Healing Stilling

[HighWiredSith]

I am a really long prologue and two chapters into KoD and couldn't help but notice that Lillaine was assisting Egwene at the end of CoT in her scheme to turn the chain gate at Northarbor into cuindillar. It also seems that Suian's channeling ability has returned to full strength as well. Did I miss something? I thought it was clear that being healed from stilling only restores a fraction of one's previous ability to channel and yet both Suiane and Lillaine seem to have their full strength back.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

i think you'll find the answers to most of your questions as you read on. and re-read. you may have missed something from this book, and from another you've already read. a lot of stuff happens, and it's hard to keep track of, which is one reason i think people re-read so much.

[yoniy0]

No, it's not a matter of reading on. You shouldn't have gotten the impression that Leanne's and Siuan's abilities were fully restored. They weren't. BTW Damer Flinn did restore those Cairhienian sisters fully (so did Nynaeve Logain). It's a matter of gender - cross gender Healing works best in this case.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

i was trying to be nice about it. that never works right for me. i could have just said, "you missed something." i did say, "... re-read." (and since i didn't recall where we learn about the gender thing, i didn't want to spoil anything.)

 

you did it better.

 

sorry all around.

[yoniy0]

Nah, you have nothing to apologize for. I just didn't want him thinking it's this thing that's actually happening, of which he'll learn in the future.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

:)

[Xader]

Lillaine

 

I'm drawing a blank on this one. Who is she?

[fikkie77]

Leane

[Sid]

Lelaine is the blue sitter that is always trying to grab more control of the Salidar Sisters (along with Romanda), and is as strong as Moiraine and Siuan were. Possible you read Lelaine and thought Leanne?

[fikkie77]

topicstarter meant Leane. Leane and Siuan have been stilled, Lelaine not (yet).

[Sid]

topicstarter meant Leane. Leane and Siuan have been stilled, Lelaine not (yet).

Well yeah.

[blazetheearth]

Also, the making of heartstone is not dependent on strength in the power. Leane was chosen because she had shown the most aptitude in the making of heartstone than any of the other sisters, besides Eggy herself. There was a section in KoD, I think, where Eggy goes through the Heartstone Manufactory in the SAS camp and talks about the process. The weave uses very little of the OP, and practice makes the process faster. No matter how strong in the power Leane is, she is the most adept at the weave so far. But I can understand why her being chosen for that mission might lead you to believe that her strength had been fully restored.

[yoniy0]

in KoD, I think

CoT. It ended with Egwene getting caught at Northarbor, so she wasn't free to inspect anything in KoD

[HighWiredSith]

Yes, mean Leane, not Lillaine - Siuan's keeper when she was Amyriln, stilled with Siuan and healed by Nynaeve. I know at one point early in Kod one of the Aies Sedai stilled at Dumais Wells states to Eliada that she was stilled and then fully healed by someone from the black tower. It makes sense, I suppose, that males healing females restore full power and vice versa but that a female could only half heal another female. I sort of pondered the reasons as to why Jordan would allow Siuan and Leane to only be half healed and could they be fully healed by an Ashaman or by Rand? I suppose there needed to be a reason for Siuan not to challenge the rebel sisters to reinstate her as Amyrilin Seat or at the very least, leader of the rebel Aes Sedai.

[Erunion]

I think the half-healing is more than that - Jordan was a physics major who really thought these things out, and this, I think, has a lot to do with the "Science" of the One Power.

Stilling separates your soul (or possibly just your body? Hrmm...) from it's connection to the One Power, stilling creates a hole that needs to be bridged. Now, as you'll remember from Winter's Heart, Saidin and Saidar repel each other, whereas Saidar can slip through Saidar and Saidin can slip through Saidin. Now - if you build a bridge out of Saidar, then it would 'repel' Saidin, and none would 'slip through' said bridge. However, as Saidar does not repel Saidar, some Saidar would 'leak' out and never cross the bridge between the One Power and the formerly stilled woman's soul (or mind, dependent upon which of the two was affected by the stilling) would be able to access much less of the power than she once could, as much of the power she is pulling in is 'leaking' away. The same likely applies for bridges made of Saidin, they would repel Saidar, creating a firm buffer, while allowing Saidin to slip through.

[Sid]

Basically RJ needed them out of the way for a few reasons. One, so Egwene wouldn't have to deal with them as the former Amyrlin and Keeper at full power. She could use Siuan's knowledge without worrying about her trying to take over again, since she was much too weak to be considered for the position as Aes Sedai of the time see things. It helped her immeasurably dealing with her situation. Two, had Siuan been fully restored, she'd likely have taken leadership of the SAS and there's little chance they ever would have summoned Egwene to join them in the first place. Her summons needed to happen or else the WT would never have been unified under someone that wasn't in the BA's pocket in time for the last battle.

[sonuvnothing]

I don't think it's so much a matter of cross-gender healing as it is just a separate way of healing altogether. Nynaeve, and also Flinn, seem to be adept at this 'new method of healing', which has taken all the old white tower sisters by surprise. Healing using all four elements instead of the traditionally accepted ones (air and water?). I always find it funny, in WoT, that sometimes we'll go books and books with characters still believing things proven false by others, but for the lack of communication. It's often hard for me to remember what characters know about what at any given time. I had thought that Jordan throwing in 'traveling'(gateways/skimming), was kind of his way of making it so that the main characters could all share with each other instantly, but alas, we still have great mass misunderstandings across the board... which certainly makes for exciting reading.

But I digress... I have yet to see Flinn and Nynaeve cross paths and talk, maybe I missed it. I would think in her internal monologue she would be infuriated if she found out that she didn't heal Siuane and Leane 'all the way', so to speak. I also imagine she'll be even more pissed when she realizes it was a man (damer flinn... a wool-headed, light-blasted, stubborn man), that figured out how to do it!

 

-son ov nothing

[capuga]

I don't think it's so much a matter of cross-gender healing as it is just a separate way of healing altogether. Nynaeve, and also Flinn, seem to be adept at this 'new method of healing', which has taken all the old white tower sisters by surprise. Healing using all four elements instead of the traditionally accepted ones (air and water?). I always find it funny, in WoT, that sometimes we'll go books and books with characters still believing things proven false by others, but for the lack of communication. It's often hard for me to remember what characters know about what at any given time. I had thought that Jordan throwing in 'traveling'(gateways/skimming), was kind of his way of making it so that the main characters could all share with each other instantly, but alas, we still have great mass misunderstandings across the board... which certainly makes for exciting reading.

But I digress... I have yet to see Flinn and Nynaeve cross paths and talk, maybe I missed it. I would think in her internal monologue she would be infuriated if she found out that she didn't heal Siuane and Leane 'all the way', so to speak. I also imagine she'll be even more pissed when she realizes it was a man (damer flinn... a wool-headed, light-blasted, stubborn man), that figured out how to do it!

 

-son ov nothing

 

RJ confirmed that it took someone of the opposite sex to fully heal the severed person:

 

RJ's blog 4 October 2005 "ONE MORE TIME"

- For Alys Kinch, the Healing of stilling must be done by the other gender to be fully effective. A woman Healing a woman or a man Healing a man results in less than full restoration. It all ties into that theme I keep harping on. Men and women have to work together to be their most effective. And while the weave used by Flinn for Healing is not exactly that used by Nynaeve, either would use the same weave on a man or a woman.

 

And there's more to it than just the fact that Nynaeve and Flinn both use all 5 Powers when healing. Remember, the Aes Sedai in the AoL also used all 5 Powers but they believed stilling to be unhealable. We just had two different characters figure out how to do the impossible. It would certainly be interesting to see the two of them working together.

 

Welcome to the boards by the way.

[Arkane101]

lol the ignorance and mistakes some people make amuses me. the 4 elements and lelaine being healed stilling... the 5 (not 4) powers of course never in the entire series being referred to as elements...

 

Also you guys never mentioned the fact that Damer never would have been able to heal stilling im not sure when but i specifically remember at some stage Logain was talking to another AM and mentioning telling Damer about what he heard AS saying about how Nynaeve did it so even if it were vague descriptions it would have been what led him to working it out.

 

Also the reason Siuan didn't lose any ability with healing and likely other abilities is because she could never heal that well in the first place, so whenever she healed anyone it would have only used a fraction of her power, and she still has enough ability to use that fraction. The same goes with the making of cuendillar, and why on Earth are you calling it heartstone? lol, it's cuendillar.

[yoniy0]

Also you guys never mentioned the fact that Damer never would have been able to heal stilling im not sure when but i specifically remember at some stage Logain was talking to another AM and mentioning telling Damer about what he heard AS saying about how Nynaeve did it so even if it were vague descriptions it would have been what led him to working it out.

Nope. Logain didn't arrive at the Black Tower until after Flinn left with Rand, and by the time he himself left to find Rand Flinn has already Healed those AS.

[EDIT: Perhaps you're confusing Logain and Dashiva? It was Dashiva that set Flinn on the way to realizing his potential with Healing, but Dashiva himself had no idea that Severing (as it was referred to in the AoL) could be Healed.]

 

and why on Earth are you calling it heartstone? lol, it's cuendillar.

Because it's also referred to as Heartstone. Are you denying that?

[sonuvnothing]

@mark grayson: ah, Mr. Robert 'Read and Find Out' Jordan, actually confirmed something? Haha. Is there a place where there is transcipts of any fan-questions answered by him? Just finished a re-read and am jonesing for some nuggets. Maybe they have them here? I have to admit I haven't delved much into this site, just jumped straight to the boards. Thanks for the welcome!

 

 

@arkane: Hahaha, yeah since I first started reading the series I have always thought of the five powers in my head as the four elements. It's a hard habit to break!

[capuga]

@mark grayson: ah, Mr. Robert 'Read and Find Out' Jordan, actually confirmed something? Haha. Is there a place where there is transcipts of any fan-questions answered by him? Just finished a re-read and am jonesing for some nuggets. Maybe they have them here? I have to admit I haven't delved much into this site, just jumped straight to the boards. Thanks for the welcome!

 

 

@arkane: Hahaha, yeah since I first started reading the series I have always thought of the five powers in my head as the four elements. It's a hard habit to break!

 

Terez has put together a handy WoT reference library all in one place. Here is the link:

 

My link

 

You can see that the RJ/Brandon quotes and answers has its own section. You can ctrl+F to search for words/phrases in the document.