Who is the Big Bad?

[Barid Bel Medar]

Do you think there is a sort of power struggle that is inevitable between Moridin and Demandred? Look at the past, the relationship between Lews Therin and Demandred. D was always second best, overshadowed, back burner to Lews and it ate at him. So do you think Demandred is okay with Moridin at the helm? Do you forsee him showing up at the final battle guns blazing for Rand and the light, or do you see him maybe plotting on Moridin? If this has been discussed on other threads I apologize. I've read a bunch but to have read all of them would be insane! haha! Also, I think Fain and his dagger are going to be a huge factor at the last battle. Possibly the DO slayer?

 

Demandred doesnt care about Moridin so much. He only hates LTT, because he was one step better at everything. Its not about Moridin being Nae'blis or LTT having a higher position. Its more about the constant fact that everything Demandred did, LTT always did one better.

 

IN any case, I doubt there will be any power struggle between the two. Any of the other Forsaken are more likely to turn against Moridin. Demandred perhaps the most accepting of Moridin.

 

Matt Hatch on Twitter 8 November 2010

Matt

 

How often does Demandred contemplate killing Moridin?

 

Brandon

 

Less than the other Chosen. He is focused on Rand. He contemplates Moridin, but mostly he wants Rand.

 

 

[ice9planet]

Do you think there is a sort of power struggle that is inevitable between Moridin and Demandred? Look at the past, the relationship between Lews Therin and Demandred. D was always second best, overshadowed, back burner to Lews and it ate at him. So do you think Demandred is okay with Moridin at the helm? Do you forsee him showing up at the final battle guns blazing for Rand and the light, or do you see him maybe plotting on Moridin? If this has been discussed on other threads I apologize. I've read a bunch but to have read all of them would be insane! haha! Also, I think Fain and his dagger are going to be a huge factor at the last battle. Possibly the DO slayer?

 

Demandred doesnt care about Moridin so much. He only hates LTT, because he was one step better at everything. Its not about Moridin being Nae'blis or LTT having a higher position. Its more about the constant fact that everything Demandred did, LTT always did one better.

 

IN any case, I doubt there will be any power struggle between the two. Any of the other Forsaken are more likely to turn against Moridin. Demandred perhaps the most accepting of Moridin.

 

Matt Hatch on Twitter 8 November 2010

Matt

 

How often does Demandred contemplate killing Moridin?

 

Brandon

 

Less than the other Chosen. He is focused on Rand. He contemplates Moridin, but mostly he wants Rand.

 

 

Ahhh! I can see that. Thanks for the response.

[lord of madness]

I reckon it will go down like this

 

Rand: Right there's only a couple of pages left, so this is going to have to be a quickie.

 

Moridin: That's grand. I'm so tired anyway. How we going to do this?

 

Rand: Thumb war?

 

Moridin: How fitting? Okay go.

 

Rand and Moridin: One two three four I declare a Thumb War!

 

After ten minutes of furious uneventfulness and murderous stares.

 

Moridin: That's cheating! You can't just have your thumb held back. Fight me!

 

Rand: Okay. One, Two, THREE! I win. Now close up that bore and hop back in there now like a good forsaken.

can't stop laughing

 

 

fain is thrown into the bore and the parten cloes itself and rand and mordin die

[Owayn The Traveller]

I reckon it will go down like this

 

Rand: Right there's only a couple of pages left, so this is going to have to be a quickie.

 

Moridin: That's grand. I'm so tired anyway. How we going to do this?

 

Rand: Thumb war?

 

Moridin: How fitting? Okay go.

 

Rand and Moridin: One two three four I declare a Thumb War!

 

After ten minutes of furious uneventfulness and murderous stares.

 

Moridin: That's cheating! You can't just have your thumb held back. Fight me!

 

Rand: Okay. One, Two, THREE! I win. Now close up that bore and hop back in there now like a good forsaken.

can't stop laughing

 

 

fain is thrown into the bore and the parten cloes itself and rand and mordin die

 

 

If thats not the ending ill be shocked.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Yahbut, who's on First?

 

This is supposed to be a melange of Mythologies, but most of all, it's supposed to be a new take on King Arthur, the Once and Future King. So, who's who?

 

Rand is obviously Arthur. Lan, equally obviously Lancelot. Moridin is pretty obviously Mordred.

 

After that everything goes all pear-shaped.

 

Lanfear = Morgana Le Fay? OK. But, Mordred was Arthur and Morgana's son. Doesn't quite work for Moridin, does it? Kinda tough to see Lanfear as Rand's half-sister, too.

 

We totally lack a Merlin. No Merlin anywhere to be found.

 

Egwene works as The Lady of the Lake. Elayne works as Guinevere, except that Lan never had eyes for her only for Nynaeve. And, where or who does that leave for Min and Aviendha to be?

 

We also know that outrigger novels were planned. Primarily about Mat and Tuon ten years after Tarmon Gaidon. So, neither of them can die.

 

Somebody has to throw Excalibur/Calandor into the water, too. Who dat?

 

We already know, via prophecy and Viewings, that we're gonna get the full-on Arthurian ending - the mortally wounded King sailing into the mist on a ship with three women aboard.

 

So, our problem becomes one that conforms to the Arthurian Ending using the characters we have, and we can't come up with how that's gonna work until we figure out Who's on First, and there are just too many characters whose position on the field we don't know yet ( Padan Fain? Demandred? Shaidar Haran? Mat? Perrin? Alanna? Min? Nynaeve? Aviendha? Moggy? Who the blazes is the Mogster? Where does she fit? Graendal? She's in that other Celtic myth. How did Beowolf get into this? )

 

Heck, the real fighting hasn't even started yet and Fenris/Semirhage is already dead, but now we're getting into Norse Mythology: Rand = Tyr ( and hopefully Baldr ), Mat = Odin, and Perrin = Thor. But, that still doesn't tell us Who's on First?

[Bob T Dwarf]

Yahbut, who's on First?

 

This is supposed to be a melange of Mythologies, but most of all, it's supposed to be a new take on King Arthur, the Once and Future King. So, who's who?

 

Rand is obviously Arthur. Lan, equally obviously Lancelot. Moridin is pretty obviously Mordred.

 

After that everything goes all pear-shaped.

 

Lanfear = Morgana Le Fay? OK. But, Mordred was Arthur and Morgana's son. Doesn't quite work for Moridin, does it? Kinda tough to see Lanfear as Rand's half-sister, too.

 

We totally lack a Merlin. No Merlin anywhere to be found.

 

Egwene works as The Lady of the Lake. Elayne works as Guinevere, except that Lan never had eyes for her only for Nynaeve. And, where or who does that leave for Min and Aviendha to be?

 

We also know that outrigger novels were planned. Primarily about Mat and Tuon ten years after Tarmon Gaidon. So, neither of them can die.

 

Somebody has to throw Excalibur/Calandor into the water, too. Who dat?

 

We already know, via prophecy and Viewings, that we're gonna get the full-on Arthurian ending - the mortally wounded King sailing into the mist on a ship with three women aboard.

 

So, our problem becomes one that conforms to the Arthurian Ending using the characters we have, and we can't come up with how that's gonna work until we figure out Who's on First, and there are just too many characters whose position on the field we don't know yet ( Padan Fain? Demandred? Shaidar Haran? Mat? Perrin? Alanna? Min? Nynaeve? Aviendha? Moggy? Who the blazes is the Mogster? Where does she fit? Graendal? She's in that other Celtic myth. How did Beowolf get into this?

 

Heck, the real fighting hasn't even started yet and Fenris/Semirhage is already dead, but now we're getting into Norse Mythology: Rand = Tyr ( and hopefully Baldr ), Mat = Odin, and Perrin = Thor. That gives us Padan Fain as Loki, but Mat works even better there, so they've gotta duke it out to see who fathers Slepnir, first. Fain undergoing the Norwegian Acid Torture is a pleasing image, though. But, that still doesn't tell us Who's on First, so we're no closer to figuring out how the game plays out.

[Suttree]

We totally lack a Merlin. No Merlin anywhere to be found.

 

Moiraine

[Bob T Dwarf]

We totally lack a Merlin. No Merlin anywhere to be found.

 

Moiraine

 

Actually, not a bad characterization. Moiraine would work pretty well as Merlin.

[The Fisher King]

Regarding Male Big Bads in AMOL: I think Demandred will General most of Team Darks military. This leaves Moridin, Taim, Fain and SH.

 

I'm sensing a One-On-One featuring Rand vs Moridin. Somehow I see The DO 'choosing' Rand, if that makes sense.

 

Fain, SH and Taim I see all trying 'sneaky stufff' to try and further independent agendas. I doubt their attempts will go well

 

Just how I see it.

 

 

Fish

[Luckers]

We totally lack a Merlin. No Merlin anywhere to be found.

 

Moiraine

 

Actually, not a bad characterization. Moiraine would work pretty well as Merlin.

 

Thom Merrilin.

[Owayn The Traveller]

I don't believe we will see an all out fisticuffs between Moridin and rand. It would be like beating up your own vodoo doll.

Rand v Demandred I can see. If Demandred beats Rand he beats Moridin, becoming Naeblis and also proving he's number one and I can see Demandred figuring out the link. Has anyone besides Greandal noticed something off about Moridin?

 

Taim is working for the Shadow but like all dark friends only for his own benefit. The difference is he is extremely powerful, ambitious, confident and blinded by the what if 'I was the dragon reborn? He's going to make his own play.

 

The light won't defeat the shadow. The shadow will defeat the shadow.

Still need Rand to sort the Dark One though.

[Owayn The Traveller]

Moraine and thom = merlin

 

One in name and look the other in her powers and role.

[OptimusPrime]

We totally lack a Merlin. No Merlin anywhere to be found.

 

Moiraine

 

Actually, not a bad characterization. Moiraine would work pretty well as Merlin.

 

Thom Merrilin.

 

Helen Daniels?

[The Fisher King]

When discussing Male Big Bads in AMOL, I see many mentions of Moridin, Fain, Demandred and SH.

 

Slayer was dealt with in TOM ... Hmmm, are we missing one?

 

 

Fish

[Owayn The Traveller]

When discussing Male Big Bads in AMOL, I see many mentions of Moridin, Fain, Demandred and SH.

 

Slayer was dealt with in TOM ... Hmmm, are we missing one?

 

 

Fish

 

Are inferring Taim?

 

He ain't a big bad, he's just misunderstood.

[Eht Slat Meit]

When discussing Male Big Bads in AMOL, I see many mentions of Moridin, Fain, Demandred and SH.

 

Slayer was dealt with in TOM ... Hmmm, are we missing one?

 

Slayer's still up for Round Two. Perrin owes him one for that kick in the stomach.

[lord of madness]

it would be intresting fight between rand and moridin but you could say moridin is going to avoid the fight

[Owayn The Traveller]

it would be intresting fight between rand and moridin but you could say moridin is going to avoid the fight

We've gad it already really with Rand and Ishy. Besides they couldn't fight each other directly with the link or with it wouldn't be a conventional fight.

[The Fisher King]

Maybe we should look at this another way. Maybe the question should be:

 

What Do You Think Will Ultimately Be The Fate Of The Following In AMOL?

 

1 Padan Fain

 

2 Shadar Haran

 

3 Moridin

 

4 Demandred

 

 

Fish

[Bob T Dwarf]

We totally lack a Merlin. No Merlin anywhere to be found.

 

Moiraine

 

Actually, not a bad characterization. Moiraine would work pretty well as Merlin.

 

Thom Merrilin.

 

Yeah, Thom came to me well after I posted that. I think I didn't consider him because he's a non-channeler.

 

In a sense, LTT fulfills the "last great Mage" aspect of Merlin, with Thom being the wily advisor aspect.

 

Now, the Thom/Moiraine duo would make a complete Merlin as he's usually characterized.

 

Also, Thom has been out of Rand's orbit, off with Mat for most of the series. Offhand, he hasn't been near Rand since the Stone of Tear. Not exactly the proximity needed to be Arthur's closest and most trusted advisor.

[Owayn The Traveller]

Doesn't Merlin go away from Arthur for a whole as well gets trapped under a hill(moraine getting trapped in the tower ) by that Morgan La Fey.

[Eht Slat Meit]

We totally lack a Merlin. No Merlin anywhere to be found.

 

Moiraine

 

Actually, not a bad characterization. Moiraine would work pretty well as Merlin.

 

Thom Merrilin.

 

Yeah, Thom came to me well after I posted that. I think I didn't consider him because he's a non-channeler.

 

In a sense, LTT fulfills the "last great Mage" aspect of Merlin, with Thom being the wily advisor aspect.

 

Now, the Thom/Moiraine duo would make a complete Merlin as he's usually characterized.

 

Also, Thom has been out of Rand's orbit, off with Mat for most of the series. Offhand, he hasn't been near Rand since the Stone of Tear. Not exactly the proximity needed to be Arthur's closest and most trusted advisor.

 

Might also be that Merlin's traits are divided between Rand's closest advisors throughout the series: Thom for form, ideology and personality, Moiraine for intellect and insight, Lan for the link to the Lady of the Lake, Cadsuane for the power. Arthurian legends aren't my thing though, so I might be overanalyzing. I'm digging their Norse parallels and ties to Mat anyway.

[Axon]

Rand is just gonna punk everyone out anyway. They don't call him the Dragon for nothing.