with the Traveling People because that was before Ishamael showed everyone Perrin's face.

[mb]

The Darkfriend gathering I take occurred while the 3 taveren were at Fal Dara.

The 3 taveren at Fal Dara was after Perrin's traveling with the Tinkers.

 

The current books do not reveal the Darkfriend Tinker. Nor has either author.

I take the "who" would remain a mystery; also for most of the darkfriends mentioned in the chapter.

[JamesL85]

I'm working through the books (again), taking tons of notes and found something I never noticed before. Rand is outside the Stag and Lion and Min comes up behind him and starts to tell about her ability. She says:

 

The strongest thing I see about the big, curly-haired fellow are a wolf, and a broken crown, and trees flowering all around him.

 

Not sure if this has been brought up before, but when I did a search on "the song," most of the stuff was in the Social Groups forums.

 

James

[herid]

I'm working through the books (again), taking tons of notes and found something I never noticed before. Rand is outside the Stag and Lion and Min comes up behind him and starts to tell about her ability. She says:

 

The strongest thing I see about the big, curly-haired fellow are a wolf, and a broken crown, and trees flowering all around him.

 

Not sure if this has been brought up before, but when I did a search on "the song," most of the stuff was in the Social Groups forums.

 

James

I'm not sure of your point on this one. are you suggesting that Perrin will have something to do with finding the Song that the Tinkers have been searching for?

[JamesL85]

I think it's a possibility. Min's visions are never wrong and we haven't seen anything about Perrin so far that has to do with trees flowering all around him. There's also a strange one about Mat, but that doesn't have anything to do with the title of this thread.

 

James

[mahmed37]

Has anyone else come to the conclusion that Aram may have been a the darkfriend mentioned in TGH. I looked it over and they both are wearing similar clothing. Coincidence? or was this RJ giving us a hint as to the identity of the masked tinker darkfriend.

[herid]

I think it's a possibility. Min's visions are never wrong and we haven't seen anything about Perrin so far that has to do with trees flowering all around him. There's also a strange one about Mat, but that doesn't have anything to do with the title of this thread.

 

James

The thing is that there is no such thing as the Song. It refers to the abilities of the Aiel to enhance channeling with singing in AoL. But there is nothing to find in the current world. Rand with his full LTT memories might teach the technique to the Aiel but Perrin would not know anything about it. also, Perrin's singing abilities are described as follows

More joined in on the second verse, until everyone sang, even Ihvon. And Faile. Not Perrin, of course; he had been told often enough that he sounded like a stepped-on frog, singing.

-TSR, Ch 42

So I don't see Perrin having anything to do with finding the Song. But Min's viewing about trees flowering around Perrin is an interesting one. I don't think it has come to pass. There is one suspect moment when Perrin tries to fix things in TAR at the end of ToM by imposing his will on them but I'm pretty sure that's not it. I suspect that this will happen after the LB is over and might be related to the fact that Perrin is largely based on the Slavic god Perun who among other things was a fertility god.

[WhiskyJack]

Has anyone else come to the conclusion that Aram may have been a the darkfriend mentioned in TGH. I looked it over and they both are wearing similar clothing. Coincidence? or was this RJ giving us a hint as to the identity of the masked tinker darkfriend.

 

 

We know for fact that Aram was no DF. All tinkers wear same clothing.

[JamesL85]

I suspect that this will happen after the LB is over and might be related to the fact that Perrin is largely based on the Slavic god Perun who among other things was a fertility god.

 

I like your article there, very good stuff. Again, I wasn't saying that he *would* find the song (I know, it doesn't exist....LOL), I just found her vision interesting, one that has not been fulfilled, AFAIK.

 

Do you know of a place that lists all her visions and their meanings? That will possibly keep me from posting something wrong again....LOL

 

James

[MarkDiLillo]

I really doubt the Tinkers will ever find their song. The whole thing about them isn't that they were really searching for their song, but they were actually just abandoning their duties in search of their own personal happiness and desires. This morphed into a weird religion of looking for their song. They really are just the losers of the story, and the reason they're not going to find their song (unless in an afterthought at the end of the series) is that they have done nothing to deserve redemption. They literally are just the scum of the Aiel from the old days.

[WhiskyJack]

I think the tinker song is same song "tree brother" Loial was singing or atleast it is one of the "lost songs".

[Canis Rufus]

I really doubt the Tinkers will ever find their song. The whole thing about them isn't that they were really searching for their song, but they were actually just abandoning their duties in search of their own personal happiness and desires. This morphed into a weird religion of looking for their song. They really are just the losers of the story, and the reason they're not going to find their song (unless in an afterthought at the end of the series) is that they have done nothing to deserve redemption. They literally are just the scum of the Aiel from the old days.

 

 

I disagree with your assumption here. The Tinkers are the closest thing to ‘original’ duties in the story. For fear of casting spoilers I will digress but they are living by the code as they were supposed to contrary to what passes for Aeil now. You really walked away with a different point of view of that story line.

[MarkDiLillo]

I really doubt the Tinkers will ever find their song. The whole thing about them isn't that they were really searching for their song, but they were actually just abandoning their duties in search of their own personal happiness and desires. This morphed into a weird religion of looking for their song. They really are just the losers of the story, and the reason they're not going to find their song (unless in an afterthought at the end of the series) is that they have done nothing to deserve redemption. They literally are just the scum of the Aiel from the old days.

 

 

I disagree with your assumption here. The Tinkers are the closest thing to ‘original’ duties in the story. For fear of casting spoilers I will digress but they are living by the code as they were supposed to contrary to what passes for Aeil now. You really walked away with a different point of view of that story line.

 

Yes, they are living by the code. But the Way of the Leaf is not what made the Aiel what they were. Their service to the Aes Sedai is what made the Aiel. Even the modern day Aiel kept that service after a fashion as they have guarded Rhuidean and followed the Aes Sedai's path for them for 3000 years - and they guarded the Jenn Aiel while themselves being the descendants of the Jenn. The Tinkers are the Aiel who gave up and quit in pursuit of their own pleasures. They have no redeeming qualities that suggest they will ever find their song and get redemption. They don't even play a part in the story - they are looked down upon by people everywhere and are hated by many (especially the Aiel).

 

The Tinkers, while they might be nice guys and good people in the modern day Randland, really represent the scum of the Aiel. They are called Lost Ones for a reason. They will never find their song. Their song is a metaphor for their search for happiness because they are discontent with their role in life and have given up all responsibilities in an aimless search for something unknown that has a promise of being better. The Tinkers really are Lost, and there is no special song that they will find that will appease them. Even if the songs of the AoL return, the Tinkers will still search.

 

The only way they'll find their song is if RJ just wants to make everyone feel good in a happy ending that mentions "and the Tinkers finally found their song and everyone lived happily ever after." And we all know the chances of an ending like that are slim.

[herid]

I suspect that this will happen after the LB is over and might be related to the fact that Perrin is largely based on the Slavic god Perun who among other things was a fertility god.

 

I like your article there, very good stuff. Again, I wasn't saying that he *would* find the song (I know, it doesn't exist....LOL), I just found her vision interesting, one that has not been fulfilled, AFAIK.

 

Do you know of a place that lists all her visions and their meanings? That will possibly keep me from posting something wrong again....LOL

 

James

encyclopedia wot is a good place to see the full list of all viewings, prophecies etc. WoT wiki is another one. as for their meaning, none of the fan created sites should be viewed as ultimate authority on the subject. anything you see there is just the opinion of the creators of those sites.

 

 

 

I really doubt the Tinkers will ever find their song. The whole thing about them isn't that they were really searching for their song, but they were actually just abandoning their duties in search of their own personal happiness and desires. This morphed into a weird religion of looking for their song. They really are just the losers of the story, and the reason they're not going to find their song (unless in an afterthought at the end of the series) is that they have done nothing to deserve redemption. They literally are just the scum of the Aiel from the old days.

I wouldn't describe the tinkers as the scum of the Aiel. Both the Aiel and the Tinkers abandoned their old ways in one way or the other. I don't think it's really important who did it to a greater degree. The Tinkers do keep the Way of the leaf which was an important part of what the Aiel were in AoL. There is plenty of evidence in the books that this will play a role in the future. Rand visits Tinkers in VoG and thinks about them and their ways, Egwene visits the tinker camp in TAR at the end of tGS too. There are many other small hints.

And I'm quite sure that the Aiel will have to go back to the way of the leaf in some form after the LB, rather than remain a warrior society dedicated to war. The main goal of Avi's visions in Rhuidean was to show her that the Aiel need to change.

 

Lastly, on the subject of the Song, as I said, I see Rand possibly teaching the technique to Aiel. he certainly knows it from LTT memories. LTT mentioned it in tEoTW prologue. And it looks like the ability to enhance channeling with singing might be related to the way of the leaf too. in AoL the main "singers" were the extreme pacifists: the Aiel, the Ogier and the Nym.

[Ingtar Shinowa]

I was hoping it would involve Perrin having Loial (and others) plant a grove in Emond's Field.

[yoniy0]

But the Way of the Leaf is not what made the Aiel what they were. Their service to the Aes Sedai is what made the Aiel.

Actually, the last order they ever received from those AS who deserved their loyalty was this:

"Keep the Covenant, Jonai. If the Da’shain lose everything else, see they keep the Way of the Leaf. Promise me."

[Terez]

Ji'e'toh is what makes the Aiel, and what was probably behind the First Covenant in the first place. It was behind the Way, and it was behind the change to a fighting society.

[herid]

Ji'e'toh is what makes the Aiel, and what was probably behind the First Covenant in the first place. It was behind the Way, and it was behind the change to a fighting society.

There is no evidence of Ji'e'toh existing in AoL. Rand sees no evidence of it in his visions in Rhuidean. BWB never mentions it either. Avi comments on it in a way too after her own trip to Rhuidean.

 

She had been surprised to see how mundane—almost accidental—the true event had been. No grand decision; only a man who had been unwilling

to let his family be murdered. There was honor in wanting to defend others, but he had not approached his decision with honor.

-ToM, Ch 48

 

 

BTW, to expand on the quote that yoniy0 gave

 

“Keep the Covenant, Jonai. If the Da’shain lose everything else, see they keep the Way of the Leaf. Promise me.”

 

“Of course, Aes Sedai,” he said, shocked. The Covenant was the Aiel, and the Aiel were the Covenant; to abandon the Way would be to abandon what they were. Coumin was an aberration. He had been strange since he was a boy, it was said, hardly Aiel at all, though no one knew why.

-TSR, Ch26

Ji'e'toh is likely something that developed later, during the Aiel years in the Waste.