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Vermillion

What happened to Dreamers and reading the pattern?

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In The Shadow Rising it was implied that the Dreamers could read the pattern and see what could be by going to places in TAR. But we have yet to see anything like this again where they dreamed scenarios of what could be. Eggy has vague Fortellings but not what was described by the Wise Ones.

Edited by Vermillion

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In The Shadow Rising it was implied that the Dreamers could read the pattern and see what could be by going to places in TAR. But we have yet to see anything like this again where they dreamed scenarios of what could be. Eggy has vague Fortellings but not what was described by the Wise Ones.

 

She left her training early. That's the only excuse I can think of and the one that most Eggy fans will probably fall back on.

 

We definitely see nothing from her Dreaming that even comes close to the letter the WO's sent to Moiraine in the Stone of Tear. They included specifics like dates, and people. She can sometimes get the people right, but we have yet to her her have an experience that would allow the type of date accuracy that the WO's showed.

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What if Reading The Pattern is a Talent? All Dreamers can do it to some extent, but the hyper accuracy of Moiraine's letter was because one or more of the Wise Ones has a special talent.

 

ie All Aes Sedai can Heal, but some can only manage bruises while others can heal almost anything. (Watch out Death--Nynaeave relishes a challenge!)

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The main prophecy Dreamers get I take to be during "normal" dreaming; not in Telaranrhiod.

 

Dreamwalkers also get prophecy in their dreams, but I take less often than Dreamers.

 

 

The other type of future predicting Talent is Foretelling; though from what I recall from other posters, that is like connected to the True Source.

 

Min's Viewings and/or the Aelfinn ability might be other Talents.

 

 

By the way, I do not recall the Wise Ones telling dates of the events to Moiraine.

No person with any of the predicting abilities could tell when a predicted event would happen; or even the order of multiple predictions.

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The main prophecy Dreamers get I take to be during "normal" dreaming; not in Telaranrhiod.

 

Dreamwalkers also get prophecy in their dreams, but I take less often than Dreamers.

 

 

The other type of future predicting Talent is Foretelling; though from what I recall from other posters, that is like connected to the True Source.

 

Min's Viewings and/or the Aelfinn ability might be other Talents.

 

 

By the way, I do not recall the Wise Ones telling dates of the events to Moiraine.

No person with any of the predicting abilities could tell when a predicted event would happen; or even the order of multiple predictions.

 

No they told Moiraine in a letter she would be somewhere with Rand on a certain day and waited for them. The letter was waiting for Moiraine before she got to Tear. They also told her that if Lan didn't come she would die and if Rand didn't come he would die. One of them slipped and said that Moiraine would ask to go inside the pillars to see possible lives.

 

The theme of possible lives was in those few books with the portal stones and the pillars and dreamers seeing possible outcomes.

 

Nobody else has showed that kind of control like that. Maybe Moridin does.

 

All of the prophetic dreams have taken place in normal dreams. But if I remember correctly TaR was where they got the events from some how. For Perrin they seem to come in both Wolf and Normal dreams.

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BUT the rings are different for every woman.

 

they see THEIR lives/possible future lives.

 

example avienda and elayne when rand cleansing saiden, elayne wanting to go, avienda going no and says she remembers from taking her test to become an apprentice that something "bad" would happen if they went.

 

that said maybe all 3/4 dreamers had the same part in the rings and discussed it, but i do not think so, personally i think jordan just screwed up and initially made the dreamers TOO powerful, and in the future books toned down the ability.

 

the letter was not waiting for her in tear, it Arrived, given to her ON THAT DAy saying that they would meet the next day and that lan may or may not go, rand may or may not go, but if they did not go, she would die.

 

while in the sweat tent melaine? let leak about moraine going into the rings. and changed things

 

moraine in her trip back and her confrontation with lanfear, KNEW from her trip what could happen.

 

she knew lanfear would attack, she knew via the rings what she HAD to do to get lanfear and her thru the doorway,

 

she knew...crap cannot do spoilers... in the letter she wrote she "saw" the various attempts by matt and thom to rescue her and she tried to guide them to the best path when the rescue attempt is made.

 

however she saw it all, all the failures to escape, all the successes to escape, and attempts in that letter to have the best outcome.

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No they told Moiraine in a letter she would be somewhere with Rand on a certain day and waited for them.
Read a short while ago the passage where the letter was first mentioned and the passage where they arrive at Rhuidean. Only day mentioned in either passage was of when guy received the letter.

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Maybe Egwene just is not as good as she and others think she is? Reading the Dreams comes from within and cannot be taught. I assume there's a Talent connected with it.

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