Rhuidean Rings, Rand and Balefiring the Dragon?

[Ferdawoon]

In the recent book, Towers of Midnight, we see Aviendha going through the rings in Rhuidean and we see her in what she find out to be her future getting closer and closer to present time.

 

When Rand go through the pillars to get his dragon tattoos, he is a Tinker (Aiel) and see the drilling of the bore into the Dark Ones prison.

 

Now, is what he saw while he was passing through the pillars of Rhuidean the lives of different people or were they all his own previous (or future?) lives? I have always thought that your thread in the Pattern is always your own, so to speak. If you are an Aes Sedai you are always an Aes Sedai. Rand is an Aiel, and in the life he lived when he saw the drilling, he was a tinker, what would then become the Aiel.

Is being the Dragon not something he is every time he is part of the Pattern, or is being the Dragon just some extra embroidery that is added to a lifethread?

Meaning, in a way, is there a Dragon Reborn lifethread? Is Rand's Lifethread the same as LTT's or is it the 'embroidery' that is being the Dragon that have linked LTT to Rand?

 

What happen if the Dragon were to be struck by Balefire? Would there be no Dragon ever again as that thread is removed from existence?

[kyerik]

I think all the Aiel clan chiefs saw the same thing as Rand when they went through the rings- the promises of peace that the Aiel's ancestors made long ago and how they were broken (as seen through a random person's eyes).

 

If the Dragon was balefired, I would think he would cease to exist and would be gone forever- just as the forsaken who are balefired can't be brought back by the dark one.

[Sleeper]

I'm pretty sure that RJ said that someone can still be reborn even if he's been balefired. It doesn't kill the soul.

[Phelix]

The Pillars tell the story of the Aiel, they are not Rand's past lives. It was one line of people telling the story, fathers, sons, grandsons. The fact that Aviendha saw the future through the point of view of women might mean that women see the same story, but from a line of women.

 

It might be that each man or woman who goes through the pillars sees the Aiel history through their own line of ancestors.

[Agitel]

The aiel clan chiefs believe it's through the eyes of ancestors of the same gender. If true, through Rand's father his anceestry goes all the way back to Lanfear's aiel, lol.

 

He was not seeing past lives. Lews Therin was his last incarnation, and good ol' Lews was not an Aiel.

 

Balefiring does not destroy a soul. Shai'tan can only grab a soul for just a few brief moments after their death before it's beyond his reach. Balefire kills someone before they're dead, and the window Shai'tan has to act has already closed.

 

3and's soul is a Hero, bound to the Wheel. The people of the fourth age believe he is repeatedly reborn to save them from the Shadow, but RJ has seemingly implied, from my understanding of it, that the Wheel would weave whatever hero it deems appropriate for the occasion.

[yoniy0]

It's also interesting to note that, according to Rhuarc, everyone sees the exact same thing up to the time when Cairhienians share water with the clans. Probably because each and every Aiel now living is descendent from those four friends who tried to free their sisters.

[Shawnchan]

Rand saw the history of the Aiel through the eyes of his ancestors, just like all of the Aiel who go to Rhuidean male or female. (Rhuarc confirms this)

 

Aviendha has a special gift with Angreal/Ter'Angreal as shown in KOD. Honestly what happened in KOD that pertained to the books title other than Avi's affinity to Ter'Angreal? The title of the book focuses on a very brief aside to her ability. Must be important.

 

Avi touched the rings and through her affinity she altered the rings function from showing the past to showing a possible future. We know the rings show the possible future after all (Moiraine and Avi's experience through the rings).

 

As far as Balefiring Rand. Who knows. The Pattern spun him out to do what he needs to do. He could either be the the Creators champion or be turned to the Dark one and be destroyed, until the next turning of the wheel.

 

I do not think the Pattern allows for him to be erased beyond his own personal choice of nihilism.

[dscott8]

The Pillars tell the story of the Aiel, they are not Rand's past lives. It was one line of people telling the story, fathers, sons, grandsons. The fact that Aviendha saw the future through the point of view of women might mean that women see the same story, but from a line of women.

 

It might be that each man or woman who goes through the pillars sees the Aiel history through their own line of ancestors.

 

I've always wondered -- if a non-Aiel went through the pillars, would they see:

 

1. Aiel history from an outsider's point of view?

 

2. Their own people's history from an ancestor's point of view? Berelain would see the founding of Mayene, for example.

 

3. Nothing?

[Shawnchan]

I think that you either come out of the rings an Aiel clan chief, Wise one or, dead or insane.

 

I believe that if anyone not Aiel went through the rings they would die or go insane.

 

Berelain is a question mark for me in terms of heritage. Is it just me or does it hint that Rhuarc may be her father?

[Pygmalion79]

You are mixing up the Rhuidean Rings with the Rhuidean Glass Columns. The Rings show anyone (or at least any female) her possible futures. The Columns used to show any Aiel the past of the Aiel people through the person's ancestor's eyes, and now since Aviendha did something to them they apparently show someone of Aiel blood the lives of their descendents in a possible future. It's unknown whether they do anything for someone who is not Aiel or what that would be -- show their ancestors back to the AOL?

 

You can find everything you need to know about these at the 13th Depository, in the article on ter'angreal:

http://13depository.blogspot.com/search/label/Ter%27angreal%20and%20Allied%20Items

[yoniy0]

Is it just me or does it hint that Rhuarc may be her father?

It's just you. Rhuarc took her under his wings, same as the WO. That's all.

[Beidomon]

You are mixing up the Rhuidean Rings with the Rhuidean Glass Columns. The Rings show anyone (or at least any female) her possible futures. The Columns used to show any Aiel the past of the Aiel people through the person's ancestor's eyes, and now since Aviendha did something to them they apparently show someone of Aiel blood the lives of their descendents in a possible future.

 

Wait - all women, in order to become Wise Ones, have to visit Rhuidean twice. First they go through the rings, then they return and go through the columns. I thought that's all Aviendha was doing. Thus, I assumed that what Aviendha saw was what all Wise Ones see. I thought that was kind of cool that the Clan Chiefs see the past, and the Wise Ones see the future. It would explain the Wise Ones' emphasis on saving what they could of the Aiel.

 

Are you saying that Wise Ones uually see the same thing as the Clan Chiefs, but Aviendha just saw something totally different? That seems kind of... dumb.

[Val Mickey]

Avi saw what the chiefs and the wise ones saw. Then she fiddled with the thing, and she saw the future. It could be the start of a new WO paradigm.

[Pygmalion79]

Are you saying that Wise Ones uually see the same thing as the Clan Chiefs, but Aviendha just saw something totally different? That seems kind of... dumb.

What Val Mickey said. When Aviendha went through the columns, she felt that the experience was anticlimactic now that Rand had revealed the Aiel's past to everyone. It didn't communicate anything new or important to her. This precipitated her fiddling and reversing the ter'angreal's polarity, so to speak, from showing one's ancestors to showing one's descendants.

[Rcurran]

A nice theory is therefore that this is what saves the Aiel and the vision Avi had was of a timeline when the columns simply worked as they always had. This way all the WO could go see for themselves what it is like in the future and Avi wouldn't have to go handing out leaflets and canvassing door to door to get the Aiel to change their future. Thus Avi's work may be already done.

 

Edit - typo

[Luckers]

The Pillars tell the story of the Aiel, they are not Rand's past lives. It was one line of people telling the story, fathers, sons, grandsons. The fact that Aviendha saw the future through the point of view of women might mean that women see the same story, but from a line of women.

 

It might be that each man or woman who goes through the pillars sees the Aiel history through their own line of ancestors.

 

I've always wondered -- if a non-Aiel went through the pillars, would they see:

 

1. Aiel history from an outsider's point of view?

 

2. Their own people's history from an ancestor's point of view? Berelain would see the founding of Mayene, for example.

 

3. Nothing?

 

Nothing. RJ answered this.