[Advanced Mafia] Black Ajah - GAME OVER!

[Blackhoof]

interesting, berf has made some blatant contradictions just now. why would you contradict yourself so much? berf has never seemed to me to be an erratic player, so this seems suspicious.

 

more suspicious than wombat at least.

[berf]

If my posts are all over the place, it could be due to the fact that I don't play this game very often, and tend to just spew vitriolic my current thoughts and feelings. As I said, my vote for Blackhoof is due to the fact that his Day One actions seem very scummy, and his posts since then can be a little ...agreeable? From memory, he jumps on other's reasons, though I could be wrong there.

 

Blatant contradictions?

 

I don't think so.

 

I voted Phelix because, again from memory, he talked from a POV like he KNEW the scum were organised into groups of 3, rather than perhaps assumed it. It wasn't that fact that he was stating it, it was -how- he was stating it that tipped me over. Plus, day one reasoning, yada yada.

 

I'm town. I assure you, you do not want to lynch me. If you do, I at least ask you put a DAMN lot of thought into it, and look at who is REALLY being sus, rather than having semi-questionable reasoning to cast a day one vote, plus offering info and thoughts that I think might help the town. As I said above, Blackhoof is still pinging off the charts for me, so I implore you to put both of us side by side if it comes to it.

 

And also, when you go back and micro-analyse every post of mine in this thread, keep in mind I'm pretty casual about this whole thing. I roll with it. If I say some stuff that doesn't make sense? Ask me. I'm cool with that.

[bgrishinko]

interesting, berf has made some blatant contradictions just now. why would you contradict yourself so much? berf has never seemed to me to be an erratic player, so this seems suspicious.

 

more suspicious than wombat at least.

 

 

If my posts are all over the place, it could be due to the fact that I don't play this game very often, and tend to just spew vitriolic my current thoughts and feelings. As I said, my vote for Blackhoof is due to the fact that his Day One actions seem very scummy, and his posts since then can be a little ...agreeable? From memory, he jumps on other's reasons, though I could be wrong there.

 

 

I agree with Berf's reasoning for the day 1 vote, but like Blackhoof notes there are contradictions here. I'm willing to give Berfs the benefit of the doubt for now and assume that he simply had a slip of the tongue later on. But I'm going to keep an eye out on Berf for the remainder of the day. I'm not opposed to switching votes here if needed.

 

I too on catch-up reading thought Blackhoof seemed a bit scummy so I'll leave my vote for now. Of course my opinions of you Blackhoof are still sour from the last game we were in together Lady Suroth. *Shakes fist madly* It might wear off after a while.

[Blackhoof]

i jumpon others reasons, berf, because i have not yet developed the skills for forming my own cases. this is my first town game, the other three i was mafia, which meant that i didnt have to form cases- i could just sit back, relax and allow my scummates to direct my vote toward a good target :P

 

this time i am town, and i have nothing to go with but others reasons.

[Krakalakachkn]

I agree with Berf's reasoning for the day 1 vote, but like Blackhoof notes there are contradictions here. I'm willing to give Berfs the benefit of the doubt for now and assume that he simply had a slip of the tongue later on. But I'm going to keep an eye out on Berf for the remainder of the day. I'm not opposed to switching votes here if needed.

 

I too on catch-up reading thought Blackhoof seemed a bit scummy so I'll leave my vote for now. Of course my opinions of you Blackhoof are still sour from the last game we were in together Lady Suroth. *Shakes fist madly* It might wear off after a while.

 

Sounds like a scum teammate attempting to defend an ally to me. He also neatly places a vote of Blackhoof who, coincidentally, Berf has also placed his vote upon.

[berf]

I don't think it's coincidence Krak. A few people have fingered Blackhoof.

[berf]

Further to that, I don't think he has actually placed his vote? Could be wrong.

 

I don't want to start screaming YOUR TRYING TO HARD TO MAKE A CASE because I think you are town and don't want everyone jumping, but seriously, seriously, barking up the wrong tree here.

 

I -implore- you, even if I do end up lynched, just take a damn good look at others, Blackhoof included, before getting rid of me. Hell, discount Blackhoof merely because I've voted for him if you like, but I don't want Berf-related blindness to obscure the view of the real BA.

[csarmi]

Berf, I can really smypathize with your view - to an extent. I understand that you're just lurking around and when you think you have something useful to add, you do. In that case, however, would it be too much to ask to put a little more thought in it?

 

Until the BA was lynched, I think we all sort of assumed one group of 3 BA, I know I did anyway, so it could have been a brilliant tactic, until they shot the wrong dude :P

 

I mean, are you serious?

1) First of all, when did we all assume that BA groups consist of 3 members? I can buy the reasoning since it's so very logical both for game-reasons and rpg reasons but still. Did we assume it before or after we lynched Phelix for pointing it out? But that's not the point.

2) You wanna tell me that we would assume that there is one group of scum consisting of three members and nothing more? I won't say I'm an expert on game balance, but only 1/6 of the players Maffia, while everyone is in a group (so everyone has confirmed alignments of at least a few players)?

 

Also, with one BA down, would that mean that hypothetically (in a team of three), it only requires -two- of them to make a nightkill now?

 

Ask Alanna?

Or did you feel it was something important to point out? If so, why?

 

From what I read here, you're only sowing confusion. I might be wrong, but I can't see how you're helping town now.

[csarmi]

Further to that, I don't think he [bG] has actually placed his vote? Could be wrong.

 

[..]

To put on the pressure for now I'll Vote Blackhoof

 

So BG does have his vote on Blackhoof. Took me like 10 posts to go back. Now effort again. Couldn't you have done that?

 

I -implore- you, even if I do end up lynched, just take a damn good look at others, Blackhoof included, before getting rid of me.

 

Wouldn't that be your job?

Why so defensive? I understand that you are a townie. Act like it. Read the thread, make some good case on someone. Help us figure out whom to vote and why. You don't even have several votes on you yet so what's the fuss.

 

Now as I've alreeady gone back to count votes, here's an

 

Unofficial Vote Count

 

Blackhoof (5) - Red, Berf, leelou, BG (Tynaal), CurtDragon

Song (1) - Wombat

Drew (2) - Krak, Meesh

Wombat (1) - Blackhoof

Berf (1) - Talmanes

 

Not Voting (6): Aust, Song, Player, Drew, csarmi, Thorum

 

I hope it does add up. I'd like to point out that Krak didn't unvote Drew so his vote is still there, I suppose. I'm not saying that was intentional, or has any implications, it's just something I caught when trying to count. Please note that why I've tried to do my best here, I cannot guarantee I didn't make a mistake somewhere.

[Red2111]

Aust - i still find your reaction interesting; but right now the discussion seems to be more a distraction than a benefit. i'm not letting you off the hook by any means, but i agree we should leave it for later; especially with 3 good scum candidates in the spot light right now.

 

 

If he agreed with the 3 thing, then why would he use that as his main reasoning for being the FIRST vote on someone. To me his post now is trying to back out of the lynch he started on Phelix, and appear innocent. These two posts to me, are a complete contradiction.

 

^^ this. i'd be willing to switch my vote to berf to get a majority, but i still think theres more for a lynch in Blackie. Drew is another perosn i'd be wiling to vote today, for the reasons Mmeesh pointed out in post #274

[Aust]

Berf you keep saying "blackhoof is scummy" but I don't see you cite anything specific he did to make you arrive at that conclusion. If you did outline those reasons previously, forgive me - I must have missed them - but if you're basing your vote off the tone of his posts, I think you're going to want something more substantial to go on.

 

Also, I don't think we're allowed to reveal alignment according to the rules in the OP, so I find it very suspicious that you're declaring yourself so strongly as town. That reads like an emotional defense that has no substance to it. "believe me - I'm town! Blackhoof is scum!"

 

You're capable of much better argument. You do justify your contradictions as random vitriol but again you're a more clever person than that. Right now I think the scum are trying to stir up as much confusion as they can.

 

Vote Berf

[WWWwombat]

Finally, a train I am satisfied with.

 

unvote

 

Vote Berf

[Krakalakachkn]

methinks I forgot to unvote, so

 

uvnote

 

Vote Berf

[Alanna]

Vote Count:

Blackhoof (5) - Red, Berf, leelou, BG, Curt

Drew (1) - Meesh

Wombat (1) - Blackhoof

Berf (4) - Talmanes, Aust, Wombat, Krak

 

Not Voting (5): Song, Player, Drew, csarmi, AJ

 

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

[Alanna]

MODSPEAK: I'm sorry, let me clarify - of course you can reveal alignment because, um, everyone wil say they are town. LOL. I think what I meant was, no revealing what team you are on. Which you already know.

[Talmanes]

Honestly, I think if not for Berfs, Blackhoof would be as good a vote as any, but with Blackhoof, he is just being erratic. Now that was enough to earn my day one vote, but I think something more substantial like what has been pointed out about Berfs is much more deserving of a Day 2 vote, than just 'Well he was weird on Day 1'.

[berf]

So to clarify, what's the case against me?

[berf]

Thats an open question, by the way, not to anyone specific.

[Red2111]

Berf's at L-5, i want to see his reaction before comming to any conclusion about the situation. i do think it's interesting how fast his wagon built, versus the slowness of the wagon on Blackie though. atm, i'm still more inclined to vote for Blackie

 

 

[csarmi]

This is getting very interesting. I suppose we should be able to learn much from a pair of trains so it's supposed to be good, right?

 

I think we should proceed with caution, however, should be best to hear from everyone, especially the non-voters.

 

Yea I'm a non-voter too.

 

Well I kind of prefer Berf right now, he certainly didn't convince me.

 

Blackhoof has looked scummy for me for quite a while now, but I just can't put my finger on it and I'm yet to see a really good case against him. Maybe it's just the propaganda effect, him having mentioned so much as a scum candidate? Well, he seems to speak a lot, at least so if he is indeed scum, he'll hang himself (hopefully :P)

 

Drew: I don't understand the argument against him. For some reason I really bookmarked him as townie, but I'll take another look. I'll have some casing to catch up with I suppose. Or can someone enlighten me what the point is?

 

With that, I'm also doing a bigger re-read.

 

Oh and one thing, Red is really pinging me with all those walls of texts and all that talk of how the game setup might be based on the opening post and especially with all that talk during the night.

 

Is it only me, or one playing with her always feels like that? I'm yet to experience that and I'm a bit biased as she has been my mentor so I don't think I can judge clearly.

 

With all that said, even though we are in no hurry, I think I should back up my words with my votes (something I have been advised to do in my games), so I'll vote Berf

[DrewRiley]

Vote Berf

 

Three reasons, all conveniently located in this post (my reasons in blue):

 

If my posts are all over the place, it could be due to the fact that I don't play this game very often, and tend to just spew vitriolic my current thoughts and feelings.

 

Playing the newbie card, not always a scum tell, but a pretty good one. PS doesn't matter that you really are a newbie.

 

As I said, my vote for Blackhoof is due to the fact that his Day One actions seem very scummy, and his posts since then can be a little ...agreeable? From memory, he jumps on other's reasons, though I could be wrong there.

 

Blatant contradictions?

 

I don't think so.

 

I voted Phelix because, again from memory, he talked from a POV like he KNEW the scum were organised into groups of 3, rather than perhaps assumed it. It wasn't that fact that he was stating it, it was -how- he was stating it that tipped me over. Plus, day one reasoning, yada yada.

 

I didn't realize this until now, but berf probably DID think Phelix was scum for this reason - because Phelix was close to or dead on with the truth! Berf saw Phelix say "teams of three," thought, "my scum team has three people on it, Phelix must be on the other scum team!" and placed his vote accordingly.

 

I'm town. I assure you, you do not want to lynch me. If you do, I at least ask you put a DAMN lot of thought into it, and look at who is REALLY being sus, rather than having semi-questionable reasoning to cast a day one vote, plus offering info and thoughts that I think might help the town. As I said above, Blackhoof is still pinging off the charts for me, so I implore you to put both of us side by side if it comes to it.

 

Appeal to emotion/deflection. Berf getting a little paranoid.

 

And also, when you go back and micro-analyse every post of mine in this thread, keep in mind I'm pretty casual about this whole thing. I roll with it. If I say some stuff that doesn't make sense? Ask me. I'm cool with that.

 

Of course this isn't set in stone or anything, but reading this post raised flags for me all over the place. Until I hear something satisfying, my vote's on berf.

[CurtisScafe]

I dont get it, I was town last game and when they accused me I reacted by asking what the reasons I was pinged as scummy. No one had reasons but the chaos monger lead the charge as was wrong about 3 other lynches he started.SO 4 town dead at his hands but everyone kept following.

So what I think is that someone here is starting this and getting other scum to follow along. I will look over the posts in a few but someone else besides Black fishy here and I don't think it is Berf at all

[berf]

Well with the amount of votes cast on me, I don't think you'll have long to unset it dude.

 

With my lynch seemingly immenent, here are my thoughts:

 

Vote Count:

Aust (2) - Meesh, Phelix

Meesh (1) - Thorum

Red (2) - Player, Wombat

Phelix (10) - Berf, Song, Blackhoof, Tynaal, Aust, Drew, Curt, Talmanes, csarmi, Red

Blackhoof (1) - Krak

 

Not Voting (1): Mav, leelou

 

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch.

 

That's a lynch. Results coming up...

 

 

Night one there was no Nightkill, because MAV didn't get on the vote. Of the people who made the vote, the biggest pingers are Blackhoof and Aust. Aust because he was heavily involved in giving Phelix the one two, and Blackhoof because anything that he says (or said Day One anyway) was scummy as hell, not really consistant, and just generally untrustworthy.

 

Krak, Song, Drew, Curt, Tal, csaarmi, and Red I beleive are all town. Same with Player and Thorum, until Tho left anyway. Meesh hasn't been around enough to get a read on, which is a concern. I think the NK is Wombat, or if there is a second BA group then it is Wombat, Meesh, and someone else. Wombat because the less he talks, the less chance he will let something slip. He's been trying to nip in to the middle of conversations and blend in, and then when attention is called, same thing, nip in, nip out.

 

 

Anyway, at L-whatever I am now, my final appeal is this. I'll put my vote wherever you want. WHEREVER. This will put the BA in the position to either A) Not nightkill someone in an effort to make me look guilty, in which case they miss the chance to off a townie which is always good, or B) Nightkill away, with my vote safely squirreled (or no vote at all) somewhere safe. I'm flexible. All I'm saying is that the BA gain a lot of ground with my death. Red may have some ideas.

 

The plan may have some holes in it. But look at it this way. If my vote is somewhere completely alien, not aligned with anyone, the max nightkills can be one, if we beleive there are two groups. If there are no nightkills, we've gone a night without losing a townie, hopefully more info will show up (or I'll construct a better argument) to prove my citizenship.

 

I'm willing to listen to suggestions to improve this plan. At this point, I'm pretty much done anyway, so even if the plan makes me a BA target, it's no worse than the situ I find myself in now. Be wary of those trying to crush this plan quickly without considering the merrits.

[hotpocket2006]

So I am sorry I haven't been around much this day. I have been super busy the past couple RL days, but I think the Berf case is interesting and I can see it and I am willing to put him at L-3 to see what comes of it. It's interesting that Red brings up L-5 being a good number, when that's normally not true.

 

VOTE BERF

[berf]

Let me clarify. There was no ...let's call it BA Group 1 Nightkill.

 

There was obviously the Nightkill that killed the Mav, BA member.