The Black Tower and Rand

[Seeker Matt]

Does anyone have any thoughts on why Rand basically left the Black Tower to Taim?

 

It just seems a little nonsensical to me that while Rand was going on the whole "don't trust anyone" trip he decided it would be a smart idea to 'trust' Taim with the gathering and teaching of hundreds of male channelers without any kind of supervision whatsoever.

 

I guess I just find it a little jarring with his other actions and priorities throughout his journey. Even with the knowledge of the AoL, a single Forsaken or even several working together would seem to me to be much less of a threat than hundreds of extremely dubious Asha'man. He shows that is is quite capable of sophisticated strategy but then he apparently completely neglects [and by doing so, possibly gifting it to the shadow] such a potent resource.

 

Perhaps I misread the sections on the Black Tower, but my understanding was that it was all but dominated by Taim and his minions.

[mb]

In the beginning stages, Taim was the only one available to teach the Ashamen.

And by the time Taim needed to be dealt with, Rand became busy.

[Terez]

Also, he mistrusted Taim, and didn't like him, and there was a little voice inside his head screaming logic things, like 'KILL HIM', so it was easier for Rand to just stay away.

[Elan Tedronai]

rand did not become busy. He basically gave **** all about the black tower. hell even logain was telling him that the situation was becoming bad but rand was too busy running around looking for kings and deals. In real world such a leader would be fired or worse.

 

You don't leave the most powerful fighting force in the land to a someone as shady as taim. Especially when his most trusted cronies tried to kill you. The last time rand al thor visited the black tower was 7 books ago. As a result now we have had really tough people like tarna turned to the shadow not to mention the hundreds of dreadlords.

[Terez]

It wasn't that he didn't care. He just has serious denial issues. This one was pretty bad, but the Lews Therin situation was the worst (and had a lot to do with his fear of dealing with Taim).

[SethBaker]

I ask this question a lot, but I think that Terez has the right of it. He thought that Lews Therin was being crazy, when he was actually talking sense. So he stayed away, when he should have listened to the voices that told him to kill people.

[Terez]

He didn't like the way he felt around Taim in particular...he thought it was paranoia, and a sign of madness (and he was trying to deny to himself that he was going insane). So he convinced himself he had more important fish to fry.

[Cybertrolloc]

It's easy to Monday morning dragon, and at least sort of addressed in ToM if random posts I've read here can be believed (though that part is up in the air) :) Granted the CoT/KoD Logain/Rand conversations don't help.

 

It's also easy to ignore how little time passes in later books compared to earlier and difficult to figure out what Rand knows when. And probably will continue to be so after AMoL. We're talking like 8 months from early KoD to present after all, Taim's been effective (perhaps suspiciously so lol), but the oozing evil can be seen as a bit for our benefit.

 

On the dissatisfied reader side, I think it's hinted that all Taim/Rand interaction is covered on screen (the handful of visits in LoC, messages both written and oral until Logain given his message way back when).

 

So in conclusion, reelect Taim in 1001. (The smear campaign commercials just write themselves: Logain, captured by Aes Sedai and held in the White Tower for a whole year, how can we trust him? etc...)

[Muad Cheade]

Actually, Rand was busy. Immediately after Taim was sent to be the leader, he wooed both towers, was kidnapped by one, led the invasion of Illian, quelled the rebellion in Cairhien, and was nearly killed by Fain.

 

Taim was the only one who could teach other male channelers. Rand couldn't. Not enough time. For all his faults, Taim has done a good job.

[Zentari]

He didn't like the way he felt around Taim in particular...he thought it was paranoia, and a sign of madness (and he was trying to deny to himself that he was going insane). So he convinced himself he had more important fish to fry.

Let's put it even better; Would you or anyone else go close to the man when said voice can seize Saidin from you ?I know I would give him a WIDE slip.

[jballer08]

Plus it will most likely be an essential plot element for the close of the story. The Wheel weaves...

[David Selig]

It's still really stupid that Rand didn't make any effort to investigate what was going on in the BT until ToM. He didn't have to go there directly, he could've send spies, or questioned to the Asha'man about it, etc. It really stretches plausibility for me that even after Taim's top henchmen tried to kill him and Logain told him something really fishy was going on in there, he still did nothing for months and didn't even think about the BT.

[plague fiend]

Rand made many cunning, strategic decisions while insane. This fact doesn't make it plausible that he would leave an army of Ashaman under the supervision of any one or two people, and without close personal scrutiny, for any reason. Rand has been busy, but one is never too busy to maintain a machine of destruction, especially one that by itself could destroy the world as they know it.

[Feral]

Also, he mistrusted Taim, and didn't like him, and there was a little voice inside his head screaming logic things, like 'KILL HIM', so it was easier for Rand to just stay away.

 

Add to that the fact that Rand is actually a little afraid of Taim, enough for Perrin to smell it I seem to believe.

[Guest PiotrekS]

Rand was simply overloaded and therefore made some rational decisions, some irrational ones and sometimes he made no decisions at all.

 

When you put too large a workload on one person. it is inevitable that said person will screw up some things.

[Lupy]

I think that this is really an issue of Rand not being able to do everying, and that he had no one else who could do the job. I only wish that Logain had become a bigger character.

[Guest PiotrekS]

What Rand should have done is contantly send various Asha'man away from BT, also keep many more of them with him. That would have prevented Taim from having a stable group of followers, because he would have to deal with an ever-changing group.

 

Also he should keep them connected to himself by keeping all decisions on rank etc. to himself, even if he would have to act on Taim's advice as to who has made what progress.

 

That demanded some physical and mental resources that Rand simply didn't have.

[Elan Tedronai]

Rand's too worried or too scared to go and check out the BT? LOL. The guy has had the choedan kal and callandor for the better part of 6 books. Infact he has a whole faction that is loyal to him who in turn are loyal to logain too. Countless wise ones and Aes sedai support. Strength in numbers is not an issue for the DR.

 

 

Because of rand pussyfooting around one my fave characters tarna has been turned to the shadow. Unforgiveable. He went all the way to far madin place just to hunt out and kill those taim cronies. But he could not spare a minute to check on the BT.

[Feral]

Rand's too worried or too scared to go and check out the BT? LOL. The guy has had the choedan kal and callandor for the better part of 6 books. Infact he has a whole faction that is loyal to him who in turn are loyal to logain too. Countless wise ones and Aes sedai support. Strength in numbers is not an issue for the DR.

 

Unfortunately, fear does not always listen to logic. And the fact that Rand knows his fear of Taim IS rather irrational probably increases the fear itself.

[Seeker Matt]

Thanks for those who have posted; some of the explanations in your responses have made Rand's inaction slightly more digestible but I still find it annoyingly less than plausible. As Josh Sedai says, I fear it was just necessary for some kind of event,/confrontation as yet unknown.

 

It's slightly off topic but kind of relevant: Why did Rand destroy the Choedan Kal? Surely an light-sided Asha'man could have made devastating use of it? It seems have echoes of the implausibility of Rand's inaction towards the Black Tower.

[Vassili]

Rand isn't afraid of Taim: he is afraid of himself. On two ocasions when he comes in contact with Taim, Lews Therin almost seizes control, once with near disasterous consequences (the seal). While Rand is not normally foolish, he has been trying to deny his growing insanity for the last 7 books now. In fact, I would argue his denial is a form of insanity in itself. Seeing Taim brings out the worst in LTT, and Rand is afraid of being confronted with his instability again. While Taim can't possibly know about LTT, I think he does sense that Rand would rather avoid him. So, he gives Rand no immediate reason to question his loyalty, and in turn Rand takes advantage of this to legitimize avoiding Taim. Its a case of "out of sight, out of mind". Given the nature of Rand's insanity, I don't find the situation that unbelievable.

[SethBaker]

Thanks for those who have posted; some of the explanations in your responses have made Rand's inaction slightly more digestible but I still find it annoyingly less than plausible. As Josh Sedai says, I fear it was just necessary for some kind of event,/confrontation as yet unknown.

 

It's slightly off topic but kind of relevant: Why did Rand destroy the Choedan Kal? Surely an light-sided Asha'man could have made devastating use of it? It seems have echoes of the implausibility of Rand's inaction towards the Black Tower.

 

It's not necessary (the Prophecies speak of him using Callandor), and it's able to be used in devastating fashion, as you pointed out. It's too much. It's dangerous.

[Zentari]

 

It's slightly off topic but kind of relevant: Why did Rand destroy the Choedan Kal? Surely an light-sided Asha'man could have made devastating use of it? It seems have echoes of the implausibility of Rand's inaction towards the Black Tower.

Because it is a game breaker.Can you imagine what damage a darkfriend could inflict with it ? Good.

 

Now let's take a look after the last battle; light wins , someone in the BT or the BT (ala angreal in the WT) itself inherits the control statue.All it takes is for one Ashaman to gather enough influence and then he can build his own empire ala Hawkwing in days.Heck, he can make it better if you start throwing suggestion weaves and other stuff into the mix....

[Muad Cheade]

In regards to the Choedan Kal:

1). He cannot use it to fight the Dark One. Callandor is needed for that.

 

2). There is always the risk of the Shadow gaining position of it, as evidenced by the ease they obtained the Domination Band/Sad Bracelet.

 

3). Merely using the Choedan Kal alerts every male channeler to his location (depending on the amount used however).

 

4). Rand will not use it during Tarmon Gai'din. He must use Callandor with two others. There is no one else Rand would trust with that much power. Logain is a false dragon and has his own motives. Damer? Sandomere? Narishma? We know less about them than we do of Logain. Perhaps it is possible since Randhi can now apparently see the souls of others. Indoubt it though.

[Elan Tedronai]

I have said it once and i have said it again. the kal has been destroyed because using them would make AMOL the most boring book in the history of anything. The kal in the hands of a guy like logain would practically render each and every minion of the great lord completely useless. The last battle would be a 5 minute procession walk. destroying the kal gives the chance of battles to happen.

 

 

Ofcourse the author had to come up with an excuse. You don't simply destroy a tool that cleansed saidin without an excuse. So they have come up with......ITS TOO DANGEROUS TO USE! Apparently not dangerous enough to cleanse saidin with it. With the kal thousands of lives could be saved from the hordes of trollocs, fades, draghars and whatever te blight releases. ALl those poor bordermen at those towers would be chilling and smoking whilst blast after blast from the mightiest sangreal hits the blight. Hell a whole barrier can be erected if someone was feeling a bit humane to the poor trollocs

 

 

 

But hey where's the action in that? SOmetimes you gotta give the bad guys a chance. Which is why i think it's not entirely rand's fault for ignoring the BT. It's the author who steered it in that directiuon. Clearly RJ was looking for something to blow up and he practically gave it away in book 7 when elaida had her fortelling of BT will be rent in fire and blood. And the only way that foretelling was going to happen is for rand to completely ignore the BT long enough for the shadow to do their machinations.