amyrlin seat= jordan's idea of a good president?

[papelr]

so i realized.... the amyrlin seat is supposed to be of all ajahs. could this be jordan's ideal president of the united states? one who rises above the parties to govern with an even hand, much like the amyrlin is supposed to?

 

just some food for thought

 

so it goes

[Evoke]

so i realized.... the amyrlin seat is supposed to be of all ajahs. could this be jordan's ideal president of the united states? one who rises above the parties to govern with an even hand, much like the amyrlin is supposed to?

 

just some food for thought

 

so it goes

 

The President governs for the same hand no matter which party wins, so in a way it's true.

[Beidomon]

I know this is an international board, so maybe you guys don't know much about American politics, but the PotUS does not renounce his party simply because he is elected. While they may pay a little lip service to "being the President of all Americans, not just Republicans or Democrats," the PotUS still remains very much the symbolic leader of his party. He continues to campaign and fundraise for his party (using taxpayer funds, by the way) while in office, and is the spearhead for his party's agenda. About the only similarity between the Amyrlin and PotUS is that they're both leaders.

 

Comparing the Amyrlin to the Pope would be a much closer analogy.

[HighWiredSith]

As best I can tell, there are no democracies in Wot, at least among the wetlanders. There does, if memory serves, seem to be modified versions of self governance among the Aiel but for the most part, the governments and organizations are theocracies or monarchies in very feudal like system where inherited "houses" often directly support a royal family.

 

The Aies Sedai seem to give almost absolute authority to the Amyrlin Seat with a council of sisters acting as a kind of advisory board and as a self appointed committee when it comes time to appoint a successor to the Amyrlin Seat. I would suggest any comparisons to the modified democratic republic model of the United States is trivial.

 

This sort of raises other intriguing questions in my own mind. For example, what is the religion of Randland? Prayers are mentioned, but to whom. The so-called Creator is also mentioned but most seem to believe He or She to have little involvement in the pattern - that events are simply wound up and set loose like a wind up toy, to go where they will. The Children of the Light are often described in religious terms as religious zealots yet they seem to have no comprehensive system of belief other than this vague concept of good (the light) versus evil (the dark). One might view the Aes Sedai themselves as a religious or quasi-religious organization, very much, as described, like the Vatican and yet they yield no real religious authority. Religion is a powerful motivator, often stronger and more enduring then monarchies. In a world full of history and mysticism, magic and myths, I find it unrealistic that there's no sense of organized religion of any kind. We all know that people in harsh environs will worship almost anything and yet we see none of that, no churches, no priests, no religious leaders (with the possible exception of this vague, somewhat stereotypical "Prophet" who seems to do little more than raise a ruckus here and there).

 

Sorry, sort of ran off with the topic...

[Beidomon]

Aside from the Creator, the Dark One, the "Light," the "Shadow," and a few mentions of prayer, there really is no reference to religion in WoT, and certainly not an organized religion. I'm not sure there is a single reference to a church, temple, altar, or other place of worship in the entire series.

 

RJ probably didn't write about it because he just didn't care, or he didn't want his story to get mired in religion. If you're searching for a deeper explanation, maybe the very existence of the One Power and Shadowspawn is sufficient manifestation of God and Satan that no further religion ever developed or was necessary in that world.

[HighWiredSith]

Another aspect, there's also this rather fierce independence among the lowest class as exhibited in the Two Rivers. Despite being a part of Andor and under the authority of the Queen they seem to function almost as an autonomous city-state even going so far, at least under "Lord Perrin," as to wield their own army. One gets the impression that this is common among the more rural societies even in other nations.

 

And an addendum to the religion discussion - would most agree that Rand, The Dragon Reborn, is much more a religious leader than a monarch? The fulfillment of prophecy, the passions with which people support or oppose him, the willingness to abandon monarchical ties... The Aiel surely see him as a god-like leader who will save the world (and break it). Just food for thought.

[randsc]

The prayer thing never made sense. The people seem to univerally acknowledge the pressence of a Creator. They also seem to univerally believe that that Creator doesn't take much in the way of a direct, continuing role in the affairs of the world.

 

What exactly are they saying when they pray? "Please, oh Creator, bless us with your continued inattention"?

 

Generally, I think Jordan put this stuff in, in the way he did, because he also thought a completely non-religious society was not realistic within the context of his world, but didn't want to get mired in the details. Similar to how he deals with race.

[Xader]

I think Jordan was probably using WT politics as a commentary on real-world democratic systems.

 

For example, the way Elaida always thought of herself as a Red, though she should have been impartial, and the way she gave the Red free reign in the Tower, while suppressing the other ajahs. I think that even Siuan was guilty of this to an extent.

 

This seems a parallel of the way the controlling party in any multi-partisan democratic system tends to run rough-shod over the minority party(ies) whenever they can. I think he was trying to use Egwene as the ideal figurehead, truly acting as of all parties, and of none.

[randsc]

I would be willing to bet that a search of the voter registry of Charleston, SC would reveal that James O. Rigney, Jr. was a member of a particular political party, even if the author Robert Jordan was espousing this sort of idealised bi-partisanship. Which I don't think he was.

[mb]

About democracies, there is at least one in this series:: village Mayors.

 

This page might shed some light on this topic::

http://www.encyclopaedia-wot.org/

 

From the page::

Aes Sedai: Aes Sedai organization is based on the way convents were organized between 1000 and 1800 AD. (RJ) Also, the Aes Sedai seem to have an "ecclesiastical" hierarchy, with the Hall of the Tower and the Amyrlin Seat being similar in nature to the College of Cardinals and the Pope. The current split in the Tower and election of two Amyrlins is similar to the Great Schism of the Roman Catholic Church (1378-1415), when two Popes claimed authority over the Church [Robert Dahm].

[blazetheearth]

I can't envision the Hall of the Tower + the Amrylin Seat as = to Congress + PotUS. To me, they read much more as British Parliament + King/Queen during Victorian Times. The Monarch (Amyrlin) has absolute authority in decrees and pronouncements, but if the Parliament (the Hall) balks at forwarding the decrees then there is not much the Monarch can do about it without invading (pronouncing penance, for example) the lands held by the opposition within Parliament. I read Elaida as more of a Mary, Queen of Scots, than any PotUS and Eggy as more following the lines of Elizabeth than any PotUS.

[Jon Paul]

Ishadar's use of monarchy and parliament is spot on for me. There are some superficial similarities between the White Tower and the Catholic Church but that's all. The relationship between the College of Cardinals and the Bishop of Rome is not like that between the Amyrlin and Sitters.

[Aiyen kin Leary]

As best I can tell, there are no democracies in Wot, at least among the wetlanders. There does, if memory serves, seem to be modified versions of self governance among the Aiel but for the most part, the governments and organizations are theocracies or monarchies in very feudal like system where inherited "houses" often directly support a royal family.

 

The Aies Sedai seem to give almost absolute authority to the Amyrlin Seat with a council of sisters acting as a kind of advisory board and as a self appointed committee when it comes time to appoint a successor to the Amyrlin Seat. I would suggest any comparisons to the modified democratic republic model of the United States is trivial.

 

This sort of raises other intriguing questions in my own mind. For example, what is the religion of Randland? Prayers are mentioned, but to whom. The so-called Creator is also mentioned but most seem to believe He or She to have little involvement in the pattern - that events are simply wound up and set loose like a wind up toy, to go where they will. The Children of the Light are often described in religious terms as religious zealots yet they seem to have no comprehensive system of belief other than this vague concept of good (the light) versus evil (the dark). One might view the Aes Sedai themselves as a religious or quasi-religious organization, very much, as described, like the Vatican and yet they yield no real religious authority. Religion is a powerful motivator, often stronger and more enduring then monarchies. In a world full of history and mysticism, magic and myths, I find it unrealistic that there's no sense of organized religion of any kind. We all know that people in harsh environs will worship almost anything and yet we see none of that, no churches, no priests, no religious leaders (with the possible exception of this vague, somewhat stereotypical "Prophet" who seems to do little more than raise a ruckus here and there).

 

Sorry, sort of ran off with the topic...

 

RJ was actually asked this exact question, and he responded that the lack of religion was a deliberate attempt to be more realistic, not less. He regarded organized religion to be largely a system created to maintain and strengthen one's faith, and felt that in a world where religion had been proven true, the rituals of the church (or mosque or other analogous place of worship) would be redundant. Channeling draws power directly from the Source the Creator set up, essentially believing in Aes Sedai implies believing in the Creator. And if you don't belief in the Dark One by now, there's something seriously wrong... Now, one can disagree with him about the purpose of religion or the likely consequences of its "proof" (to be honest, I don't see why channeling really proves the existence of the Creator, but hey, I didn't write the story), but at least RJ considered the matter carefully, and didn't leave religion out to simplify or politically-correctify his books. Sorry I don't remember the exact link, but it should be on theoryland.

[HighWiredSith]

RJ was actually asked this exact question, and he responded that the lack of religion was a deliberate attempt to be more realistic, not less. He regarded organized religion to be largely a system created to maintain and strengthen one's faith, and felt that in a world where religion had been proven true, the rituals of the church (or mosque or other analogous place of worship) would be redundant. Channeling draws power directly from the Source the Creator set up, essentially believing in Aes Sedai implies believing in the Creator. And if you don't belief in the Dark One by now, there's something seriously wrong... Now, one can disagree with him about the purpose of religion or the likely consequences of its "proof" (to be honest, I don't see why channeling really proves the existence of the Creator, but hey, I didn't write the story), but at least RJ considered the matter carefully, and didn't leave religion out to simplify or politically-correctify his books. Sorry I don't remember the exact link, but it should be on theoryland.

 

I suppose that logic makes sense. Take Lord of the Rings for example - there are no solid religious institutions present, no declared or practiced religion because of the same logic - Middle Earth is an environment where the unseen elements that typically form the foundation of organized religion or not unseen at all - they are present in everyday life in a number of forms (Istari, Nazgul, Maia Sprits, Elves).

[True Source Creator]

I can definitely fathom how it would be more of a Parliament and King/Queen thing considering the books take place at a similar time as the eighteenth century. It even features the starts of an Industrial Revolution, in some respects, for there are numerous schools where inventors are inventing some new (and recognizable) things.