You had better sit down

[fuer grissa]

:!: i beleive saidar is tainted (if someone has posted it before me i appologise) here is my thought process:rand,in order to 'clean'saidin used the untainted saidar to purify the tainted saidin.

what i beleive is that the dark ones taint in a sense 'rubbed off' on saidar when it was used on this fashion.

unlike the taint that was on saidin the taint on saidar doesn't drive people crazy it merely effects saidars effectiveness(does that make sense?) like the rebel aes sedai's wardings on their food.

 

I trhrow this topic open for discussion.

 

p.s.this is my first post

[Kadere]

Congrats on making your first posting. Sure is an interesting theory. I don't quite buy it though because it's been two books since Winter's Heart and no Aes Sedai has made a complaint about a taint feeling, or gone mad. But still interesting idea.

[Guest Egwene]

Hi Fuer Grissa... congrats on your first post, however I think this topic probably should go onto the book discussion boards.

 

Don't know if you can re-locate it or if you need to re-post, but maybe one of the Mods will come in and explain.

 

And as for that thought of yours. I too have pondered habout the cleansing and think that your idea of causing problems with saidar may be correct.

[Guest cwestervelt]

Maybe...

 

I keep thinking that something did not go right because the cleansing was a little too easy. If that was all there was too it, why did they just create Eye of the World and not do the whole thing.

 

At the same time, I end up arguing with myself that, 1) Rand got the instructions from the Finn's so he had to have been told true. 2) Why was the DO so intent on stopping it that he ordered all of the Foresaken into a joint counter operation.

 

I can talk myself around the first part, by taking the stance that Rand was starting to loose it by the end of Path of Daggers. He almost got Narishma killed by forgetting to tell him some of the traps around Callandor. The second point is the stickler though.

[joe]

I agree that the cleansing had some yet undiscovered effect on saidar - that calm river was churned up with the taint, and while I believe that the taint is gone for good (what else could have created that huge black ball that enveloped Shadar Logoth - it was the taint violently cancelling out the other taint on Shadar Logoth), I do feel that the "temporary tainting" of saidar has created "ripples" in the female half of the power that have released wardings and caused the instablity that we have seen.

 

cwestervelt, I believe that Rand's answers were general enough that he could still fail in some way - the finns are tricky like that. As to the second point, well my idea takes that into account, because the taint is still being destroyed, with only minimal side-effects (compared to driving every male channeler insane).

Perhaps this is why the female Aes Sedai in the AOL wouldn't do it: perhaps they realized that the method that Rand used would in fact transport the taint to Saidar in some way and weren't willing to risk it.

 

this is my first post as well

[Moric]

Well, there's a logic to your reasoning but I think it is based on a false asumption. The ineffectivness you claim is, for all I remember, only mentioned in one instance: That food (protected with Saidar or not) is going bad. This could just as easily be an example of the Dark One touching the World, as it did when the weather in the Wetlands went haywire. That would be something simple weaving wouldn't be able to counter (it took the most skilled in weathercontrol in a full circle of 13 with the Bowl of the Winds to set the weather right). And it's in line with the DO's Modus Operandi.

 

Moric of the Singing Wind Sept of the Miagoma Aiel

[Paradoxic]

Moric has a point. It is not just that the Keeping is failing. All food everywhere is going bad; remember Perrin's experience with the weevils? We also hear of salted ham going bad well before it should, of rat and insect populations well above the normal numbers for that time of the year, and other such things.

[Moric]

Ayup... That's entirely my point. So let's not jump to conclusions. *Smiles*

 

Moric

[djon]

The food is going bad because the vermin are attacking (yes the work of the DO)but, just before being recalled to her duties with the Wise Ones Aviendha discovers a TA that will drive the vermin away. Look for that to be used shortly after the Twins are born and clear thought returns to Queen E.

[joe]

You all have a good point there, I will agree that the food/vermin problems are more likely due to the DO's touch. However, I still think somthing has to explain the failure of Saidar: if the wardings were only weakened ("overcome", as it werw, by the DO's touch), then I would have no concern, but the wording in the book is "failed" (i think...if i'm wrong then thats the end of my debate). If the DO can cause Saidar to fail, then the forces of the Light are in alot of trouble. It is more likely in my opinion that the cleansing had some side effects on Saidar, which may or may not be temporary.

[SinisterDeath]

The issue with the food supplies is the work of the DO, Rj even stated that himself, that and Saidar Is not failing. Everything can be explained by Either The DO's touch on the world. *Its not beyond reason that he can make "weaves" stop working... after all his mere touch can instantly kill, destroy, create things he wills.... Hell he is somehow able to support a massive army of trollocs, Change the globals weather patterns.

 

As for any other times Saidar has been said to "fail" can be explained by the do, or Elayne/nyneave/windfinders + bowl of winds, And Elaynes exploding gateway..

 

Also, wasnt the food going bad, before they clensed Sadain?

[hapazard]

The Wheel of Time FAQ website has considerd this theory:

 

http://www.steelypips.org/wotfaq/2_nondark/2.3_one-power/2.3.17_saidar-weak.html

[joe]

I guess the food question is settled then, if RJ said it himself.

 

"As for any other times Saidar has been said to "fail" can be explained by the do, or Elayne/nyneave/windfinders + bowl of winds, And Elaynes exploding gateway."

 

This doesn't preclude the cleansing from having a part in the explanation as well, especially because it dealt with many times the amount of the Power AND the taint; two things which could be disasterous.

[SinisterDeath]

The thing with the gateway/bowl of winds, is many people through out time have stated that, as one of the reasons for saidar going whacky. When it is quite clear that all the evidence pointing to saidar "failing" has to do with The food *which is explained via the DO*, and the areas near the gate/bowl of winds.

[Dionysus]

Didnt Alviarin admit to corrupting the White Tower food supplies, and now they are maintaining now that Tarna is checking on the weaves? (im slightly drunk and really tired, prolly wrong)

 

And the Salidar camp had a Forsaken there that would be more than capable of spoiling food supplies, especially considering no one there can really detect him.

[Lews Therin Telamon]

saidar isnt the only one that experienced these "gaps" as they called it. I remember when the wards on the White Tower food werent working, but also that time when Dashiva/Osan'gar got mad at Rand when he himself had done a ward that had the gaps. I think its just a sign of reality becoming unstable, like dead people walking (which Elaida confirmed as a sign of the Last Battle coming).

 

Also all of the taint was pushed out during the cleansing which is why Shadar Logoth was destroyed in the process.

[rochaid]

i'm pretty sure the weirdness with saidin and saidar is due to the over-stressing of the ter'angreal(bowl of winds).the bowl drew on saidin which is why that was also affected,and the failings of the food are the DO,not the wards,as it is happening everywhere,as others have already stated.maybe the unraveling of reality also has a part to play here

[TheDiceAgain...]

Completely off topic, but there is something immensely appropriate about that last post. Someone name Dionysis, saying that they're a little drunk....

 

Just struck me as funny...

[Shards of fire]

A theory that is theoraticallly possible , but keep in mind , like what others have said before - that thw Dark One could easily temper with weavings and creating ward failures.

 

But , if the cleansing would have tainted saidar in the process , would'nt Lew Therin been adding it , along with his rants of the perils of Choeden Kal?