Can it be done in just one more book?

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

yes, what luckers said, every word.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

Unfortunately I agree with Luckers. Though if being honest I can go a touch further. It pains me to admit but I can't help but think upon completetion I will feel as though the quality, depth and scope of my most favourite series wasn't given the justice it deserved over the closing stages. Mind you in no way would I ever expect any author to complete the work of another with any fluidity either. It is what it is. How could I say anything but as Robert Jordan is my favourite author? Though well do I understand the courage Brandon has shown. I have the upmost respect for him as an author and have enjoyed ALL of his books. Does that make sense???

 

i sort of feel like maybe it shouldn't have been finished at all. i know most everyone else is happy to have the story finished, especially by a decent writer and a decent human being, who wouldn't parasitize the thing like, say, KJA and BH would. but imo, the story could never be properly told by anyone but RJ, outlines or no outlines.

 

but i also think if RJ had lived to 120, the story would never have been finished.

[Elan Tedronai]

i just want brandon to stop fluffing about and just get on with it. End this seies aleady

[capuga]

i just want brandon to stop fluffing about and just get on with it. End this seies aleady

 

You really think RJ would have done it at a faster pace?

[Carteeg_Struve]

You really think RJ would have done it at a faster pace?

 

Yes, absolutely!

 

Gathering Storm wouldn't have had that foreword, but everything else would had been the same. So there would overall be a whole two pages less. Thus things would had been faster.

 

...

 

*cough*

[Luckers]

i just want brandon to stop fluffing about and just get on with it. End this seies aleady

 

You really think RJ would have done it at a faster pace?

 

I think RJ would have done it at a slower writing pace, but that the books would be the same size and contain a lot more.

[capuga]

i just want brandon to stop fluffing about and just get on with it. End this seies aleady

 

You really think RJ would have done it at a faster pace?

 

I think RJ would have done it at a slower writing pace, but that the books would be the same size and contain a lot more.

 

I know what you're saying about RJ saying more with less words, but I'm still of the belief that RJ's word count would still have been much higher as well.

[Luckers]

I dunno--there are a lot of empty sentences in Brandon's work. Connections to past events we all remember, renumerations to explain a decision that we can all deduce simple from knowing what happened to a character in the past. Whole chunks of purely pointless character work like the first three pages of Mat's first POV in tGS.

 

A lot could be cut from Brandon's work without it affecting plot development or story revelation in the slightest.

[capuga]

I dunno--there are a lot of empty sentences in Brandon's work. Connections to past events we all remember, renumerations to explain a decision that we can all deduce simple from knowing what happened to a character in the past. Whole chunks of purely pointless character work like the first three pages of Mat's first POV in tGS.

 

A lot could be cut from Brandon's work without it affecting plot development or story revelation in the slightest.

 

True, but RJ's not exactly known for being concise in his writing. For example, in ToM Elayne makes her move and secures the Cairhien throne in something like one or two chapters. I found this refreshing because we got enough political manuvouring from Elayne. But based on the amount of time RJ dedicated to her gaining the Andoran throne, I have to believe that her "conquest" of Cairhien would have been at least 3 or 4 chapters. Would it have been richer and more detailed? Almost certainly. But he would have wanted to add all that additional info and words.

[Luckers]

I dunno--there are a lot of empty sentences in Brandon's work. Connections to past events we all remember, renumerations to explain a decision that we can all deduce simple from knowing what happened to a character in the past. Whole chunks of purely pointless character work like the first three pages of Mat's first POV in tGS.

 

A lot could be cut from Brandon's work without it affecting plot development or story revelation in the slightest.

 

True, but RJ's not exactly known for being concise in his writing. For example, in ToM Elayne makes her move and secures the Cairhien throne in something like one or two chapters. I found this refreshing because we got enough political manuvouring from Elayne. But based on the amount of time RJ dedicated to her gaining the Andoran throne, I have to believe that her "conquest" of Cairhien would have been at least 3 or 4 chapters. Would it have been richer and more detailed? Almost certainly. But he would have wanted to add all that additional info and words.

 

Yes, but you're missing what I'm saying--if you cut the extranuos writing from Brandon's books, you leave the space for the richer and more detailed portrayal--you've no idea how much can be cut doing this. Brandon took out 50,000 words this way with his edit of TofM. I think almost another 100,000 could be taken out between tGS and ToM, and that space dedicated to more detail. The size of the book would have been more or less the same.

 

And again, as I said earlier, I'm not talking about RJ's overt inclination to describe dresses and depict baths--well, actually the dress thing doesn't bother me, but the baths *shudder*.

[capuga]

I dunno--there are a lot of empty sentences in Brandon's work. Connections to past events we all remember, renumerations to explain a decision that we can all deduce simple from knowing what happened to a character in the past. Whole chunks of purely pointless character work like the first three pages of Mat's first POV in tGS.

 

A lot could be cut from Brandon's work without it affecting plot development or story revelation in the slightest.

 

True, but RJ's not exactly known for being concise in his writing. For example, in ToM Elayne makes her move and secures the Cairhien throne in something like one or two chapters. I found this refreshing because we got enough political manuvouring from Elayne. But based on the amount of time RJ dedicated to her gaining the Andoran throne, I have to believe that her "conquest" of Cairhien would have been at least 3 or 4 chapters. Would it have been richer and more detailed? Almost certainly. But he would have wanted to add all that additional info and words.

 

Yes, but you're missing what I'm saying--if you cut the extranuos writing from Brandon's books, you leave the space for the richer and more detailed portrayal--you've no idea how much can be cut doing this. Brandon took out 50,000 words this way with his edit of TofM. I think almost another 100,000 could be taken out between tGS and ToM, and that space dedicated to more detail. The size of the book would have been more or less the same.

 

And again, as I said earlier, I'm not talking about RJ's overt inclination to describe dresses and depict baths--well, actually the dress thing doesn't bother me, but the baths *shudder*.

 

I get what you're saying. I'm just not sure that the ratio of Brandon's extraneous writing to RJ's detail would tilt that much RJ's way. This is the same writer that took 3 plus books to resolve the Faile capture plotline and the Elayne takes the crown plotline.

 

Either way, I wish that RJ was around to finish his epic his way. But I'm glad that Brandon was chosen to finish things up and is doing as well as can be expected.

[Luckers]

I dunno--there are a lot of empty sentences in Brandon's work. Connections to past events we all remember, renumerations to explain a decision that we can all deduce simple from knowing what happened to a character in the past. Whole chunks of purely pointless character work like the first three pages of Mat's first POV in tGS.

 

A lot could be cut from Brandon's work without it affecting plot development or story revelation in the slightest.

 

True, but RJ's not exactly known for being concise in his writing. For example, in ToM Elayne makes her move and secures the Cairhien throne in something like one or two chapters. I found this refreshing because we got enough political manuvouring from Elayne. But based on the amount of time RJ dedicated to her gaining the Andoran throne, I have to believe that her "conquest" of Cairhien would have been at least 3 or 4 chapters. Would it have been richer and more detailed? Almost certainly. But he would have wanted to add all that additional info and words.

 

Yes, but you're missing what I'm saying--if you cut the extranuos writing from Brandon's books, you leave the space for the richer and more detailed portrayal--you've no idea how much can be cut doing this. Brandon took out 50,000 words this way with his edit of TofM. I think almost another 100,000 could be taken out between tGS and ToM, and that space dedicated to more detail. The size of the book would have been more or less the same.

 

And again, as I said earlier, I'm not talking about RJ's overt inclination to describe dresses and depict baths--well, actually the dress thing doesn't bother me, but the baths *shudder*.

 

I get what you're saying. I'm just not sure that the ratio of Brandon's extraneous writing to RJ's detail would tilt that much RJ's way. This is the same writer that took 3 plus books to resolve the Faile capture plotline and the Elayne takes the crown plotline.

 

Either way, I wish that RJ was around to finish his epic his way. But I'm glad that Brandon was chosen to finish things up and is doing as well as can be expected.

 

I wasn't actually trying to make the point that RJ could have done better, incidentally. Based on Brandon's writing I believe Brandon could have done better if he'd taken a longer period of time to produce them--which again, is mostly our fault, and the publishers, given the preasure for the swift release of a book. My only real criticism of Brandon here is that he did not put his foot down and demand more time--yes that would have brought alot of flack upon him, but I don't think its unfair of me to say that he accepted those responsibilities when he decided to take on the story.

 

Though, also, I'm not sure he realised he needed more time. From what I can tell he put the same amount of time into editing his own books--it is the writing component to which he seems compelled, more than the editing--but nevertheless, I believe he had the skill to do this.

 

As for your point--RJ's underestimation of his own expansive detail had already played out in the three book division. Recall that he wrote the plot points that Brandon follows--the bones of the story are the same, the events are the same. 100,000 words over two books cover for expanded detail in those scenes.

[Mats Spare Hat]

I dunno--there are a lot of empty sentences in Brandon's work. Connections to past events we all remember, renumerations to explain a decision that we can all deduce simple from knowing what happened to a character in the past. Whole chunks of purely pointless character work like the first three pages of Mat's first POV in tGS.

 

A lot could be cut from Brandon's work without it affecting plot development or story revelation in the slightest.

 

 

When I first read the parts you've noticed, they're pretty evident, my brow would scrunch up and I just thought - the heck? Common author, we're on book 13 - We know what's gone on and what's happened to these characters, all the happenings in the story... It felt like it was dumbing things down?

 

I mean damn man, it's a freaking fantasy epic, not a weekly episodic sitcom two-parter "last time, on <insert your pick of show here>" that people just tune into without having known the details, prior to getting to the point in the story at which we are at now. We're at book 13, ditch the 'but what if they just tuned in and need a catch-me-up' angle. If people need to catch up, there's 12 other books for that.

 

As a reader, I feel like I deserve better at this point? I'm sure that could come across shallow given authorial circumstance, but damn man, just...damn.

 

 

...GET IN THE GAME ROCK(Sanderson)!

[Crossroad]

It can't be done, Brandon spent to much time on Eggy in ToM and should have resolved the Shaunsean Thread in ToM so the last book could be spent covering the battle and the prelude.

 

What we are going to get is a few chapters on the Andor problem, the Shaunsean attack(maybe) on the White Tower and the Black Towers sticky wicket. How can you do justice to all those threads and deliver and epic. The Eggy and co in this series have had a lot to do and the boys seem more like bench warmers, brought on the field at crittical times in each story. The last book was an exception to the rule but we all know Perrin had to have his day.

 

If the boys don't dominate this last book I feel that being what they are has been way under ultilized not only in the last book but the rest of the series. Leaving until the last book to have the boys use there ability to communicate with each other is a damn shame.

 

These are just some of the reason I can't see Brandon satisficing my WoT addiction.

[Elan Tedronai]

i just want brandon to stop fluffing about and just get on with it. End this seies aleady

 

You really think RJ would have done it at a faster pace?

 

 

i don't think RJ would be reading the entire series twice in the span of 2 years. And you bet RJ would have finished this series way back in 2008. It's his wife and brandon who decided to split the books into 3.

 

 

Now that i see the result i kinda wished it was one single book

[Elan Tedronai]

I dunno--there are a lot of empty sentences in Brandon's work. Connections to past events we all remember, renumerations to explain a decision that we can all deduce simple from knowing what happened to a character in the past. Whole chunks of purely pointless character work like the first three pages of Mat's first POV in tGS.

 

A lot could be cut from Brandon's work without it affecting plot development or story revelation in the slightest.

 

 

When I first read the parts you've noticed, they're pretty evident, my brow would scrunch up and I just thought - the heck? Common author, we're on book 13 - We know what's gone on and what's happened to these characters, all the happenings in the story... It felt like it was dumbing things down?

 

I mean damn man, it's a freaking fantasy epic, not a weekly episodic sitcom two-parter "last time, on <insert your pick of show here>" that people just tune into without having known the details, prior to getting to the point in the story at which we are at now. We're at book 13, ditch the 'but what if they just tuned in and need a catch-me-up' angle. If people need to catch up, there's 12 other books for that.

 

As a reader, I feel like I deserve better at this point? I'm sure that could come across shallow given authorial circumstance, but damn man, just...damn.

 

 

...GET IN THE GAME ROCK(Sanderson)!

 

 

sanderson likes to fluff around too much. I mean look at TOM for example. Half the book was about galad and perrin going back and forth. Morgase and tea drinking. Thwe parts about perrin burning flags and crying 'why me? why should i be a leader waaah life not fair waaah' is just mind numbing.

 

You know what i realised after finishing the book. The often heralded famed last battle is going to be an epic disappointment. may be RJ didn't have enough notes except for a the plot outlines. But yeah at this rate the war of power was the true last battle because it is more epic in nature.

 

Here's what's going to happen in AMOL

 

Black tower arc in the opening of the book. All hell breaks loose. Elaida's foretelling fulfilled. A large part of taims group escape.

Seanchan attack on the white tower.

camelyn sitiuation burns up

field of merrilor meeting

rand breaks the seals

battle starts

All loyalties and divisions in randland will be put aside once everyone sees the hordes of trollocs and myrdraal before them.

battles are engaged.

yet some more battles are engaged.

moraine shows up

rand cries with joy

moriaine gives him an idea for sealing the bore

rand travels to shayol ghul

shit happens there.

bore sealed. The prison remade back to PRE war of power state.

epilogue

 

 

maybe RJ was right. may be AMOL should have been one single book.

[GrandpaG]

I chose yes, the book will be rushed and have loose ends--though that is not precisely what I believe. Rather, I think the book will not be rushed, but that it will not be as complex as it otherwise should be.

 

In my opinion this has already been happening in tGS and TofM. Take, for instance, Nicola's death, Elayne taking the Sun Throne, or Galad and Asunawa's confrontation. Brandon has a list of all the key plot points, but it is for him to write how the characters move between them, and he glosses over a lot more of the background than Jordan did. Of course, he said he never intended to try and match Jordan stylistically--a decision I both agree with, and admire him for. But I'm not so much speaking of Jordan's style, as I am of the degree of effort Jordan put into polishing the books.

 

That being said I do know a lot of people like the streamlined nature of Brandon's novels, and I am not talking about Jordan's tendency towards excess in descriptions of dresses and depictions of baths, rather I'm talking of just how much world information he could fit into a sentence--and without it ever feeling like exposition.

 

And the thing is, I don't believe the books would have been larger with this material. There is a fair amount of empty paragraphs in these later books--character renumerating on decisions to explain their actions or intentions, long references or discussions of past events to tie into current events, and so forth. Read the scene where Rand and Nynaeve arrive in Falme for an example of this, or Perrin's POV's in tGS and ToM up to about Shanna'har. These elements needed to be cut, and more depth put in to other scenes--a matter mostly for the editing rounds, which he put two to three months into, and Jordan put upwards of a year into.

 

Of course this isn't entirely Brandon's fault. He was under enormous preasure from us to get the books out fast. I do believe that Brandon should have put his foot down--WoT books needed two years by the master--and I know thats a harsh judgement on my behalf, given it would have brought flack (from us ingrateful bastards) down on him in a torrent--but then he accepted that responsibility when he took on the job.

 

Still, this is what I fear for aMoL. That Brandon will take the shortest, simplest path through the plot points Jordan left him, rather than the path that would best express the story. We'll still get a good book--and despite the amount left to be dealt with, I doubt that it will feel rushed--but it will be... shallow is the word, but I don't mean it in the "you're shallow man" insulting kind of way, just in truest sense of the word. Simple.

 

The scope of the world has shrunk in Brandon's work. It will allow him to do what needs to be done in a shorter period of time, but the expansive nature of the Wheel is compromised in the process.

 

My two cents.

 

 

As for Mat and Tuon--Brandon has always respected that this is Jordan's work. He would not change Jordan's plan, which included Mat and Fortuona living.

 

 

 

 

I agree.

 

 

 

Brandon is not RJ.

 

All of the books would have been different had RJ lived on.

 

I can't imagine trying to do what Brandon is doing.

 

I will read the final book and try to enjoy it.

 

Writing 5 more books would not replace RJ.

 

There will be too many other things going on to worry about killing off Mat or his "wife".

[Ishna]

"Yes, it will maintain the natural flow of the story and do RJ justice"

 

Well to do RJ justice it should always be 3 more books, so split into 3 would fit that quote

 

Honestly I actually think it is a close call between 1 or 2 books. For the first time it really feels like it is

possible to finish it in one book. But I would prefer 2.

[randsc]

I'll be the iconoclast here.

 

1. It can be done in one book.

 

2. It might actually be better done in one book than more than one.

 

3. Sanderson might actually do a better job of wrapping it up in one book that Jordan would have.

 

I honestly think that if Jordan had lived, there would be more than one more book. I don't think Jordan, writing as he did, could have finished in another 1000 pages. Sanderson will finish.

 

It needn't be rushed. Some of the most pwerful writing of the series has been in relatively brief (by WOT standards) pieces. For example:

 

tEotW prologue;

Moiraine's tale of Manetheren;

Falme;

Dumai's Wells;

Egwene defends the Tower;

Aviendha's visions;

Verin;

Maradon;

Kandori Twoer in the ToM prologue;

 

and on and on. We could all list many examples.

 

Conversely, many of the worst-received (and just worst) plot acrs have been given plenty of words and pages.

 

A satisfying scene at the Field of Merilor could be written in 5-10 pages. Slightly more, but only slightly, would be required for the Black Tower resolution. The Charge of the Malkieri needs a few pages, but only because it was rushed in ToM. Still, 10 pages would cover it.

 

It will feel like a boxer hitting a speed bag, but it can all get done, and well.

[TheBeerPatriot]

I have to say I'm surprised at the number of people that have posted here indicating that AMOL should not have been split up. I can see the point some people are making that there was some fluff in ToM (especially the Perrin/Galad scenes), and that there are no good division points to make between the 3 books of AMoL. However, look at all that happened in TGS-Rand and Egwene's characters made huge strides in that book, and closed out two large plot arcs. One can argue that there was some fluff with Mat and Perrin's scenes in TGS, but there wasn't too much fluff.

 

Point is that can you imagine if Rand and Egwene's plot arcs from TGS was covered in the same binding as the Last Battle? That would definitely feel too rushed.

[zidfrekle]

I think the "fluff" in Brandon's writing is due to the fact that most of his work so far has been single book or trilogy oriented. He just isn't used to writing a huge series, so the reminders of things that happen in earlier books and some of the "fluff" is simply his way of trying to link his writing to Jordan's earlier work.

[randsc]

That "fluff" is also entirely consistent with Jordan's style earlier in the series, when he spent a hundred pages in each book catching us up.

[randsc]

I have to say I'm surprised at the number of people that have posted here indicating that AMOL should not have been split up. I can see the point some people are making that there was some fluff in ToM (especially the Perrin/Galad scenes), and that there are no good division points to make between the 3 books of AMoL. However, look at all that happened in TGS-Rand and Egwene's characters made huge strides in that book, and closed out two large plot arcs. One can argue that there was some fluff with Mat and Perrin's scenes in TGS, but there wasn't too much fluff.

 

Point is that can you imagine if Rand and Egwene's plot arcs from TGS was covered in the same binding as the Last Battle? That would definitely feel too rushed.

 

I can't agree. Rand and Egwene's arcs needed to advance. They could have been done in less space, especially Egwene's. If you think about it, the meat of Egwene's story in TGS is a single chapter.

 

I don't think there is any real problem with splitting AMOL into three, but I also don't think it was necessary. More pages does not necessarily equal better. Just look how much the plot was advanced, and how much was wrapped up, in Verin's chat with Egwene. That was, what, 8 pages?

[Orderofolde]

I dunno--there are a lot of empty sentences in Brandon's work. Connections to past events we all remember, renumerations to explain a decision that we can all deduce simple from knowing what happened to a character in the past. Whole chunks of purely pointless character work like the first three pages of Mat's first POV in tGS.

 

A lot could be cut from Brandon's work without it affecting plot development or story revelation in the slightest.

That's a commonality with all RJ's books, reintroducing briefly things from the past books to make each able to stand alone and interest someone to pick up the others previously or to just go on from that point. Mostly you see it in the beginning chapters of each or a tidbit when someone or something else is introduced later on like a refference to Aridhol or whatnot.

 

Also it is common practice to reintroduce briefly ideas or thoughts or concepts or characters briefly to refresh it in a reader's mind. Each time I hear it though, it stands out and I automatically think, "That's for the new guys" and then it is over and the story continuing.

[Orderofolde]

I have to say I'm surprised at the number of people that have posted here indicating that AMOL should not have been split up. I can see the point some people are making that there was some fluff in ToM (especially the Perrin/Galad scenes), and that there are no good division points to make between the 3 books of AMoL. However, look at all that happened in TGS-Rand and Egwene's characters made huge strides in that book, and closed out two large plot arcs. One can argue that there was some fluff with Mat and Perrin's scenes in TGS, but there wasn't too much fluff.

 

Point is that can you imagine if Rand and Egwene's plot arcs from TGS was covered in the same binding as the Last Battle? That would definitely feel too rushed.

 

I can't agree. Rand and Egwene's arcs needed to advance. They could have been done in less space, especially Egwene's. If you think about it, the meat of Egwene's story in TGS is a single chapter.

 

I don't think there is any real problem with splitting AMOL into three, but I also don't think it was necessary. More pages does not necessarily equal better. Just look how much the plot was advanced, and how much was wrapped up, in Verin's chat with Egwene. That was, what, 8 pages?

All I can say is that if you have a piece of meat that is too lean with all the fat trimmed away, it doesn't taste so good. Fat gives it a little flavor, so long as it isn't too much left on.