So are the Ways clean now?

[MattTaz]

In Book 4 Perrin & Co would travel through the Ways in small numbers Machin Shin would soon catch up to them. I know Perrin is tave'ren (sp?)

and may attract Machin Shin, but from KoD with Rand in Tear, and now Caemlyn we have seen massive armies of Trollocs come through unharmed.

This got me thinking about Sammael in ACOS who left the Waygate open at Shadar Logoth.

Is it possible that it was still open in WH when Rand cleansed the taint. Not only did he cleansed the Source but the Ways as well?

The taint in the Ways created Machin Shin if i remember correctly??? Or is Machin Shin balanced by something else

It would also help Loial's Ogier army to turn up anywhere at the LB.

[blazetheearth]

In Book 4 Perrin & Co would travel through the Ways in small numbers Machin Shin would soon catch up to them. I know Perrin is tave'ren (sp?)

and may attract Machin Shin, but from KoD with Rand in Tear, and now Caemlyn we have seen massive armies of Trollocs come through unharmed.

This got me thinking about Sammael in ACOS who left the Waygate open at Shadar Logoth.

Is it possible that it was still open in WH when Rand cleansed the taint. Not only did he cleansed the Source but the Ways as well?

The taint in the Ways created Machin Shin if i remember correctly??? Or is Machin Shin balanced by something else

It would also help Loial's Ogier army to turn up anywhere at the LB.

 

It's a possibility, I especially like the tie in of the open waygate in SL, because you are right we never see Rand close it after Sammael's death to Mashadar. Another thought along the same lines could be what if Mashadar entered the open waygate. We know that the SL evil reverberated with the taint and attracted it, so maybe Machin Shin encountered some of Mashadar that oozed through the waygate and the 2 phantasmal entities are battling each other in the depths of the Ways leaving the bridges and islands clear for anyone to traverse with out fear of the Black Wind.

 

Normally I would say no, just because removing the Taint from saidin did not remove the Taint from male channellers. That would mean once Tainted a specific Taint-removal would have to be performed like Nyn did with Naeff. I take this to indicate the Cleansing removed the actual Taint but none of the effect that the Taint started.

 

But that open waygate does pose some interesting possibilities.

[Terrel88]

Hmmm, an interesting theory. It's generally accepted that the taint is what "created" Machin Shin, and ruined the Ways. but let's not forget there was 2 THOUSAND years in between saidin being tainted (the breaking of the world) and the Ways being corrupted. Admittedly I am basing this on what Loial said, but he is as reliable as you can be in WoT :D Perrin being ta'veren shouldn't attract Machin Shin to him any more than usual (although not many people had been travelling in the Ways!), pretty much the opposite, a ta'veren is at the centre of an age lace and so represents balance. If perrin got devoured bu Machin Shin, Rand would've got owned in LoC, and possibly aMoL (depending on whether Min's viewing is accurate/our interpretation of it). I have to agree with Ishidar that i like the idea of an open waygate, as its unlikely a trolloc shut the waygate, however since there is only 1 book left it seems unlikely BS will have time to debunk/confirm this theory. Machin Shin is probably gone as yes, the goodies could do with an Ogier army turning up anywhere :P

[BaLeFiRe WRaTH]

Nice catch. That had been bothering me for the last couple books because it seems like there certainly is a lot of Shadow activity in the Ways recently. I like to think that the open waygate means that there is a chance that the cleansing had some affect on MS.

[moratcorlm]

After a time, Egwene said, “Liandrin Sedai, what if we encounter the Black Wind?” Min mouthed the word questioningly, but Elayne gave a squeak. “Moiraine Sedai said it could not be killed, or even hurt very much, and I can feel the taint on this place waiting to twist anything we do with the Power.”

 

“You will not so much as think of the Source unless I tell you to,” Liandrin said sharply. “Why, if one such as you tried to channel here, in the Ways, you might well go as mad as a man. You have not the training to deal with the taint of those men who made this. If the Black Wind appears, I will deal with it.” She pursed her lips, studying a lump of white cheese. “Moiraine does not know so much as she thinks.”

[gary0044187]

After a time, Egwene said, “Liandrin Sedai, what if we encounter the Black Wind?” Min mouthed the word questioningly, but Elayne gave a squeak. “Moiraine Sedai said it could not be killed, or even hurt very much, and I can feel the taint on this place waiting to twist anything we do with the Power.”

 

“You will not so much as think of the Source unless I tell you to,” Liandrin said sharply. “Why, if one such as you tried to channel here, in the Ways, you might well go as mad as a man. You have not the training to deal with the taint of those men who made this. If the Black Wind appears, I will deal with it.” She pursed her lips, studying a lump of white cheese. “Moiraine does not know so much as she thinks.”

liandrin was BA though, what are the odds she lied about what she knew?

[moratcorlm]

Considering that she was planning on everyone she spoke to very shortly disappearing from the picture, she really had no reason to lie. And that she would willingly enter the Ways without concern hints at something; perhaps it's just suicidal arrogance, but perhaps not. It would make a certain amount of sense that Darkfriend channelers can be granted the ability to disperse Machin Shin, like the ability to filter off the taint on saidin.

 

And maybe it's not even channeling; perhaps what happened to Fain is related: “The Black Wind caught him—and he claimed to understand the voices. Some greeted him as like to them; others feared him. No sooner did the Wind envelop Fain than it fled.” Some parts of Machin Shin recognized Fain the Darkfriend, and others Mordeth. Maybe it's just a factor of there being a human soul to recognize; Shadowspawn, we know, have such a tiny soul that it's hardly worth calling such.

 

But if Darkfriends or Dreadlords can drive off Machin Shin, then they could shepherd the entire army of Trollocs through the Ways unmolested.

[Xcom78]

I could be wrong but was it not hinted at that the 9 women who tried and failed to destroy the way gate during the trollic wars is what created Machin Shin. The Aes Sedai tried twice. Once they destroyed it with 13 and the second time they tried with 9 the women got sucked inside. I believe it was a few decades after that event. The ways started to rot and I believe after hundreds of years Machin Shin started adding souls to its collective. Do not remember the dates and I am too lazy to go look it all up.

[Erunion]

Loial states that the ways fell into shadow during the end of the war of a hundred years, putting the corruption of the ways at 1000 years after the trolloc wars and the 9 Aes Sedai being sucked in, and a 1000 years before our story.

[brown_hound]

In Book 4 Perrin & Co would travel through the Ways in small numbers Machin Shin would soon catch up to them. I know Perrin is tave'ren (sp?)

and may attract Machin Shin, but from KoD with Rand in Tear, and now Caemlyn we have seen massive armies of Trollocs come through unharmed.

This got me thinking about Sammael in ACOS who left the Waygate open at Shadar Logoth.

Is it possible that it was still open in WH when Rand cleansed the taint. Not only did he cleansed the Source but the Ways as well?

The taint in the Ways created Machin Shin if i remember correctly??? Or is Machin Shin balanced by something else

It would also help Loial's Ogier army to turn up anywhere at the LB.

 

It's a possibility, I especially like the tie in of the open waygate in SL, because you are right we never see Rand close it after Sammael's death to Mashadar. Another thought along the same lines could be what if Mashadar entered the open waygate. We know that the SL evil reverberated with the taint and attracted it, so maybe Machin Shin encountered some of Mashadar that oozed through the waygate and the 2 phantasmal entities are battling each other in the depths of the Ways leaving the bridges and islands clear for anyone to traverse with out fear of the Black Wind.

 

Normally I would say no, just because removing the Taint from saidin did not remove the Taint from male channellers. That would mean once Tainted a specific Taint-removal would have to be performed like Nyn did with Naeff. I take this to indicate the Cleansing removed the actual Taint but none of the effect that the Taint started.

 

But that open waygate does pose some interesting possibilities.

 

 

The taint was never present as such in male channellers.

 

The taint was present in Saidin which is what made male channellers go insane.

 

We do not see Nynaeve heal the taint in her healing of Naeff.

 

We see her heal the ill-effects of the taint.

 

In saying that, is Machin Shin an effect of the taint which requires extraneous healing? or is Machin Shin part of the taint itself?

 

Machin Shin was always one of the fascinating facets of the series for me, and I think there's a chance it may rear its ugly head once more! Maybe as a result of the waygate being left open at SL by Sammael and Rand?

 

Maybe it's in hiding until TG?

[Mulk]

My take on the taint, based on Rand's descriptions of channeling it, was that the taint mostly gets absorbed into the (mind of the) person channeling saidin and isn't actually part of the weaves they make, except in some fragmentary way. It is described as oil on top of water, that the person channeling it has to dip through it to get to saidin and use it; it is also described as rolling off of the bonds of the Dark One for the male Forsaken so that they are not corrupted by it.

 

I hope Machin Shin and the darkening of the Ways is explained in a more full sense. Moiraine said something to the effect that the Ways are in a sense living and Machin Shin could be a kind of parasite in a living being. I doubt it will. But I have a sneaking suspicion that the Ways will be either destroyed or all access to them removed either in this book or in the near future. They won't be as useful in a world with traveling rediscovered and if they are not cleansed, then they are a liability and a danger that needs to be removed.

[Morh]

Somehow I have a feeling we will see Machin Shin in the last book. Dosen't make any sense to have something like that around since book one messing with the good guys, only to kill it offscreen. Sure would be nice to know some more about it and about the voices, but then again maybe all that will be in the encyclopaedia.

[Durinax]

Semirhage said that madness often materialized as hearing a voice, I think that machin shin is a physical manefestation of the DO's taint upon Saidin, since saidin was apparently exclusively used in the contruction of the ways.

[FarShainMael]

Didn't Elayne find a curious ter'angreal, blue and plant-like though made of stone, which Avi 'read' as being for growing 'not exactly' holes, and activated by a song? Was this the 'talisman of growing' used to make the Ways?

 

If so, will it be used? Perhaps to cleanse / repair them?