Amayar mass suicide

[racha_giurgiu]

no men named in the Tinkers? Did you miss that Aram was a Tinker and a rather annoying attachment to the whole Perrin storyline?

 

What?

[OzzieAlThor]

In the matrix, no one killed themselves (except Neo... kinda).

 

As for the act of the mass suicide, it's rediculous. They killed their kids. I feel no pity and didn't when I first read it either.

 

As for the importance in the story, I think that it's was possibly pre-ordained. The Ayamar wern't really "friendly" with the Sea Folk per-se. They were good buisness partners but neither race really wanted a part of the other in any other fashion. They though each other odd.

 

So it's entirely possible that this was the plan all along for those people. No one had to convince them of anything. It's almost religious cult-ish really. "We have seen this sign so this is what we must do".

 

Think that crazy group in California a few years back who thought if they casterated and killed themselves that would allow their Alien brethren to take them away from Earth. They saw signs and belived that's what they had to do.

 

Same prinicple, just remove all the religion from it.

 

Again, how does it affect the thread? I'd assume it affects everyone in different ways (as such news would), but there isn't a "This will teach *insert person/people here* that they need to *insert point/lesson here*" meaning to it I think.

[OzzieAlThor]

no men named in the Tinkers? Did you miss that Aram was a Tinker and a rather annoying attachment to the whole Perrin storyline?

 

What?

 

The post said:

 

There needs to be more work done on the Sea Folk. I don't even think three Sea Folk men have been named. They're just there. Like tinkers.

 

3.

 

To be technical, 2 Sea Folk men have been mentioned. Husband of origianl Sea Folk POV in Shadow Rising and husband of Sea Folk chick who slept with the Cahirien noble chick (Winters Heart I believe).

 

Tinkers you have Aram, the guy who liked Elyas from the first book and the Tinker leader heading twoard's Ebou Dar in KoD.

 

But if you mean storyline wise specifically instead of passing reference, only 1 Sea Folk guy (Cargomaster in The Shadow Rising) and 1 Tinker (Aram) have matter at all really.

[racha_giurgiu]

I read it as "they are just there." As though no Tinker had done anything and there had never been any interaction with Tinkers which there had been in earlier books. probably misunderstood the way you had meant it.

[Asajin]

In the matrix' date=' no one killed themselves (except Neo... kinda).

 

As for the act of the mass suicide, it's rediculous. They killed their kids. I feel no pity and didn't when I first read it either.

 

As for the importance in the story, I think that it's was possibly pre-ordained. The Ayamar wern't really "friendly" with the Sea Folk per-se. They were good buisness partners but neither race really wanted a part of the other in any other fashion. They though each other odd.

 

So it's entirely possible that this was the plan all along for those people. No one had to convince them of anything. It's almost religious cult-ish really. "We have seen this sign so this is what we must do".

 

Think that crazy group in California a few years back who thought if they casterated and killed themselves that would allow their Alien brethren to take them away from Earth. They saw signs and belived that's what they had to do.

 

Same prinicple, just remove all the religion from it.

 

Again, how does it affect the thread? I'd assume it affects everyone in different ways (as such news would), but there isn't a "This will teach [i']*insert person/people here*[/i] that they need to *insert point/lesson here*" meaning to it I think.

 

While, I can't agree with no feeling pitiful, I can't force my opinion onto you. But regarding the Sea Folk relationship with the Amayar, I think there was to an extent a friendship, because if not, the that Athan'miere woman(Zarine,I think) would not have been so outraged with Logain not letting her mourn.

[OzzieAlThor]

The only info we have on their relationship is from "The world of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time".

 

I'll look it up and give you the exact quotes from the book about their relationship.

[Luckers]

In KoD their relationship is described. The Amayar asked the Sea Folk for protection in the early days of the breaking, and were granted it. That obligation holds still. Amongst other things the gift of passage truly is a gift for the Amayar--no questions asked. From the progression of that conversation the relationship appears vaguely familial... parent to child, or perhaps big sister to little sister.

[dicetosser1]

Am I the only one who sees a correlation between the masss suicide of the Amayar and the ogier wanting to open the book?? arnt both ways of escaping this "illusion"

 

dicetosser1

[solarz]

The Amayar were corrupted Aiel. They followed the Water Way instead of the Way of the Leaf. At first glance, one would think that the two were the same, just a difference in name. However, no Jenn Aiel or Tua'thaan would have done what the Amayar did, especially to their children. Such an act would be abominable to the Way of the Leaf.

 

We don't really know how the Amayar came to be, but I see them as an anachronism that should have went extinct long ago (like the Jenn Aiel), but unnaturally preserved by the Sea Folk.

[TheSociopath]

do you have any proof of your idea? We don't see anything of their culture, or anything. I'm not saying it can't be, but I am saying I see no particular reason to believe it.

[solarz]

On 7/14/2018 at 10:12 PM, TheSociopath said:

do you have any proof of your idea? We don't see anything of their culture, or anything. I'm not saying it can't be, but I am saying I see no particular reason to believe it.

 

We know the Amayar followed a pacifist philosophy much like the Way of the Leaf. We know that the only other known group to practice pacifism are the Tua'athaan, and they are direct descendents of the Da'shain Aiel. Given the prominence of the Way in the books, it is highly unlikely that RJ decided to put in a different random group of pacifists and not even elaborate on them.

 

I say they are corrupted because their final act is abhorrent to the Way of the Leaf. Therefore, it is obvious that the Water Way is different from the Way of the Leaf. Given how cultural shift and evolution is a central theme in the WOT, it is pretty much certain that the Water Way came from the Way of the Leaf.

[TheSociopath]

mm. I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Talmanes]

I mean I think it's way too broad to say that just because they follow a pascifistic Way, they must be Aiel. The Tinkers still follow basically the Way of The Leaf the same way, though they don't know why at this point. I disagree with the only option for another group following a very different way on the other side of the world (even taking into account the Breaking) is that they are descended from the same group.

 

Unfortunately there is very little info on the Amayar so we'll never really get any sort of confirmation on their whole story.