Demandred

[Terez]

I realize there are like a billion threads on Demandred, but no one seems to care much, so I figured I'd start another. I just finished a FAQ article on Demandred, so I figured I would throw it out there. Let me know if there are other theories you think worth representing on the page, or if you have any other helpful criticism. Just be prepared for the fact that I might dismiss your opinion if it is not sufficiently supported by evidence and/or logic. There was a Demandred thread on page 2 that I just scoured to fill out the loony theories - I don't pay much attention to them usually - but I only have four. Others have been suggested but they are so out there that adding them would really be superfluous. But I might be missing some almost-believable ones. I might add Proxy Alsalam to the loony theories. Have to think on it some more.

[UncleButcher1980]

Maybe he's the Dark One?

[Terez]

Too loony. Demandred is the only Forsaken who has actually been seen talking to the Dark One, though Moridin apparently speaks with his voice sometimes and talks to him in his head. Now, Moridin=Shaidar Haran is a worthy loony theory as they have never been seen on screen together and do not think of each other in their POVs.

[David Selig]

Great job, Terez.

 

I definitely agree that if Demandred has an alter ego, it has to be Roedran. Nobody else makes sense given the restrictions placed by the Jordan and Sanderson's statements on the matter.

 

My old loony theory Weiramondred was shot down long time ago, and I hadn't come up with a new one yet.

[UncleButcher1980]

Too loony. Demandred is the only Forsaken who has actually been seen talking to the Dark One, though Moridin apparently speaks with his voice sometimes and talks to him in his head. Now, Moridin=Shaidar Haran is a worthy loony theory as they have never been seen on screen together and do not think of each other in their POVs.

 

Unless the whole talking to the Dark One scene was some kind of monologue. I like the Moridin=Shaidar Haran thing, got any more info on that?

[Terez]

Great job, Terez.

Thanks!

 

 

I like the Moridin=Shaidar Haran thing, got any more info on that?

Nah, it's just a loony theory based entirely on the facts I mentioned. More likely is that they are just working together. They don't seem to disagree on much if anything. Both of them are extensions of the Dark One in a way, especially now that Moridin is talking to the Dark One in his head and speaking with his voice, but they are most likely completely separate.

[Finnssss22]

Summed up and detailed very nicely, good job man.

 

Almost exactly what I have been thinking and posting about right down to the pipe and its' consequences for Talmanes and the Band if Demy is indeed Roedran.

 

Process of elimination combined with new tidbits in ToM really leaves no other possibility and I will be shocked to find out otherwise.

[Terez]

Summed up and detailed very nicely, good job man.

I am a girl! But thanks.

 

Almost exactly what I have been thinking and posting about right down to the pipe and its' consequences for Talmanes and the Band if Demy is indeed Roedran.

Did you also speculate on a possible Finder weave? I haven't seen that anywhere.

[UncleButcher1980]

I agree, great summing up, can't argue with it being Roedran. I like to looney theories though, the Portal Stones one sounds fun.

[herid]

I realize there are like a billion threads on Demandred, but no one seems to care much, so I figured I'd start another. I just finished a FAQ article on Demandred, so I figured I would throw it out there. Let me know if there are other theories you think worth representing on the page, or if you have any other helpful criticism. Just be prepared for the fact that I might dismiss your opinion if it is not sufficiently supported by evidence and/or logic. There was a Demandred thread on page 2 that I just scoured to fill out the loony theories - I don't pay much attention to them usually - but I only have four. Others have been suggested but they are so out there that adding them would really be superfluous. But I might be missing some almost-believable ones. I might add Proxy Alsalam to the loony theories. Have to think on it some more.

Very interesting as always. I still don't believe that Demandred is Roedran though.

Mainly, because I don't see him showering Talmanes with gifts and letting him leave. Not something a Forsaken would do. You mention that Comadrin's book would be an excuse for Roedran's sudden military skills. But we don't actually have evidence of him becoming a good field general. Talmanes sounds pretty dismissive of Roedran when he mentions this. Presumably, he would know. and in any case, I don't see why he would need any kind of excuse at all, certainly not in the eyes of someone like Talmanes. And actually paying Talmanes and giving him a copy of the book?! I don't see Demandred doing that. At the very least he would have put some serious compulsion on Talmanes (no extra gifts needed then).

 

The theory with the pipe is very interesting. I've never thought of it. but it seems quite tenuous at the moment without more evidence. Also, I don't quite understand why Demandred would put a tracker like that on Talmanes of all people. He is very peripheral to Rand and it's not even clear at that time that he'll get together with Mat any time soon or at all.

 

All that said, I would consider it more likely that Demandred might be pulling strings on Roedran but is not Roedran himself (something like Rhavin was with Morgase). It was mentioned that he likes using proxies. That would sit better with me as far as Roedran's treatment of Talmanes is concerned.

 

 

BTW, as far as loony theories go, how about this one. Demandred could be in the borderlands somewhere. The rulers have been gone from there a very long time. someone has to run things in their absence. and we know that at least in Saldea a darkfriend was in charge.

[Elan Tedronai]

the biggest failure of the series is more like it. he better do something in AMOL. I am not holding my breath though,

 

sorry terez if i sound abit pissed. I just had high hopes for demy and he has been a non entity for ages now

[Finnssss22]

Summed up and detailed very nicely, good job man.

I am a girl! But thanks.

 

Almost exactly what I have been thinking and posting about right down to the pipe and its' consequences for Talmanes and the Band if Demy is indeed Roedran.

Did you also speculate on a possible Finder weave? I haven't seen that anywhere.

 

Sorry mam, nice job my lady.

 

Absolute mention of the "Finders weave" no, just the implication of the pipe and book gifts if Demy turns out to be Roedran.

 

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/55602-where-is-demandreds-army-coming-from/

Ruling out Murandy are we?

 

Doubt it's Shara as Graendal all but admits that she was the one that sent the whole region into chaos.

Not likely Seanchan either as that was Semirhage's play ground.

Portal stone worlds would be lame.

The Blight I agree is Moridin's.

Land of Madmen would be my second and preferred guess after Murandy. I say preferred because I do not like the prospect of my favorite secondary character Talmanes having that much contact with Roedran, not to mention having the pipe and book that Roedran gifted him with.

I also remember reading a Q&A saying that the Land of Madmen would make an appearance before the end but who knows how much of an appearance that would be.

[Terez]

the biggest failure of the series is more like it. he better do something in AMOL. I am not holding my breath though

Brandon's words, not mine.

 

I realize there are like a billion threads on Demandred, but no one seems to care much, so I figured I'd start another. I just finished a FAQ article on Demandred, so I figured I would throw it out there. Let me know if there are other theories you think worth representing on the page, or if you have any other helpful criticism. Just be prepared for the fact that I might dismiss your opinion if it is not sufficiently supported by evidence and/or logic. There was a Demandred thread on page 2 that I just scoured to fill out the loony theories - I don't pay much attention to them usually - but I only have four. Others have been suggested but they are so out there that adding them would really be superfluous. But I might be missing some almost-believable ones. I might add Proxy Alsalam to the loony theories. Have to think on it some more.

Very interesting as always. I still don't believe that Demandred is Roedran though.

Mainly, because I don't see him showering Talmanes with gifts and letting him leave. Not something a Forsaken would do.

That is a pretty vague argument, especially considering that I gave a reason why he would give them gifts - the pipe at least. I should probably add something in there about the fact that he probably planted a few agents in the Band.

 

You mention that Comadrin's book would be an excuse for Roedran's sudden military skills. But we don't actually have evidence of him becoming a good field general.

Except that the plan to use the Band was his idea, and that it worked?

 

Talmanes sounds pretty dismissive of Roedran when he mentions this.

I think he was more dismissive of the idea that a book could make one a great captain.

 

I don't see why he would need any kind of excuse at all, certainly not in the eyes of someone like Talmanes.

*shrug* Because it has the potential to put off questions about why he all of a sudden has this military competence that he never displayed before.

 

And actually paying Talmanes and giving him a copy of the book?! I don't see Demandred doing that.

Why not? He only had two options - pay him and give him a few token gifts with a few hooks in them and let him go to maybe make use of him in the future, or come out of the closet and use the Power to destroy the Band (which would draw Rand's attention to him most certainly, or to Murandy at least). Presumably the Band was bigger than his army, and better trained to boot. He might have Compelled him over the business of the money, but why? It's not as if it's difficult for him to get his hands on money.

 

At the very least he would have put some serious compulsion on Talmanes (no extra gifts needed then).

We have never seen Demandred use Compulsion. Some Forsaken prefer other methods.

 

The theory with the pipe is very interesting. I've never thought of it. but it seems quite tenuous at the moment without more evidence. Also, I don't quite understand why Demandred would put a tracker like that on Talmanes of all people.

Because he leads the Band in Mat's absence. Where Talmanes is, so the Band probably will be as well.

[gambril]

The best Demandrad theory you'll find is by Doma on WoT messageboards (imo). I'm too lazy atm to go over there and do a search on his post following the release of ToM so I'll just copy/paste it from a post I made about what Demandrad's up to a month or two ago.

 

I stated this in another thread, but I'll say it again here and move on.

 

I believe Taim is just Demandrads Lieutenent and always has been. He's just a Dreadlord for the Shadow and always has been.

 

Everything I say here comes from a poster named Doma on wheel of time messageboard, whom is one of the best posters of any WOT board I've seen btw.

 

Basically he says and I agree with him 100% that: Taim is just a Drealord (already said)

 

Evidnce for Taim being Demandrads man is leaked in TOM in our scenes at the Black Tower; also leaked in the epilogue of KoD showing us that this is really a Forsaken's planned headquarters. Remember the guys that are way too advanced that come to the Black Tower that Androl notices in his thoughts? These are simply other dreadlords that have been given to Taim by Demandrad now that the end game has started and the Shadow is starting to play all its pieces on the board. The time for Darkfriends to be hiding in the Shadows has ended. Demandrad is moving his pieces in place before his opening strike.

 

Basically, what Doma said and what we will come to find out is Taim was only given enough Dreadlords at the BT for security and to escape notice. The rest were sent via gateway to the Blight and forcibly turned via 13x13 to the Shadow or wherever Demandrads/Moridin's headquarters are for the Shadow Training Facility (red-veiled anyone?). Remember, the way the BT recruited via gateways and such they should have way more people there than they currently do. The WT got 1k apprentices just traveling through Murandy lol.

 

This is also why Demandrad and the Dark One are laughing at the end of Lord of Chaos. Rand by openly declaring men untouchable and openly recruiting them to the BT gave Demandrad the perfect opportunity to use Taim (one of his proxies) to openly recruit men for his forces.

 

The Black Tower is Demandrads planned headquarters in the South. Moridin's headquarters is in the Blight. This is why the Dreamspike is there. Moridin implies that Demandrad was given the other Dreamspike and the Dreamspike is at the Black Tower, so this should be pretty obvious. We also know from Perrin's POV's in TOM that the Dreamspike can cover more ground than it is currently covering in TOM at the BT. Once the BT is secure, Demandrad will arrive and extend the Dreamspike to cover Caemlyn - it's only 5 miles away. This time is very close, it's basically the next scene after the attack on Caemlyn in TOM epilogue. Once Demandrad secures Caemlyn and extends the Dreamspike, the Light is screwed and Caemlyn is lost; at least for the first half of the book. One major struggle will most likely involve Mat taking/defending Caemlyn.

 

People have expressed disapointment in the lack of Demandrad accomplisments thusfar but....in reality his opening blows at the end of TOM/into AMOL will morph all the accomplishments of all the previous Forsaken before him. In one opening move, he will have moved the Shadow's forces through the Ways and Portal Stones to take over Caemlyn, secure the Black Tower, take over Tear, Illian and Cairhen. He even could be making a play at Ebou Dar while the Seanchan are at the White Tower.

 

So at the opening of AMOL while all the Light's forces are gathered at the Field of Merrilor and the Seanchan are at the White Tower....they will have lost all their cities and the White Tower will become the last remining bastion for the Light....just like that and all this is Demandrads plan. It's pretty brilliant really.

 

Above all, Demandrad despises Lews Therin and anything Lews Therin accomplishes, Demandrad wants to outdo. So the logical reasoning is Demandrads plan will be to conquer everything Lews Therin has done and erase all his acomplishments and he will do it in one fell swoop.

 

Remember in KOD when Rand returns to Tear and Min has a vision where she sees half the citizens dying and Rand tells Darlin to take in one of the children and make sure he's taken care of? This is the result of Demandrads forces assaulting Tear in the opening strikes of the Last Battle. The Last Battle has started and the Light is going to have to really dig in their heels and overcome the adversity of being severly crippled in one massive blow by Demandrad and the Shadow ><. We were only given a glimpse of Demandrad's opening strike against Caemlyn. News of his full strike will start trickling in during/after the meeting at FOM.

 

*If you want the real version of the theory stated better, I would be willing to find Doma's post and post it here just for clarities sake. He does say it better than I, after all

[MasterAblar]

If Demandred is Roedran, why did it take him 10 books (or rather 9 since he was not free yet in EotW) to start taking control of Murandy? Also giving a book full of great military advice to your enemy does not strike me a good idea. And Demandred certainly does not strike me as a fool.

Didn't Greandal not say she has spies everywhere. No reason for her not to have any in Murandy.

[Mats Spare Hat]

Demandred is Scraps. King of the Randland Strays.

 

You can't find him in TAR, because he's a domesticated animal. Nobody's seen him, because nobody expects the dog. His rule is secure, cus he pisses on all the right corners...

 

The only thing weaker than Demandred?

 

 

 

...His use in the serieswide plotline.

[Terez]

If Demandred is Roedran, why did it take him 10 books (or rather 9 since he was not free yet in EotW) to start taking control of Murandy? Also giving a book full of great military advice to your enemy does not strike me a good idea. And Demandred certainly does not strike me as a fool.

Didn't Greandal not say she has spies everywhere. No reason for her not to have any in Murandy.

He started in book 8 with Talmanes, but nothing to say he hadn't been working on it for some time before then. I provided evidence that he might have been getting ambitious back in LOC in the article, though you might have missed it. Also, I made it clear that he has probably been up to many things. There's nothing to say he should have set up shop there in the early books.

 

Also, Dom's theory is more about explaining Taim than it is about explaining Demandred, and I covered the issue of the Black Tower in the article. It also does nothing to address the Brandon quotes I gave which suggest that Taim does have an alter ego.

[Finnssss22]

The best Demandrad theory you'll find is by Doma on WoT messageboards (imo). I'm too lazy atm to go over there and do a search on his post following the release of ToM so I'll just copy/paste it from a post I made about what Demandrad's up to a month or two ago.

 

I stated this is another thread, but I'll say it again here and move on.

 

I believe Taim is just Demandrads Lieutenent and always has been. He's just a Dreadlord for the Shadow and always has been.

 

Everything I say here comes from a poster named Doma on wheel of time messageboard, whom is one of the best posters of any WOT board I've seen btw.

 

Basically he says and I agree with him 100% that: Taim is just a Drealord (already said)

 

Evidnce for Taim being Demandrads man is leaked in TOM in our scenes at the Black Tower. Remember the guys that are way too advanced that come to the Black Tower that Androl notices in his thoughts? These are simply other dreadlords that have been given to Taim by Demandrad now that the end game has started and the Shadow is starting to play all its pieces on the board. The time for Darkfriends to be hiding in the Shadows has ended. Demandrad is moving his pieces in place before his opening strike.

 

Basically, what Doma said and what we will come to find out is Taim was only given enough Dreadlords at the BT for security and to escape notice. The rest were sent via gateway to the Blight and forcibly turned via 13x13 to the Shadow or wherever Demandrads/Moridin's headquarters are for the Shadow Training Facility (red-veiled anyone?). Remember, the way the BT recruited via gateways and such they should have way more people there than they currently do. The WT got 1k apprentices just traveling through Murandy lol.

 

This is also why Demandrad and the Dark One are laughing at the end of Lord of Chaos. Rand by openly declaring men untouchable and openly recruiting them to the BT gave Demandrad the perfect opportunity to use Taim (one of his proxies) to openly recruit men for his forces.

 

The Black Tower is Demandrads planned headquarters in the South. Moridin's headquarters is in the Blight. This is why the Dreamspike is there. Moridin told us that Demandrad was given the other Dreamspike and the Dreamspike is at the Black Tower, so this should be pretty obvious. We also know from Perrin's POV's in TOM that the Dreamspike can cover more ground than it is currently covering in TOM at the BT. Once the BT is secure, Demandrad will arive and extend the Dreamspike to cover Caemlyn - it's only 5 miles away. This time is very close, it's basically the next scene after the attack on Caemlyn in TOM epilogue. Once Demandrad secures Caemlyn and extends the Dreamspike, the Light is screwed and Caemlyn is lost.

 

People have expressed disapointment in the lack of Demandrad accomplisments thusfar but....in reality his opening blows at the end of TOM/into AMOL will morph all the accomplishments of all the previous Forsaken before him. In one opening move, he will have moved the Shadow's forces through the Ways and Portal Stones to take over Caemlyn, secure the Black Tower, take over Tear, Illian and Cairhen. He even could be making a play at Ebou Dar while the Seanchan are at the White Tower.

 

So at the opening of AMOL while all the Light's forces are gathered at the Field of Merrilor and the Seanchan are at the White Tower....they will have lost all their cities and the White Tower will become the last remining bastion for the Light....just like that and all this is Demandrads plan. It's pretty brilliant really.

 

Above all, Demandrad despises Lews Therin and anything Lews Therin accomplishes, Demandrad wants to outdo. So the logical reasoning is Demandrads plan will be to conquer everything Lews Therin has done and erase all his acomplishments and he will do it in one fell swoop.

 

Remember in KOD when Rand returns to Tear and Min has a vision where she sees half the citizens dying and Rand tells Darlin to take in one of the children and make sure he's taken care of? This is the result of Demandrads forces assaulting Tear in the opening strikes of the Last Battle. The Last Battle has started and the Light is going to have to really dig in their heels and overcome the adversity of being severly crippled in one massive blow by Demandrad and the Shadow ><.

 

*If you want the real version of the theory stated better, I would be willing to find Doma's post and post it here just for clarities sake. He does say it better than I, after all

 

 

See this doesn't fly with me for a few reasons.

First, Taim has been channeling a long time and has unexplained knowledge from the AoL which really gives the notion that he was taught and only one Forsaken was free to teach him and that's Ishy/Moridin.

Second, Moridin's "guards" in his Blight fortress are most certainly Asha'man.

Third, the second Dreamspike is/was Moridin's and it's obviously at the BT.

Fourthly, I find it odd that Demy would order Kisman and Rochaid to kill Rand and not let Taim know about it, if Demy was indeed ordering Taim around, what would it matter.

Much more likely he is trying to hide it from Taim's true master Moridin imo.

 

 

Not saying there's not merit to the theory, I just don't buy it myself.

[herid]

the biggest failure of the series is more like it. he better do something in AMOL. I am not holding my breath though

Brandon's words, not mine.

 

I realize there are like a billion threads on Demandred, but no one seems to care much, so I figured I'd start another. I just finished a FAQ article on Demandred, so I figured I would throw it out there. Let me know if there are other theories you think worth representing on the page, or if you have any other helpful criticism. Just be prepared for the fact that I might dismiss your opinion if it is not sufficiently supported by evidence and/or logic. There was a Demandred thread on page 2 that I just scoured to fill out the loony theories - I don't pay much attention to them usually - but I only have four. Others have been suggested but they are so out there that adding them would really be superfluous. But I might be missing some almost-believable ones. I might add Proxy Alsalam to the loony theories. Have to think on it some more.

Very interesting as always. I still don't believe that Demandred is Roedran though.

Mainly, because I don't see him showering Talmanes with gifts and letting him leave. Not something a Forsaken would do.

That is a pretty vague argument, especially considering that I gave a reason why he would give them gifts - the pipe at least. I should probably add something in there about the fact that he probably planted a few agents in the Band.

 

sorry, yes, you did give an explanation for letting him leave. But the part about showering him with gifts (other than the pipe) is still very strange to me. this is very much out of character for any Forsaken that we've seen to do something like that.

 

You mention that Comadrin's book would be an excuse for Roedran's sudden military skills. But we don't actually have evidence of him becoming a good field general.

Except that the plan to use the Band was his idea, and that it worked?

That's a FAR cry from being a great general. Elayne did something very much like that when she used the borderlanders to unite the andorans and she is no general. when I mentioned a field general I meant someone commanding armies in battle. That's what Comadrin was. That's what Mat and Talmanes are. and Demandred was apparently very good at it too. We don't have any indication of Roedran doing it or being good at it.

 

Talmanes sounds pretty dismissive of Roedran when he mentions this.

I think he was more dismissive of the idea that a book could make one a great captain.

It's more than that. It indicates that Talmanes doesn't think that Roedran is a good general at the moment or he wouldn't phrase it that way.

 

I don't see why he would need any kind of excuse at all, certainly not in the eyes of someone like Talmanes.

*shrug* Because it has the potential to put off questions about why he all of a sudden has this military competence that he never displayed before.

As I said I find this explanation weak. I don't see why he needs any kind of excuse in front of Talmanes. I doubt anybody else (like Egwene) would hear about this excuse at all so it's not really working as an excuse. And as I mentioned, we've seen Roedran suddenly becoming good at scheming (this does lend credence to your theory, I admit); but we haven't seen him becoming any kind of general (good or bad).

 

And actually paying Talmanes and giving him a copy of the book?! I don't see Demandred doing that.

Why not? He only had two options - pay him and give him a few token gifts with a few hooks in them and let him go to maybe make use of him in the future, or come out of the closet and use the Power to destroy the Band (which would draw Rand's attention to him most certainly, or to Murandy at least). Presumably the Band was bigger than his army, and better trained to boot. He might have Compelled him over the business of the money, but why? It's not as if it's difficult for him to get his hands on money.

 

At the very least he would have put some serious compulsion on Talmanes (no extra gifts needed then).

We have never seen Demandred use Compulsion. Some Forsaken prefer other methods.

 

that's true. but we hardly saw Demandred on screen at all so who knows what he likes. I don't see why he would hesitate to use compulsion if it was opportune.

[gambril]

The best Demandrad theory you'll find is by Doma on WoT messageboards (imo). I'm too lazy atm to go over there and do a search on his post following the release of ToM so I'll just copy/paste it from a post I made about what Demandrad's up to a month or two ago.

 

I stated this is another thread, but I'll say it again here and move on.

 

I believe Taim is just Demandrads Lieutenent and always has been. He's just a Dreadlord for the Shadow and always has been.

 

Everything I say here comes from a poster named Doma on wheel of time messageboard, whom is one of the best posters of any WOT board I've seen btw.

 

Basically he says and I agree with him 100% that: Taim is just a Drealord (already said)

 

Evidnce for Taim being Demandrads man is leaked in TOM in our scenes at the Black Tower. Remember the guys that are way too advanced that come to the Black Tower that Androl notices in his thoughts? These are simply other dreadlords that have been given to Taim by Demandrad now that the end game has started and the Shadow is starting to play all its pieces on the board. The time for Darkfriends to be hiding in the Shadows has ended. Demandrad is moving his pieces in place before his opening strike.

 

Basically, what Doma said and what we will come to find out is Taim was only given enough Dreadlords at the BT for security and to escape notice. The rest were sent via gateway to the Blight and forcibly turned via 13x13 to the Shadow or wherever Demandrads/Moridin's headquarters are for the Shadow Training Facility (red-veiled anyone?). Remember, the way the BT recruited via gateways and such they should have way more people there than they currently do. The WT got 1k apprentices just traveling through Murandy lol.

 

This is also why Demandrad and the Dark One are laughing at the end of Lord of Chaos. Rand by openly declaring men untouchable and openly recruiting them to the BT gave Demandrad the perfect opportunity to use Taim (one of his proxies) to openly recruit men for his forces.

 

The Black Tower is Demandrads planned headquarters in the South. Moridin's headquarters is in the Blight. This is why the Dreamspike is there. Moridin told us that Demandrad was given the other Dreamspike and the Dreamspike is at the Black Tower, so this should be pretty obvious. We also know from Perrin's POV's in TOM that the Dreamspike can cover more ground than it is currently covering in TOM at the BT. Once the BT is secure, Demandrad will arive and extend the Dreamspike to cover Caemlyn - it's only 5 miles away. This time is very close, it's basically the next scene after the attack on Caemlyn in TOM epilogue. Once Demandrad secures Caemlyn and extends the Dreamspike, the Light is screwed and Caemlyn is lost.

 

People have expressed disapointment in the lack of Demandrad accomplisments thusfar but....in reality his opening blows at the end of TOM/into AMOL will morph all the accomplishments of all the previous Forsaken before him. In one opening move, he will have moved the Shadow's forces through the Ways and Portal Stones to take over Caemlyn, secure the Black Tower, take over Tear, Illian and Cairhen. He even could be making a play at Ebou Dar while the Seanchan are at the White Tower.

 

So at the opening of AMOL while all the Light's forces are gathered at the Field of Merrilor and the Seanchan are at the White Tower....they will have lost all their cities and the White Tower will become the last remining bastion for the Light....just like that and all this is Demandrads plan. It's pretty brilliant really.

 

Above all, Demandrad despises Lews Therin and anything Lews Therin accomplishes, Demandrad wants to outdo. So the logical reasoning is Demandrads plan will be to conquer everything Lews Therin has done and erase all his acomplishments and he will do it in one fell swoop.

 

Remember in KOD when Rand returns to Tear and Min has a vision where she sees half the citizens dying and Rand tells Darlin to take in one of the children and make sure he's taken care of? This is the result of Demandrads forces assaulting Tear in the opening strikes of the Last Battle. The Last Battle has started and the Light is going to have to really dig in their heels and overcome the adversity of being severly crippled in one massive blow by Demandrad and the Shadow ><.

 

*If you want the real version of the theory stated better, I would be willing to find Doma's post and post it here just for clarities sake. He does say it better than I, after all

 

 

See this doesn't fly with me for a few reasons.

First, Taim has been channeling a long time and has unexplained knowledge from the AoL which really gives the notion that he was taught and only one Forsaken was free to teach him and that's Ishy/Moridin.

Second, Moridin's "guards" in his Blight fortress are most certainly Asha'man.

Third, the second Dreamspike is/was Moridin's and it's obviously at the BT.

Fourthly, I find it odd that Demy would order Kisman and Rochaid to kill Rand and not let Taim know about it, if Demy was indeed ordering Taim around, what would it matter.

Much more likely he is trying to hide it from Taim's true master Moridin imo.

 

 

Not saying there's not merit to the theory, I just don't buy it myself.

 

I can understand that. My laziness will my undoing I suppose. Therefore, I will trudge through Doma's post and copy/paste what he said here and see if his words can convince ya better . Be back with it 30 min., hopefully lol.

[gambril]

Kay, here we go. These are the ones he post solely on what Demandrad's up to.

 

The way I read it, the book implied that many of the newly raised Asha'man had been 13x13'd

 

I don't think it's what the situation implied at all.

 

Rather, it seems many of Taim's new recruits are progressing way too fast, and show too much strength too fast, to be what they claim to be.

 

These men aren't recruits at all They are fully trained Dreadlords, sent to reinforce those Taim trains at the BT, and help him bring the endgame about (it involves turning all the Lightside men and women channellers there).

 

It's becoming more and more obvious. Taim's faction is merely the tip of the iceberg. He isn't in charge of the male dreadlords, he's just a lieutenant, with the special mission to remain at the BT, control it and how and in what the men are trained (he knows everything about the Asha'man, their tactics, their knowledge... their weaknesses, including those he probably managed to manipulating into adopting, through flawed training) for as long as Rand left him in charge - and ultimately destroy Rand's efforts.

 

The male dreadlords aren't Asha'man, and it appears the core of them weren't even trained anywhere near the BT. There is another secret organization elsewhere, in which Taim and his men have ranks and all. Taim had already been taught how to test and recruit before he was sent to Rand! Most of the men found by the Shadow have been sent elsewhere, to someone else. Taim was given only those he needed for his mission within the BT, without attracting too much attention (it was a close call with Logain).

 

Now the endgame is coming. Demandred is gathering his whole forces and about to enter his southern headquarters, from where he'll lead the war. Taim has been ordered to "clean up" the BT of the Light's forces. The move to capture Caemlyn is underway. Demandred must be moving to capture all the Waygates and Portal Stones he can, right at the beginning. He's planning to singlehandly undo the failures of the Shadow's generals, and re capture their planned fortresses. Demandred will have or try to have Tear, Illian, Cairhien, Rhuidean... and Caemlyn. If he succeeds, Demandred will soon turn Caemlyn into a fortified coral for Shadowspawn, keeping them fed with the population.

 

Moridin intends to direct the war from the North, in the Blight - and barely leaves his fortress, protected by some of Demandred's non-Asha'man dreadlords. Demandred will lead the war from the South. He's waiting from Taim to finish the clean up to come claim his dreamspike protected headquarters.

 

Demandred's interest in Caemlyn goes way back, and it was to be right between forces Semirhage only needed to turn Tuon to the Shadow to control (and now, we know why this needed to wait until the last minute - the changes are too apparent), and the Tower undermined by Mesaana. Demandred won't have it as easy as he hoped, and worked for... but he might still be in a very advantageous position.

 

It sounds more and more like Mat will have to make his peace with the One Power and Aes Sedai, and lead them (men and women) to war. It sounds like Mat might be about to lose most of the Band left in Caemlyn, the same way its predecessor perished in the last stand of Manetheren... and for a while to equip the Shadow with dragons.... and the Creator knows what Demandred could make of all those bronze cast projectile weapons. With the right Talents among his men, he could easily transform them into something far more deadly...

 

It sounds like Elayne could find herself in Lan's situation soon, as Queen of realms fallen to the Shadow. Unless Rand sends his forces to Caemlyn, but this sounds more and more like Mesaana and others told Demandred and Moridin about Rand's meeting, and the Shadow had a full month to time and organize its initial assault in the South with deadly precision.

 

If news of this filter to the meeting, Rand might have a harder time convincing the world now's the good time to break the seals and increase manifold the Shadow's power.... if the attack didn't start the minute Rand broke the seals at the meeting, as seems quite possible. That would be extremely clever, as beside taken advantage of the Shadow's increase in strength, it sounds likely the Light forces will be less than enthusiastic about the seals, even if Rand manages to win his point by an hair. The Light's leaders will freak out, and it will be devasting to morale and confidence in Rand if the Shadow has a sudden and major military victory almost right on the heels of the breaking of the seals. Demandred is a military genius, but Moridin has also always been a master of psychological warfare...

 

Of course, it's possible LTT has anticipated Demandred, and has a plan within his professed plan to gather the Light and break the seals on that specific day.

 

*Another Doma Demandrad post*

 

I've often brought up the point in the past that I thought one of the things I imagined someone with Demandred's personality doing is that he would be obsessed with bettering Rand's achievements, and undermining Rand's efforts.

 

So in my opinion, Demandred was never far behind Rand through the series, corrupting his allies, coming up with better versions of what Rand gained.

 

Rand founded a training center for channellers? Demandred would have a pawn infiltrate it and create within it a much more powerful army for himself.

 

I never thought about the Aiel before, but Demandred has expressed his frustration with the fact Rand secured their allegiance ("cursed Aiel", "cursed Rhuidean" and so on).

 

I think Demandred has gathered an Aiel force of his own, to spite and mock Rand's Aiel followers. Are they channelers? Possibly. Maybe not all of them, perhaps all of them. We'll see. It's possible they include the male channelers who've gone to SG to die, and got turned to the Shadow instead. I'm not convinced either way, though it's either that or Aiel taken by the bleakness who got seduced, or turned.

 

I'm pretty convinced at this point that Demandred has assembled an "alliance" of his own (like apparently he had assembled his own group in echo to LTT's hundred companions.. these eighty and one, the one in question probably referring to Demandred himself). This will include Taim's Asha'man (I'm still sure Demandred is the mind behind the BT), the Red Veils, the remnants of the Black Ajah, perhaps Seanchan darkfriends, remnants of the Whitecloaks left behind by Asunawa, and who knows what else. Heck, it could even include the nation that's been ignored after all (Murandy, though it's very unlikely the Murandians will fight openly for the Shadow - they could still be sent to their doom in a move to create chaos among the Light.) I still think it's more likely the Murandians have been left alone because they're the last buffer between the Seanchan and Andor, and Jordan had something in mind there (like the Murandians allying with the Seanchan, and agreeing to draw the Andoran forces south by invading them, while the LB is already raging).

[Goldstar]

I don't find it at all inconcievable that he could be with the Seanchan. We know Demandred was working with Sem, and if, while Sem was handling the Return, Dem was back on Seanchan, this could sum up a lot of problems. First of all, it solves where Demandred's army is coming from, Seanchan, of course. Sammael said Dem was involved in events "to the south", while he was in Tarabon. Either he was talking about Arad Doman and the Seanchan Return landing nearby, or he was talking about the LoM, aproximately south of Illian, where Sammael made his base.

[gambril]

I don't find it at all inconcievable that he could be with the Seanchan. We know Demandred was working with Sem, and if, while Sem was handling the Return, Dem was back on Seanchan, this could sum up a lot of problems. First of all, it solves where Demandred's army is coming from, Seanchan, of course. Sammael said Dem was involved in events "to the south", while he was in Tarabon. Either he was talking about Arad Doman and the Seanchan Return landing nearby, or he was talking about the LoM, aproximately south of Illian, where Sammael made his base.

 

Naw, to understand Demandrad's plan, you have to understand his personality and driving motivation, which is to outdo any and all of Rand's accomplishments throughout the series. To trumph and spit on Rand, Demandrad style, his aim will be to prove superior to Lews Therin and finally prove that he was the greatest male of the second age, not Lews Therin. This means he's been staying out of sight, using proxies to infiltrate Rand's allies and use them against him.

 

Demandrad is not the type to impersonate someone, he's too proud for it. If you recall, he scoffs at the other Forsaken impersonating someone else. I think this was in the Forsaken tea party in Winter's Heart when they're discussing stopping Rand when he uses the Choedan Kol. Demandrad would love nothing better than to take over all Rand has done in one fell swoop and say to Moridin and the Dark One, "See how big of fools all those other Forsaken were?" There's also a reason Moridin favors him and gives Demandrad more leeway than all the other Forsaken ya know. Moirdin being Moirdin, understands Demandrad and approves of his plan. But he also understands Demandrad wouldn't hesistate to take his shot at killing Lews Therin despite Moridin's prohibition of it, so he's perfectly fine with letting Demandrad control the Shadow's war efforts in the south. Thus keeping him away from Rand and keeping him useful as his tool.

[Terez]

Dom still doesn't address the Brandon quotes, maybe because he's not really paying attention to anything Brandon says lately (not sure). I do need to add something about Moridin's guards and such - I mentioned it in the Black Tower article but it could stand a mention in this one too.

[Cybertrolloc]

Find it pretty hard to make the connection between greatest mystery of the series with the subject of a few pieces of throw-away dialog across the series :)

 

Here is the problem I see with the few Terez theories I've read (particularly the one on Theoryland's ToM board): start with conclusion then look for evidence, seemingly by keyword search (the theoryland one having a few glaring examples of evidence that isn't evidence). Perhaps there's areas where this is ok, maybe RJ/BS would use similar language or phrasing in hints dropped.

 

Well, there's long threads about Dem here anyway, including the Structured Discussion in which I've made awesome predictions that are 100% accurate.

 

So this will be another topic with which you'll have no interest after aMoL hits then? :)

 

ETA: What is this a FAQ entry for anyway?