Here's an odd thought...

[blazetheearth]

Ok, so here goes... We have 50 or so AS bonded to Asha'man and some Asha'man bonded to AS.

 

Let's pick Narishima and Merise for examples in this hypothetical situation. Jahar is currently bonded to Merise as her Warder, so what would happen if he used the male bonding we see Logain use on her? Would it cause some sort of bond feedback causing severe headaches to both, or cancel the original bond, or cause the bonding to intensify so that they 'feel' each other much more intensely?

 

Or what about from the other side, what would happen if Toviene bonded Logain as her Warder now that she is already bonded to him?

 

Just something to think about.

[Nae Bliss]

...hmm that is quite a question let me consult the others. (turns to the side and talks to self)

It's unanimous we don't know. Kidding but really I think that it would intensify the bond to probably a mind altering level in that if they concentrated instead of feeling the direction and what not they might see where the other person are either through the others' eyes or like Rand-Mat-Perrin thingy... interesting...

[buckeyebull64]

No way to be sure. The only thing I can think to compare it to is Healing, where what was once healed cannot be healed again, until it breaks open or something.

[Darth Krewl]

Hmm...I think this could be compared to a dance, where the "bonder" leads and the bonded follows. Now, if the follower tried to take the lead just like that, w/o notice, then chances are their feet would become entangled and they could trip and fall.

 

In this case, I think that if both channelers tried to take charge of the bond, they would make a mess of things. IDK just what would happen, but like in the dance, I think their thoughts could become a tangled mess instead of their feet, till both would have trouble telling which thoughts and feelings are theirs and which belong to the other party.

 

Just my 2 cents. Good topic, btw, got me thinking hehheh

[randsc]

That's a great question. I'm thinking it may be irrelevent, though. I wouldn't be shocked (and would be pleased) if there is no OP-based compulsion, either capital "C" Compulsion or some of the "gentler" forms of coercion, allowed post-TG.

 

For example, I think most people are hoping the Seanchan have to give up the instituion of damane. I could see them pointing out the hypocrisy of Warders, or the Three Oaths, and demanding that those change as well.

 

I believe in free will. It would be nice to see WOT-world value it as well.

[honeybadger]

I bet you that it would be much like the Joker's quote in The Dark Knight when he said "This is what happens when an unstoppable force meets an unmovable object." thats the best way i can describe it. kinda like two rhinos charging head first ant each other or something like that. still a very interesting topic.

[Darth Krewl]

For example, I think most people are hoping the Seanchan have to give up the instituion of damane. I could see them pointing out the hypocrisy of Warders, or the Three Oaths, and demanding that those change as well.

 

I believe in free will. It would be nice to see WOT-world value it as well.

 

I just had a lengthy discussion related to this very topic in the Spoilers sub-forum (Discuss the Full Book) and some people would utterly reject the idea of Aes Sedai being guilty of the many violations that I've found in the books and cited as examples. You'd be surprised to see just how many people find the Seanchan totally repulsive and the White Tower almost free of blame for any potential violations to fundamental rights, which IMO, is astounding.

 

So, all in all, while I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment, randsc, I believe we're part of a minority and not the other way around.

[Jblaylock]

I think he'd be aware of her being aware of him being aware of her being aware of his awareness for her awareness of his awareness of her awareness of...

[blazetheearth]

I think he'd be aware of her being aware of him being aware of her being aware of his awareness for her awareness of his awareness of her awareness of...

 

That was sort of what I was picturing. Just sort of sitting facing each other, lost completely in who was feeling what and the feelings were about that rebounding off each other. Sort of like when you put 2 mirrors facing each other and the images reflect each other infinity.

[Demiandre]

Mirroring emotions, self-other-awareness, as bad effects. Bigger pain-transmission as well I suppose.

 

But I think that there could be good effects. Possibility for each of them to draw strength on the other, better location feeling (maybe distance as well?), or why not added strength?

 

Nice question btw. Nice mind twister

[moratcorlm]

I think he'd be aware of her being aware of him being aware of her being aware of his awareness for her awareness of his awareness of her awareness of...

Sounds right up Myrelle's alley.

[mb]

I recall a past thread about reciprocal bonding.

 

From glossary of Eye of World, a warder gets these gifts::

-quick healing

-ability to go long periods without food/water/rest

-ability to sense the taint of the Dark One at a distance

 

If both channelers bonded the other, both might have those abilities.

[dovien]

I don't think bonding is something which can be performed twice like that.

Remember how in the early books Moiraine explains that healing someone forms a kind of bond between the healer and the recipient of healing? Healing someone again doesn't intensify that bond, only makes a bond if there isn't one already.

I think the rule is the same for actual bonding; it can only be done once.

[blazetheearth]

I don't think bonding is something which can be performed twice like that.

Remember how in the early books Moiraine explains that healing someone forms a kind of bond between the healer and the recipient of healing? Healing someone again doesn't intensify that bond, only makes a bond if there isn't one already.

I think the rule is the same for actual bonding; it can only be done once.

 

 

I agree entirely with that in reference to the actual Warder bond that AS use, using the same example as above, Merise could not bond Narishima twice. No argument there, at all. But this is about reciprocal bonding. The woman uses saidar to bond the man to her, and then the man uses saidin to bond the woman to him. Or vice versa. Instead of thinking about healing someone twice, think about an AS and an AM healing each other at the same time.

[OptimusPrime]

"This is what happens when an unstoppable force meets an unmovable object." thats the best way i can describe it.

 

I imagined the causing of the link between Rand and Moridin to be something like that.

 

Could mild Compulsion be useful to help someone concentrate, to fulfill a given task without being distracted? If so I think a double bond could work for a very effective equal-partnership type scenario where each channeler takes charge in different situations

[dovien]

I agree entirely with that in reference to the actual Warder bond that AS use, using the same example as above, Merise could not bond Narishima twice. No argument there, at all. But this is about reciprocal bonding. The woman uses saidar to bond the man to her, and then the man uses saidin to bond the woman to him. Or vice versa. Instead of thinking about healing someone twice, think about an AS and an AM healing each other at the same time.

Your position isn't unreasonable but I still don't think it would be any different. Two people can be bonded once only, regardless of the power used.

[Demiandre]

It's not only about being bonded, but bond someone also. A bond B, and B bond A. They are Warders and bondholders at the same time.

 

So Narishma is bonded to Merise. But he can bond Merise as his warder, as she isn't bonded

 

Oh, by the way, Doviengleeman : someone can be bonded twice. Just not by the same person (rand is bonded to four women)

[dovien]

It's not only about being bonded, but bond someone also. A bond B, and B bond A. They are Warders and bondholders at the same time.

So Narishma is bonded to Merise. But he can bond Merise as his warder, as she isn't bonded

Oh, by the way, Doviengleeman : someone can be bonded twice. Just not by the same person (rand is bonded to four women)

What I'm saying is that two people can be joined by a bond only one way at any given time, regardless of the bond's 'direction'. If A bonds B then B cannot bond A but both of them can bond C. It's my position that the existence of a bond between two people excludes the possibility of other bonds between those two people.

[Demiandre]

Oh ok sorry I misunderstood you.

 

I don't think so for different reasons.

* This is a different person doing the Bonding, and logically shall work.

* saidin and saidar work together and against each other. The differences of the two halves, and the fact that saidin and saidar used together are working better indicates that it shall enhance the Bond to an upper level.

* Someone can be bonded twice or plus, and someone can bond more than one person. (Rand and his four ladies, Logain, Toveine and Gabrelle, Green Ajah)

* You can bond two person together (Aiel Wise Ones for adopted first sisters)

 

There isn't any limit that prevent the co-bonding IMO

[mb]

This issue seems entirely speculation right now.

 

Up through Gathering Storm, there has not been any attempt; and I am guessing there was not in Towers of Midnight either.

 

Only ways to be certain would be these::

-someone who has access to the notes telling

-the books showing an attempt

[Haran]

What if instead Narishma bonded an other Aes Sedai, who in turn bonded some other Ashaman and on and on. They could crate a huge bonding circle or a chain of bonded people.

 

A bonds B Bonds C bonds D bonds E bonds F bonds G bonds H bonds I bonds J bonds K bonds L bonds M bonds N bonds O bonds P bonds Q bonds R bonds S bonds T bonds U bonds V bonds W bonds X bonds Y bonds Z bonds A

[mb]

A chain I guess would be not much different then "regular" bonding regardless of the number of people in it; 3 being the minimum.

 

Edit:: Maybe also regardless of the order of the bondings.

[dovien]

* Someone can be bonded twice or plus, and someone can bond more than one person. (Rand and his four ladies, Logain, Toveine and Gabrelle, Green Ajah)

No matter how many times Rand is bonded, he remains at the same level of physical ability. To me this strongly suggests that bonding isn't cumulative in the way you are suggesting.

[blazetheearth]

This issue seems entirely speculation right now.

 

Up through Gathering Storm, there has not been any attempt; and I am guessing there was not in Towers of Midnight either.

 

Only ways to be certain would be these::

-someone who has access to the notes telling

-the books showing an attempt

 

Exactly!! Speculation is what this thread is all about, hence the thread title. Yes, I created it for selfish enjoyment, but I wanted to see what the speculations off others would be. I know what my opinions on the subject are, but I wanted to see what others would speculate if they had not thought of the question yet.

 

I have also thought about a bond chain - ie: Merise bonded Narishima then Narishima bonds Corele who bonded Flynn, Flynn then bonds Daigan, who bonded Eben, and so son and so forth. How much pain would the first bonded feel from the last boned? What kind of effect would these various bonds have?

 

By all means put forth any speculation you might have on the subject, not facts since there are few facts available from the books on the subject. Other questions about how the various bond interactions might occur would be fun to read as well.

[blazetheearth]

* Someone can be bonded twice or plus, and someone can bond more than one person. (Rand and his four ladies, Logain, Toveine and Gabrelle, Green Ajah)

No matter how many times Rand is bonded, he remains at the same level of physical ability. To me this strongly suggests that bonding isn't cumulative in the way you are suggesting.

 

It's not about making a single Warder better physically by adding multiple bonds, but if, using the example, Narishima bonded Merise would she gain the physical advantages the come with the bond? Since she is on the Holder end of the current one, she gets no more than any other AS from her Warder. If she became the Bonded as well, would she gain the same advantages the Narishima currently has, and if so that would mean that both members of the bond would get the advantages of both (Holder and Bonded). Which would also mean that Narishima would gain the advantages that a Holder typically receives. We know that each, the Holder ad the Bonded, get completely different advantages from each other, and we know that multiple Holders can be attached to one Bonded and multiple Bonded can be attached to one Holder, but we have not seen a Holder bond someone else, whether a Holder or just another channeler.