Demandred. Legend - wait for it - Dary. Legendary.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Alright, this is my Demandred is awesome thread.

 

Basically, point being, besides Moridin, Demandred will be the most effective and dangerous of all of the bad guys.

 

Now, number one, I completely disregard anyone who says no because he hasnt had much screen time in the books. Fair enough, you dont like him because of that, but I am going from quotes and what we know of him. SO I dont really care about personal dislike because he hasnt been in it. This is what he WILL do. Not what HASNT happened.

 

Lets start with what we know of Demandred.

 

He went over to the Shadow because he was second only to LTT in all things. LTT was the greatest man of the AoL, with Demandred only a step behind, it stands to reason that he was pretty famous and awesome as BBM. Graendal says if it wasnt for LTT, Demandred would have been the dragon, and the most accomplished man of the Age. Which is no small feat. Considering ToM Rand is intensely amazing, if Demandred was only a step behind that. Well, he has got to have some awesomeness going on there.

 

Secondly, look at Demandred's hate of LTT. It is unparalleled. By all means Demandred should have been the first of the Forsaken to throw himself at Rand in a fit of blind rage. But he has not. That shows great focus and restraint on his part. While he is focused solely on killing LTT/Rand, he plans coldly. Also, he is not stupid enough to underestimate Rand. At the cleansing, he admits to himself that Rand's plan was brilliant, albiet not as brilliant as his own. One of the only times that a Forsaken has admitted anothers skill. Which in itself shows alot of character. Demandred is no fool.

 

Anyway, moving away from the books. We all know what has been said of Demandred. Graendal as of tGS believes him to be the most Dangerous of the remaining forsaken. ( apart from Moridin of course) We all know whats in the books. So lets see what Brandon and RJ have to say about him.

 

First, just a confirmation from RJ of him being skilled.

 

TOR Questions of the Week, August 2004-January 2005

 

Week 12 Question: ...(see full question in the General category)...With the Forsaken, where treachery and backstabbing were an acceptable way of getting ahead, the turnover in the upper ranks was fairly high, though Ishamael, Demandred, Lanfear, Graendal, Semirhage, and later Sammael, were always at the top end of the pyramid. They were very skilled at personal survival, politically and physically.

 

So he has always been one of the High end Dreadlords in the War of Power. So he isnt one of the famous Forsaken just because he happened to be trapped with the other 12 (like Mesaana and Asmodean seem to be). He was always high up.

 

Now, the most important bit. Brandon's comments on Demandred for AMOL.

 

23 April 2010 - Kristi Deming reporting

 

 

When I met Brandon on the book signing tour, they gave us a sticky to write what we wanted him to write what we wanted. I am the proud owner of the only copy that says:

 

"To Kristi, I promise Demandred will be in A Memory of Light!"

 

I asked if I was right in thinking that RJ had saved the best for last, and Brandon simply said as far as the Shadow is concerned, the main player will be Demandred.

 

Now that quote you cannot deny that Demandred wont be a pushover. He is the "main player". Enough said right there really.

 

Matt Hatch on Twitter 8 November 2010

 

Matt

 

How often does Demandred contemplate killing Moridin?

 

Brandon

 

Less than the other Chosen. He is focused on Rand. He contemplates Moridin, but mostly he wants Rand.

 

This shows that he does not have (to the same degree) often fatal flaw that the other Forsaken have had. They often quibble among themselves which leads to their downfall, focused on getting one up on eachother, they dont invest much time in destroying the Light. Demandred is focused on one thing. Killing Rand. by this, I believe that he is more prepared than the others were, as he invests almost all of his time in defeating the Light. Which means, unlike the other Forsaken, he seems to be well prepared and ready to face Rand and his armies.

 

Austin Moore on Twitter - 3 January 2011

 

Has Demandred even been doing anything important besides building an army? (guessing it's in Murandy)

 

Brandon

 

He's been doing lots of important things.

 

Omar Subedar

 

Who is your favorite member of the Chosen?

 

Brandon

 

Moridin. Followed by Demandred. Followed by Lanfear.

 

These two quotes to wrap up.

 

the first. Brandon says he has been doing "lots" of important things. That suggests more than one power base. All important pieces to the Shadow. He aint been offscreen for no reason. He has been amassing a huge power, and doing alot to hinder the Light. There is definitely a reason demandred hasnt been onscreen. He is doing something big.

 

And the Second. Demandred is Brandon's second favorite chosen. Considering how little he has been around, he is going to do something bloody specatcular in AMOL to be second favorite below Moridin.

 

And thats it. Hate him or Love him, Demandred is going to be a force to be feared in AMOL.

[Blood and Ashes]

Every time Demandred is being hateful, he stops being hateful and starts being awesome instead.

 

/Stinson

[Barid Bel Medar]

Every time Demandred is being hateful, he stops being hateful and starts being awesome instead.

 

/Stinson

 

Hahaha. Demandred shall suit-up.

 

Thats who Demandred has been all this time. Barney Stinson.

 

A great cover . He is having sex with random women, creating some kind of crazy awesome dreadlords.

[Swithin]

I agree. Until the Choedan Kal blew up, I thought I had a clue to his end-game gambit - since two channelers can simultaneously draw through the access key, sharing it's power relative to their potential, and Demandred and Rand are *very* close in the power, an arsenal of angreal would tip Demi over the top. If anyone can accept being *almost* as good, then stack the odds in their favor and win, it would seem to be Demandred, and what better way to finally vanquish LTT and prove himself forever superior than in the most epic power battle ever? He'd have to get close enough to grab the access key, but I saw that as a positive aspect of his Dragon-ganking. He's a planner, he'd have a way to make it all work while minimizing the risks. Who knows, we might just see some kind of Choedan Kal 2.0... but I doubt it. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he had a male sa'angreal of his own, though.

 

As for RJ's and Brandon's comments about us not having seen his alter ego on-screen, have we established that he has just *one* alter ego? How much of a trip would it be if all the "Demandred is X" topics were simultaneously correct, and he's actually got placeholder proxies in each of the roles until those moments when he needs to step in in person for delicate work? What if Taim is not Demandred... some of the time? If we haven't seen his "primary" alter-ego on-screen yet, then RJ and Brandon's comments would still be technically true.

 

Ishy, I'm happy for you and I'ma let you finish, but Demandred is the most hyped FS of all time - OF ALL TIME!

[Barid Bel Medar]

I agree. Until the Choedan Kal blew up, I thought I had a clue to his end-game gambit - since two channelers can simultaneously draw through the access key, sharing it's power relative to their potential, and Demandred and Rand are *very* close in the power, an arsenal of angreal would tip Demi over the top. If anyone can accept being *almost* as good, then stack the odds in their favor and win, it would seem to be Demandred, and what better way to finally vanquish LTT and prove himself forever superior than in the most epic power battle ever? He'd have to get close enough to grab the access key, but I saw that as a positive aspect of his Dragon-ganking. He's a planner, he'd have a way to make it all work while minimizing the risks. Who knows, we might just see some kind of Choedan Kal 2.0... but I doubt it. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he had a male sa'angreal of his own, though.

 

As for RJ's and Brandon's comments about us not having seen his alter ego on-screen, have we established that he has just *one* alter ego? How much of a trip would it be if all the "Demandred is X" topics were simultaneously correct, and he's actually got placeholder proxies in each of the roles until those moments when he needs to step in in person for delicate work? What if Taim is not Demandred... some of the time?

 

Ishy, I'm happy for you and I'ma let you finish, but Demandred is the most hyped FS of all time - OF ALL TIME!

 

1. RJ has said that Demandred has NEVER posed as Taim. So yeah, he has never been Taim, although Taim could certainly be his proxy.

 

Anyway, I agree, Demandred is shaping up to be pretty intense. Ive no doubt that he will die. He will always be second to Rand/LTT. But I think he will rip a bloody big hole in Rand's plans and the Light in general before he goes.

[Wolf505]

I agree that Demandred will no doubt be epic in AMOL. I would ask though, how much more powerful is Rand then he was as Lews Therin? Is he the same? To me this doesn't necessarily follow since not only does Rand have the memories of Lews Therin he can access, but he can also remember ALL of his incarnations, and can draw on their knowledge when he needs to. I'm betting on a huge showdown between Rand and Demandred in any case.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I agree that Demandred will no doubt be epic in AMOL. I would ask though, how much more powerful is Rand then he was as Lews Therin? Is he the same? To me this doesn't necessarily follow since not only does Rand have the memories of Lews Therin he can access, but he can also remember ALL of his incarnations, and can draw on their knowledge when he needs to. I'm betting on a huge showdown between Rand and Demandred in any case.

 

I dont think Rand can remember all of his past lives. I think that was just a brief thing. but I do think Rand is certainly stronger than he was as LTT.

 

Demandred has no chance really, and Rand will most likely squash him if he comes face to face. But Im thinking that there wont be a rand/Demandred showdown. At least, not until near the end. Im thinking Demandred will be messing up the forces of Light before taking on Rand. It would be in theme if Demandred doesnt even get a crack at Rand. I am hoping that he will though. I think a Demandred/Rand showdownn would be very intertesting. Just to see how they both react.

[Pokeriser]

I think that Damandred is posing as the Dragon in an alternate world. He also probably has alternate-world-Callandor, or even alternate-world Choedan Kal, though I hope not. On that note, why didnt any of the Forsaken try finding the Choedan Kal in an alternate world? Admittedly, it could take a while to find, but the end result is massive power, so you know, I think it would be worthwhile...

[Entreri]

He should have an epic role. For being the 2nd most powerful Forsaken, he has proven to be disappointment thus far.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I think that Damandred is posing as the Dragon in an alternate world. He also probably has alternate-world-Callandor, or even alternate-world Choedan Kal, though I hope not. On that note, why didnt any of the Forsaken try finding the Choedan Kal in an alternate world? Admittedly, it could take a while to find, but the end result is massive power, so you know, I think it would be worthwhile...

 

I dont think it works like that. I dont think you can just bring things over from alternate realities.

 

Portal stones to other worlds are a different matter. But yeah, im pretty sure that you cant just bring a whole heap of things out from an alternate reality. Or nobody has the knowledge to do it in any case.

[Adamdidit]

I still think its likely that Demandred has multiple proxies (Taim included) and has been behind some event sin the series that we're not aware of (besides successfully building an army of dark channelers)

 

Some thought son the matter

 

-We really don't know who Hanlon's boss has been. It keeps shifting and he keeps appearing to have higher orders. If it's Demandred, then that's a fairly effective proxy.

 

-We don't know who the murderer is that rules in Seandar.

 

-I hold suspicion that Asunawa was actually a darkfriend, and working for him. It fits Demandred's style and it could have been what led to the downfall of what was one of the Light's strongest groups. He was part of Niall's death, and a questionable part of Valda's rise and the split of the Whitecloaks afterward

 

-We still don't know what's really going on with Murandy. I suspect that the sudden strength is not a coincidense

[moratcorlm]

Too little, too late.

 

We really don't know who Hanlon's boss has been. It keeps shifting and he keeps appearing to have higher orders.

Hanlon received orders from Moghedien, and Shiaine from Moridin. That isn't to say Demandred can't have been involved in the events in Caemlyn, but there's no real reason to suspect it.

[Pokeriser]

I think that Damandred is posing as the Dragon in an alternate world. He also probably has alternate-world-Callandor, or even alternate-world Choedan Kal, though I hope not. On that note, why didnt any of the Forsaken try finding the Choedan Kal in an alternate world? Admittedly, it could take a while to find, but the end result is massive power, so you know, I think it would be worthwhile...

 

I dont think it works like that. I dont think you can just bring things over from alternate realities.

 

Portal stones to other worlds are a different matter. But yeah, im pretty sure that you cant just bring a whole heap of things out from an alternate reality. Or nobody has the knowledge to do it in any case.

Then why didnt Rand and his companions turn up naked when they went through the Portal Stone? And they still had their weapons. Sounds fair enough to me. I think theres a theory about the red-veiled Aiel having come from a Portal Stone, and another that Damandred is building an army in a Portal Stone realm, so its only a short step to think that he could take Callandor from the real Dragon Reborn in one of these alternate realities and build his own Dragon Empire and army there. But then, its probably not going to happen, he'll probably actually be in Murandy (Murandy, wth could he do there?) and get killed in a similar anti-climactic fashion to Mesaana.

 

And if he is Murandy I will not be happy at all...

[moratcorlm]

It's an interesting question.

These strange new creatures [grolm, torm, lopar, corlm, raken, and to’raken] were not Shadowspawn at all, but the descendants of beasts brought back from parallel worlds, via Portal Stones, during the first thousand years after the Breaking, probably in an attempt to find aid against the real Shadowspawn. While the creatures’ effectiveness was not recorded, it was during this same period that all remaining Shadowspawn on the continent were eradicated. The creatures remained, their care and training surviving through all the political upheavals until Luthair’s arrival. The knowledge that allowed their procurement by way of the Portal Stones, however, was lost.

[fikkie77]

Which makes creating an army in a parallel world a possibility...

 

There's an army brought by Portalstone in the Blight?

[Barid Bel Medar]

It's an interesting question.

These strange new creatures [grolm, torm, lopar, corlm, raken, and to’raken] were not Shadowspawn at all, but the descendants of beasts brought back from parallel worlds, via Portal Stones, during the first thousand years after the Breaking, probably in an attempt to find aid against the real Shadowspawn. While the creatures’ effectiveness was not recorded, it was during this same period that all remaining Shadowspawn on the continent were eradicated. The creatures remained, their care and training surviving through all the political upheavals until Luthair’s arrival. The knowledge that allowed their procurement by way of the Portal Stones, however, was lost.

 

wait, what are we talking about?

 

Parallel worlds or mirror worlds?

 

Parallel worlds are different worlds altogether. Like Mars or venus.

 

Mirror worlds are the alternate reality, like the one Rand went to in tGH. They are the same world, with a different version of history.

 

The Seanchan got the raken etc from Parallel worlds. Not mirror worlds.

 

Maria clarifies:

 

[Maria: I had to look it up to make sure that I had which one was which correct. The ‘finn worlds are parallel worlds, the Ogier world is a parallel world. The place that Lanfear, Rand, Loial and Hurin went to was a Mirror World, as were all of the ones in the Portal Stone incident.]

 

(Brandon cont.) Yet, many of those seem almost shadowy and reflections of the real world, some of them seem as real—just strange when visiting them. What happens in these different worlds? That sort of thing, those were never questions that Robert Jordan answered . . .

 

That quote is at odds with what RJ has said though, which is strange.

 

 

Tamyrlin: This is in reference to a previous question I asked you about Parallel Worlds and Mirror Worlds, today I believe, and you mentioned they are different. And the question I had about Portal Stones was, do Portal Stones lead to Parallel Worlds, Mirror Worlds, or both?

Jordan: They lead to Mirror Worlds, the Portal Stones can take you to Mirror Worlds, not to Parallels, which are separate.

 

So i dont know whats going down there.

[moratcorlm]

Then the Guide was wrong. It's happened before.

 

Mars and Venus exist in this world, and probably in the mirror worlds too. They do not exist in the parallel worlds. "World" is an imprecise choice of words, but it means something more like "universe" than "planet".

 

Specialized ter'angreal like the redstone doorways or the Book of Translation allow access to parallel worlds; the Portal Stones allow access to the mirror worlds; ordinary Traveling allows access to other planets.

 

Who knows where the corlm and so forth are from, but the point stands that angreal probably exist in the mirror worlds, and there's absolutely no reason to believe they couldn't be transported. Though this is getting a bit confusing and it would be very difficult to pull off a story involving intersecting alternate realities well.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Then the Guide was wrong. It's happened before.

 

Mars and Venus exist in this world, and probably in the mirror worlds too. They do not exist in the parallel worlds. "World" is an imprecise choice of words, but it means something more like "universe" than "planet".

 

Specialized ter'angreal like the redstone doorways or the Book of Translation allow access to parallel worlds; the Portal Stones allow access to the mirror worlds; ordinary Traveling allows access to other planets.

 

Who knows where the corlm and so forth are from, but the point stands that angreal probably exist in the mirror worlds, and there's absolutely no reason to believe they couldn't be transported. Though this is getting a bit confusing and it would be very difficult to pull off a story involving intersecting alternate realities well.

 

Yeah. Mars etc.. wasnt a very good example.

 

you are correct with the ter'angreal etc...

 

And I agree, it is too complex a plot to introduce in the last book.

 

The only think I can think of that has to do with the Portal Stones is that trollocs are being kept in Mirror worlds and being transported by Portal Stones.

 

Meh, the subject is too vague, who knows?

[Pokeriser]

I'd prefer complex to Damandred being in Murandy ^_^. But your right, it is a bit too complex to introduce in one book.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I'd prefer complex to Damandred being in Murandy ^_^. But your right, it is a bit too complex to introduce in one book.

 

Demandred hasnt been up to just one thing. So even if he is ruling murandy, he has got a whole heap of other stuff going down.

[Agelmar]

Demandred's appearance will make Be'lal's appearance look climactic.

[OptimusPrime]

Demandred is no fool.

 

I disagree.

 

He turned to the Shadow because he hated being second to Lews Therin, who he thought was simply inferior. And now, he is second to another man he hates, a man he thinks of as a madman whose plans are sheer insanity, who treats him worse than Lews Therin probably did, who openly mocks him in front of the other Chosen.

 

DEMANDRED: I will kill al'Thor! ME!

MORIDIN: You, or the Great Lord. Anyway, Im getting ready to face him at the end.

 

Demandred thinks to himself that Moridin was the only person that has access to the True Power. And yet we soon learn that Graendal has access.

 

Demandred has absolutely zero benefit from being Chosen, especially now. Hes still second place IF THAT, no longer needs protection from the taint, and almost certainly had something to do with assisting Moridins return, what with the passages in LoC prologue and epilogue. The way I see it, Demandred PLACED himself in a situation where even second place to Moridin is a long shot, and his blindness in this would cause the Dark One to think of him as an absolute idiot.

 

DARK ONE, LoC prologue: Hey Demandred, wana be Nae'blis? Okay, well you know that guy that used to be Nae'blis? Help me bring him back, and then you can be Nae'blis....NAAAAAAAT.

DEMANDRED, LoC epilogue: Have I not done well, Great Lord?

DARK ONE: Oh you did good boyo. So good, that you didnt think to question the consequences. Epic shooting-ones-own-foot going on here pal. You arent even worth True Power access.

 

Why on earth is he even with the Shadow?

 

The only way I will see anything involving Demandred as being epic would be for him to actually grow a second brain cell-hell, lets push the boat out, a third one as well-and actuallyu think about whats going on, and decide its time to try and pull Moridin down. Gather a few Darkfriend Ashaman and a few Black Ajah-we know he could easily do this-and create his own private circle. Indeed, we may have hints that hes done this before (the Eighty and One that Rand mentions) but either way, the epic part of it would be when Moridin links with Cyndane and Moghedien and kicks Demandreds-considerably-bigger-circles' butt, and Demandred himself bites the dust off of Moridins shoes.

[Elan Tedronai]

epic? like what kind of epic? killing a few borderlanders? perhaps destroying a city? that kind of epic? short of destroying tar valon and the white tower or killing major light characters i can't see where the epicness is going to come from. He has been built up to much for anything but a let down in the end.

 

Unless ofcourse he rips open the dark one's prison completely in which case then he would be new hero

[threadnecromancer]

It's an interesting question.

These strange new creatures [grolm, torm, lopar, corlm, raken, and to’raken] were not Shadowspawn at all, but the descendants of beasts brought back from parallel worlds, via Portal Stones, during the first thousand years after the Breaking, probably in an attempt to find aid against the real Shadowspawn. While the creatures’ effectiveness was not recorded, it was during this same period that all remaining Shadowspawn on the continent were eradicated. The creatures remained, their care and training surviving through all the political upheavals until Luthair’s arrival. The knowledge that allowed their procurement by way of the Portal Stones, however, was lost.

 

wait, what are we talking about?

 

Parallel worlds or mirror worlds?

 

Parallel worlds are different worlds altogether. Like Mars or venus.

 

 

Perhaps he is on Mars or Venus, how large a circle is required to travel to another planet? It always struck me as a little odd that we never hear references to colonies on other worlds.

[Swithin]

The only way I will see anything involving Demandred as being epic would be for him to actually grow a second brain cell-hell, lets push the boat out, a third one as well-and actuallyu think about whats going on, and decide its time to try and pull Moridin down. Gather a few Darkfriend Ashaman and a few Black Ajah-we know he could easily do this-and create his own private circle. Indeed, we may have hints that hes done this before (the Eighty and One that Rand mentions) but either way, the epic part of it would be when Moridin links with Cyndane and Moghedien and kicks Demandreds-considerably-bigger-circles' butt, and Demandred himself bites the dust off of Moridins shoes.

 

Or, you know, Demandred could continue his self-control-exhibition, wait for Rand and Ishy to beat each other up a bit, aim at taking down Perrin and Mat in the meanwhile, and be the last man standing for the Dark. Just about every other Forsaken has already broken him-or-herself on the prophecy-insured wall that is Rand al'Thor, but Demandred has known better. He hasn't failed yet (although DFs under his orders have,) so it's possible he's been privy to the Dark Prophecies. He's been saving himself, and I don't think he's contractually obliged or at all interested in being Rand's warm-up fight before he goes head-on with Moridin.

 

The prophecies *will* come true. Demandred could be the only one of the FS to actually take advantage of this fore-knowledge. In a way, he already is.

 

Wouldn't it be grand, however, if instead of ending up second to LTT, he tries to come out on top and ends up third? There's Rand, blind, bleeding, spent on fighting Moridin (and any body-swap, if it's coming, isn't instant,) when Demi *finally* appears and says something like "oh, poor Lews Therin, I bet you thought I was going to face you head on -" only to be interrupted by Logain, his finger at Demi's temple, saying "dodge this."