Rand's Waaayy too Strong

[johthohar]

Mat understands his luck. That doesn't mean he controls it. And what is this about Little Wolf? Is that Perrin?

 

Mat can choose to loose or win, i think this shows a very good control. One may argue if his luck is because of his taveren nature (which I think it is) but I don't think there is any question if he can control it very well at this point.

 

NO! Mat's luck is based on his need. If he needs to lose he will lose. If he needs to win he will win. At least nine times out of ten. There is no control. This is not debatable. Mat has said several times that his luck only works if he doesn't think or when it is random (i.e. WHEN HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY CONTROL OVER IT!). He doesn't have any control over his luck whatsoever.

[NetSlider]

You know what's crazy, I just thought tGS CH22 - The Last that Could be Done. Than I went to check, and bam!!!! right on the money! Way too much WOT reading!!!

[FarShainMael]

Seizing Saidin is often described by many channelers and being filled with light/power/raging storm/etc. We don't know what the voice was. It could have been madness having started to take hold. Unlikely, but we still have no evidence that it was the Creator. This is a very weak argument for some Light Power/Divine Power/Other Power... The only evidence we have of Rand using anything other than the True Source is the strange light web around his mind. And this could simply be a the effect produced by a weave he invented to shield him self from the madness that Nynaeve is seeing. Show me one instance where Rand clearly channels something other than Saidin. There isn't one. Therefore, there is no evidence and the "Light Power" is pure conjecture like I said.

 

TGS22.

 

Aggravating....

 

When someone references a chapter number from a specific book and I'm supposed to automatically know what the hell they are talking about.

 

Try reading the said chapter.

 

@netslider: of course I am

[NetSlider]

Mat understands his luck. That doesn't mean he controls it. And what is this about Little Wolf? Is that Perrin?

 

Mat can choose to loose or win, i think this shows a very good control. One may argue if his luck is because of his taveren nature (which I think it is) but I don't think there is any question if he can control it very well at this point.

 

NO! Mat's luck is based on his need. If he needs to lose he will lose. If he needs to win he will win. At least nine times out of ten. There is no control. This is not debatable. Mat has said several times that his luck only works if he doesn't think or when it is random (i.e. WHEN HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY CONTROL OVER IT!). He doesn't have any control over his luck whatsoever.

 

In tGS Mat was loosing on purpose and when the wagers were what he wanted he won. His need is what decided it is, therefore, he can control it.

 

@FarShainMael: I know

[FarShainMael]

[NetSlider]

 

Just noticed your sig. I love that part! Mat is such a woolhead at times....love the guy, though!

[johthohar]

Try reading the said chapter.

 

Try not assuming I have the books with me at all times and places. I'm at work. I don't carry my library here with me. Explanation please?

[FarShainMael]

In that chapter, Rand channelled the True Power to fre himself from the male a'dam. He was unable to channel saidin, because Semirhage had denied it to him.

[johthohar]

In that chapter, Rand channelled the True Power to fre himself from the male a'dam. He was unable to channel saidin, because Semirhage had denied it to him.

 

Thank you. I just misspoke. What I meant was there was no evidence of Rand using anything other than Saidin AND the True Power. As in there is no evidence heretofore of a "Light Power". I simply forgot to type "and the True Power". You try posting while being distracted by a million different things at work. Haha!

[NetSlider]

In that chapter, Rand channelled the True Power to fre himself from the male a'dam. He was unable to channel saidin, because Semirhage had denied it to him.

 

Thank you. I just misspoke. What I meant was there was no evidence of Rand using anything other than Saidin AND the True Power. As in there is no evidence heretofore of a "Light Power". I simply forgot to type "and the True Power". You try posting while being distracted by a million different things at work. Haha!

 

Same here, but you better watch yourself with FarShainMael - she'll straighten you out quick

[Jblaylock]

Regarding this overly long debate about the VOICE in the Eye of the World, whether or not it was the Creator, etc etc....

 

 

What I have yet to see is anyone saying, "Hey, maybe the fact that this was the first book in the series has something to do with it. Maybe RJ was still developing ideas, where he wanted the story to go, how he wanted the system of "magic" to be, what sort of supernatural things can and can't happen, and how explainable/unexplainable the story should or shouldn't be. Maybe that voice was something he planned on developing, and then just totaly abandoned because, as he progressed in developing the story, he realized it didn't really jive well with the rest. Maybe he hoped we wouldn't notice, or that if we did, he could just come up with some excuse."

 

At the end of the day, it's just a book, and when he wrote the first one he wasn't planning on this story being the scale it turned into. Perhaps he didn't realize back then how "into it" his fans would be, and didn't plan out in the same level of detail, to ensure the absense of loose ends, that he did in the latter books.

 

I say just let it go. I say it was an idea that he changed his mind on later and chose not to develope, and because there was so little explaination of it, he could get away with just letting it go.

[Entreri]

Just to be clear, Alivia is NOT stronger than Lanfear, angreal aided or otherwise. She is stronger than Cyndane who is significantly weaker than Lanfear was - whether this drop is due to being migrated to a new body or being fed-off of by the *Finns we don't know.

(We know that Cyndane is weaker than Lfear because either Grandael or Semirhage I forget which is surprised that they are now stronger than Cyndane).

 

Which leads down the other rabbit hole - just because Rand is LTT reborn doesn't mean he is the *same* strength as LTT. For all we know he could be stronger.

 

And yet in Lanfear/Cyndane's own POV in WH she thinks to herself that Alivia was stronger than her before the Finns held her. She was only stronger because she had an angreal, but I doubt that Lanfear herself was mistaken when saying that Alivia was stronger.

 

And significantly weaker is speculative. We know that she was weaker but we also know from Graendal's POV that Cyndane is still stronger than Graendal, which was rare even in the AoL. So Cyndane is still very strong.

 

 

 

"The girl was stronger in the One Power than she [Graendal] herself! Even in her own Age, that had been uncommon among men, and very rare indeed among women."

 

I speculate "very rare indeed" to mean more like 1 in 10,000 or 1 in 100,000 than 1 in 1000 or 1 in 100. "Indeed" really emphasizes how rare it is to find someone who is stronger than Grandeal.

 

"At first he had been sure that Cyndane was Lanfear reincarnated, until Mesaana told him the girl was weaker than Lanfear". So certainly is merely weaker than Lanfear and not by much, likely close to Lanfear's strength.

 

 

"Matt: So, they don’t have power to affect the soul’s capability of increasing its total channelling?

Brandon: Certainly not permanently; as far I understand, that is outside the realm of their ability."

 

So the Finns should not be able to permanently increase/decrease someone's strength.

 

"She [Alivia] was stronger than Cyndane had been before the Aelfinn and Eelfinn had held her! That was impossible; no woman could be stronger. She must have an angreal, too."

 

"An angreal, TOO":

It has been speculated that Lanfear was enhancing her natural strength with a very weak angreal all the time. "Hiding he strength"... That Cyndane is now Lanfear's actual natural strength level. Alivia is likely as strong as Lanfear at her natural non-angreal enhanced level.

[capuga]

"She [Alivia] was stronger than Cyndane had been before the Aelfinn and Eelfinn had held her! That was impossible; no woman could be stronger. She must have an angreal, too."

 

"An angreal, TOO":

It has been speculated that Lanfear was enhancing her natural strength with a very weak angreal all the time. "Hiding he strength"... That Cyndane is now Lanfear's actual natural strength level. Alivia is likely as strong as Lanfear at her natural non-angreal enhanced level.

 

The only problem I have with the Lanfear using an angreal to enhance her natural strength is that women sense other women's potential unless they are actually channeling. So she would have to be constantly holding the source through the angreal when around other women that can channel or they would notice the difference between her potential and the amount of power she actually holds. Also, her "no woman could be stronger" comment wouldn't make much sense then. If she was not at some kind of knowable maximum female limit then it would be possible for another woman to be stronger than her if her strength was partly due to a low level angreal.

 

I guess this theory is not impossible because Lanfear could constantly hide her ability/strength (which she does through most of the series) so that no-one could sense her potential and would only know how much power she actually channels through the angreal. I just think its very unlikely.

[Lacanos]

Mat understands his luck. That doesn't mean he controls it. And what is this about Little Wolf? Is that Perrin?

 

Mat can choose to loose or win, i think this shows a very good control. One may argue if his luck is because of his taveren nature (which I think it is) but I don't think there is any question if he can control it very well at this point.

 

NO! Mat's luck is based on his need. If he needs to lose he will lose. If he needs to win he will win. At least nine times out of ten. There is no control. This is not debatable. Mat has said several times that his luck only works if he doesn't think or when it is random (i.e. WHEN HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY CONTROL OVER IT!). He doesn't have any control over his luck whatsoever.

 

In tGS Mat was loosing on purpose and when the wagers were what he wanted he won. His need is what decided it is, therefore, he can control it.

 

@FarShainMael: I know

Pretty sure you two are arguing the same thing with a slight different in semantics..

[moratcorlm]

"An angreal, TOO":

It has been speculated that Lanfear was enhancing her natural strength with a very weak angreal all the time. "Hiding he strength"... That Cyndane is now Lanfear's actual natural strength level. Alivia is likely as strong as Lanfear at her natural non-angreal enhanced level.

It makes perfect sense in its context:

Just as it reached the woman, almost close enough to singe her garments, the web of Fire unraveled. The woman did not do anything; the net simply came apart! Cyndane had never heard of a ter’angreal that would break a web, but it must be that.

 

Then the woman struck back at her, and she suffered her second shock. She was stronger than Cyndane had been before the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn held her! That was impossible; no woman could be stronger. She must have an angreal, too.

The "too" means "in addition to the ter'angreal", not "like I did."

[Moogle]

 

"Matt: So, they don’t have power to affect the soul’s capability of increasing its total channelling?

Brandon: Certainly not permanently; as far I understand, that is outside the realm of their ability."

 

So the Finns should not be able to permanently increase/decrease someone's strength.

 

 

Whoa, whoa, Brandon said they can't INCREASE it, not decrease it. They can decrease it. It's quite clear from the way Moiraine was drained that Lanfear was drained the same way, but killed before they could get too much.

 

Why are there so many crazy theories? Lanfear had a small angreal on her at all times? Really?

 

Occam's razor. Lanfear was at her full power until the Finns ate some. She has less now.

[Rcurran]

Permanently - that's to say forever. When the DO brings someone back it's transmigration, recantering or say reincarnating - literally. Being born, in this context, could be viewed as incarnation. This is witnessed by the inability of the DO to save those struck down by balefire.

 

Cyndane and Lanfear are suggested to have the one soul, which has not been extinguished and bares the scars of the ToG in transmigration, allegedly.

[Entreri]

 

"Matt: So, they don’t have power to affect the soul’s capability of increasing its total channelling?

Brandon: Certainly not permanently; as far I understand, that is outside the realm of their ability."

 

So the Finns should not be able to permanently increase/decrease someone's strength.

 

 

Whoa, whoa, Brandon said they can't INCREASE it, not decrease it. They can decrease it. It's quite clear from the way Moiraine was drained that Lanfear was drained the same way, but killed before they could get too much.

 

Why are there so many crazy theories? Lanfear had a small angreal on her at all times? Really?

 

Occam's razor. Lanfear was at her full power until the Finns ate some. She has less now.

 

I see the point about the ter'angreal somebody above made.

 

Obviously the Finns decreased Lanfears power initially. But from what Sanderson is implying they have no permanent effect, while he mentions specifically an increase...why would it not apply to a decrease? That is, when one is reborn this decrease will not remain. If they can permanently decrease someone's ability by draining them that means there is no fixed channeler strength level ...then I do not see why it cannot go the other way, via a wish for a permanent increase in OP strength.

 

Why would Lanfear have a small angreal handy? To ensure nobody really knows her true strength...that unknown variable is another advantage in battle. The theory is a bit out there, I know :)

[capuga]

 

"Matt: So, they don’t have power to affect the soul’s capability of increasing its total channelling?

Brandon: Certainly not permanently; as far I understand, that is outside the realm of their ability."

 

So the Finns should not be able to permanently increase/decrease someone's strength.

 

 

Whoa, whoa, Brandon said they can't INCREASE it, not decrease it. They can decrease it. It's quite clear from the way Moiraine was drained that Lanfear was drained the same way, but killed before they could get too much.

 

Why are there so many crazy theories? Lanfear had a small angreal on her at all times? Really?

 

Occam's razor. Lanfear was at her full power until the Finns ate some. She has less now.

 

I see the point about the ter'angreal somebody above made.

 

Obviously the Finns decreased Lanfears power initially. But from what Sanderson is implying they have no permanent effect, while he mentions specifically an increase...why would it not apply to a decrease? That is, when one is reborn this decrease will not remain. If they can permanently decrease someone's ability by draining them that means there is no fixed channeler strength level ...then I do not see why it cannot go the other way, via a wish for a permanent increase in OP strength.

 

Why would Lanfear have a small angreal handy? To ensure nobody really knows her true strength...that unknown variable is another advantage in battle. The theory is a bit out there, I know :)

 

But she hasn't been reborn yet. She was transmigrated by the DO straight into a new body. So it is possibly still in the temporary phase.

[gary0044187]

addressing the question of the number of trollocs at maradon- As Ituralde was being taken into the city he estimated the force at "several hundred thousand Shadowspawn." (ToM, pg 331) It really does bring into focus just what the forces of the light will be going up against and makes me wonder if the army at the FoM will really be marching on SG or if it will be split into parts to counter multiple invasions by millions of trollocs across the blightborder and andor while rand takes a smaller strike force to TG with him, like in AoL.

[Orrionstar]

Seizing Saidin is often described by many channelers and being filled with light/power/raging storm/etc. We don't know what the voice was. It could have been madness having started to take hold. Unlikely, but we still have no evidence that it was the Creator. This is a very weak argument for some Light Power/Divine Power/Other Power... The only evidence we have of Rand using anything other than the True Source is the strange light web around his mind. And this could simply be a the effect produced by a weave he invented to shield him self from the madness that Nynaeve is seeing. Show me one instance where Rand clearly channels something other than Saidin. There isn't one. Therefore, there is no evidence and the "Light Power" is pure conjecture like I said.

 

TGS22.

 

Aggravating....

 

When someone references a chapter number from a specific book and I'm supposed to automatically know what the hell they are talking about.

 

You should, it's a pretty important chapter. Semirhage has him in the Domination Band and, therefore, he cannot channel Saidin. So, he channels the True Power instead. That is "one instance is Rand clearly channels something other than Saidin" because there is no way for him to be channeling Saidin at that time.

[Lacanos]

Seizing Saidin is often described by many channelers and being filled with light/power/raging storm/etc. We don't know what the voice was. It could have been madness having started to take hold. Unlikely, but we still have no evidence that it was the Creator. This is a very weak argument for some Light Power/Divine Power/Other Power... The only evidence we have of Rand using anything other than the True Source is the strange light web around his mind. And this could simply be a the effect produced by a weave he invented to shield him self from the madness that Nynaeve is seeing. Show me one instance where Rand clearly channels something other than Saidin. There isn't one. Therefore, there is no evidence and the "Light Power" is pure conjecture like I said.

 

TGS22.

 

Aggravating....

 

When someone references a chapter number from a specific book and I'm supposed to automatically know what the hell they are talking about.

 

You should, it's a pretty important chapter. Semirhage has him in the Domination Band and, therefore, he cannot channel Saidin. So, he channels the True Power instead. That is "one instance is Rand clearly channels something other than Saidin" because there is no way for him to be channeling Saidin at that time.

He's not asking for evidence of the True Power, he's asking for evidence of a new power being channeled. Because, and I agree with him, it's among the most insane nonsensical unevidenced theories I've seen upon here.

[NetSlider]

Seizing Saidin is often described by many channelers and being filled with light/power/raging storm/etc. We don't know what the voice was. It could have been madness having started to take hold. Unlikely, but we still have no evidence that it was the Creator. This is a very weak argument for some Light Power/Divine Power/Other Power... The only evidence we have of Rand using anything other than the True Source is the strange light web around his mind. And this could simply be a the effect produced by a weave he invented to shield him self from the madness that Nynaeve is seeing. Show me one instance where Rand clearly channels something other than Saidin. There isn't one. Therefore, there is no evidence and the "Light Power" is pure conjecture like I said.

 

TGS22.

 

Aggravating....

 

When someone references a chapter number from a specific book and I'm supposed to automatically know what the hell they are talking about.

 

You should, it's a pretty important chapter. Semirhage has him in the Domination Band and, therefore, he cannot channel Saidin. So, he channels the True Power instead. That is "one instance is Rand clearly channels something other than Saidin" because there is no way for him to be channeling Saidin at that time.

He's not asking for evidence of the True Power, he's asking for evidence of a new power being channeled. Because, and I agree with him, it's among the most insane nonsensical unevidenced theories I've seen upon here.

 

Well, I would say that Bela is the creator also it up there ...but you're right, this "new" power theory that's been floating around is out there (and if you check my previous theories i'm the first one to come up with ridiculous ideas myself)

[FarShainMael]

In that chapter, Rand channelled the True Power to fre himself from the male a'dam. He was unable to channel saidin, because Semirhage had denied it to him.

 

Thank you. I just misspoke. What I meant was there was no evidence of Rand using anything other than Saidin AND the True Power. As in there is no evidence heretofore of a "Light Power". I simply forgot to type "and the True Power". You try posting while being distracted by a million different things at work. Haha!

 

Same here, but you better watch yourself with FarShainMael - she'll straighten you out quick

 

 

Work is a pain, isn't it..

[nolirion]

Just a thought completely out of the blue and of your discussion about the channeling ability of Rand .

Will it be to childish to consider Rand using the One power to enhance is ability in the sword just like , all thing consider , Yoda ?

 

 

I mean that just a thought