Discuss Demandred

[Elend]

Except Rand would really rather not annihilate an entire nation for a few reasons. Every soldier he loses is one less to confront the Shadow and every soldier Murandy loses is, theoretically, one less to confront the Shadow as well. If he completely nukes it w/ One Power he's basically gone Darth Rand again and/or completely tired himself out, preventing him from doing much of anything.

 

The benefit of this comes from a variety of areas, none particularly immense, but they build up.

 

1. No need to commit forces to particular regions. The invasion need not be of Andor, it could be a Ghealdan or even Seanchan held lands, or all three if we've had some off-screen conscription going on.

 

2. These forces no longer fight for Rand at the Last Battle. Considering the sizes of armies that a nation in Randland can raise, it would be around 50-80k, in addition to whatever resources Murandy may have no longer being dedicated to the Light.

 

3.Depending upon the length of the Last Battle this could cause some severe logistical issues that forces the use of gateways to supply armies for the Light. This would serve to tire out the channelers, much like Grady and Neald.

 

4. It would serve to demoralize the forces of the Light when news comes of massive pillaging and general nastiness wherever Demandred strikes from Murandy. The psychological effect could be quite profound.

 

5. Channeling resources for the Shadow. Murandy contains a decent sized population and we almost never see it. Demandred could be covertly building yet another cadre of channelers for the Shadow, admittedly none very well trained necessarily.

 

He's not necessarily in Murandy but it just strikes me as much more likely than Shara or Seanchan, particularly combined with King Roedran's strange behavior and sudden political acumen.

[mbuehner]

My point is, why bother to oppose Murandians with any troops at this late date. They don't intend to dispatch troops to contain the Seanchan (indeed Rand already pulled Arad Doman's forces away from them and to the borderlands), why so much smaller a threat than the Murandians? The last battle is going to be over before a conventional army could even move more than a few miles regardless. Of all the dangers facing the world, Seanchan everywhere, millions of Trollocs overrunning the borderlands, the Dragon heading for Shayol Ghul... somehow the idea of Murandians sacking Baerlon just doesn't seem all that likely to disturb my sleep (much less Rand's plans). Sooner or later they will blunder into a Trolloc horde and end up fighting regardless. Build up Murandy as you like, if the Shadow's best remaining general is herding around 50,000 Murandians hoping to keep them in the dark as to his real allegiance, so much the better for the light.

 

I think the idea of Demandred marshaling the Trolloc hordes and/or overseeing Taim or another band of Dreadlords is a much more efficient use of a great captain of the shadow.

[Durinax]

My point is, why bother to oppose Murandians with any troops at this late date. They don't intend to dispatch troops to contain the Seanchan (indeed Rand already pulled Arad Doman's forces away from them and to the borderlands), why so much smaller a threat than the Murandians? The last battle is going to be over before a conventional army could even move more than a few miles regardless. Of all the dangers facing the world, Seanchan everywhere, millions of Trollocs overrunning the borderlands, the Dragon heading for Shayol Ghul... somehow the idea of Murandians sacking Baerlon just doesn't seem all that likely to disturb my sleep (much less Rand's plans). Sooner or later they will blunder into a Trolloc horde and end up fighting regardless. Build up Murandy as you like, if the Shadow's best remaining general is herding around 50,000 Murandians hoping to keep them in the dark as to his real allegiance, so much the better for the light.

 

I think the idea of Demandred marshaling the Trolloc hordes and/or overseeing Taim or another band of Dreadlords is a much more efficient use of a great captain of the shadow.

well we know that Moridin is marshalling the shadowspawn hordes by tightly regulating the amount of trollocs/fades a forsaken can send on missions and such.

 

Demandred prepping the armies of murandy could be major, especially if he does respond to the FoM summons and starts fighting between the various factions, I like the bit of foreshadowing that perrins army will be the 'spark' to light up the tinder without realizing an location like murandy wiht shifting allegiances and such (previously) could be the real fire starter

[Elend]

My point is, why bother to oppose Murandians with any troops at this late date. They don't intend to dispatch troops to contain the Seanchan (indeed Rand already pulled Arad Doman's forces away from them and to the borderlands), why so much smaller a threat than the Murandians? The last battle is going to be over before a conventional army could even move more than a few miles regardless. Of all the dangers facing the world, Seanchan everywhere, millions of Trollocs overrunning the borderlands, the Dragon heading for Shayol Ghul... somehow the idea of Murandians sacking Baerlon just doesn't seem all that likely to disturb my sleep (much less Rand's plans). Sooner or later they will blunder into a Trolloc horde and end up fighting regardless. Build up Murandy as you like, if the Shadow's best remaining general is herding around 50,000 Murandians hoping to keep them in the dark as to his real allegiance, so much the better for the light.

 

I think the idea of Demandred marshaling the Trolloc hordes and/or overseeing Taim or another band of Dreadlords is a much more efficient use of a great captain of the shadow.

 

1. We don't know how long the Last Battle will be. Logistics could very well be a serious issue.

 

2. Demandred's a pretty decent general but you can't exactly lead Trollocs, at least not as a conventional army.

 

3. One example of causing problems- invade Seanchan while flying the banner of the Dragon. Suddenly Tuon isn't in the mood for an alliance. You're thinking too conventionally.

 

4. There is no reason Demandred could not oversee Taim while doing this.

 

5. Its not hard to imagine that a human country ransacking a number of places could be a pretty serious blow to morale, partly because its a human army in the first place. It'd remind various groups of the divisions that separate them and, combined with darkfriends in the armies encouraging desertion, could be serious.

 

I could go on but I really don't feel like it. Demandred could be anywhere, I believe Murandy. That isn't to say he couldn't be doing several other things. The books have been explicit that Demandred likes to use proxies so he almost certainly has several projects going at a time; Murandy is perhaps just one.

[mbuehner]

My point is, why bother to oppose Murandians with any troops at this late date. They don't intend to dispatch troops to contain the Seanchan (indeed Rand already pulled Arad Doman's forces away from them and to the borderlands), why so much smaller a threat than the Murandians? The last battle is going to be over before a conventional army could even move more than a few miles regardless. Of all the dangers facing the world, Seanchan everywhere, millions of Trollocs overrunning the borderlands, the Dragon heading for Shayol Ghul... somehow the idea of Murandians sacking Baerlon just doesn't seem all that likely to disturb my sleep (much less Rand's plans). Sooner or later they will blunder into a Trolloc horde and end up fighting regardless. Build up Murandy as you like, if the Shadow's best remaining general is herding around 50,000 Murandians hoping to keep them in the dark as to his real allegiance, so much the better for the light.

 

I think the idea of Demandred marshaling the Trolloc hordes and/or overseeing Taim or another band of Dreadlords is a much more efficient use of a great captain of the shadow.

well we know that Moridin is marshalling the shadowspawn hordes by tightly regulating the amount of trollocs/fades a forsaken can send on missions and such.

 

Demandred prepping the armies of murandy could be major, especially if he does respond to the FoM summons and starts fighting between the various factions, I like the bit of foreshadowing that perrins army will be the 'spark' to light up the tinder without realizing an location like murandy wiht shifting allegiances and such (previously) could be the real fire starter

 

What spark, for what fire? And by what definition of major does anything a small army of Murandians does compare to the millions of Trolloc pouring out of the blight? Is this really the point when Murandy seizes their big chance to extend that border half a mile into Andor? And if so, who cares?

 

Sure- Demandred could open gateways and do all sorts of things... but at some point (and that point would I think come very quickly) the men in that army start wondering just who this guy is throwing the one power around that isnt the Dragon Reborn, and more importantly why he has them ransacking the nations that are off fighting the Last Battle. It won't take the smartest soldiers in the world to figure even if they 'win' their fate is probably in a Trolloc cook pot. And for all the advantages of position an army of Murandy might have, they'd also have to be aware that off gallivanting they would leave their homes and families open to reprisal from any one of the other armies lumbering around... not to mention the Trollocs.

[Durinax]

My point is, why bother to oppose Murandians with any troops at this late date. They don't intend to dispatch troops to contain the Seanchan (indeed Rand already pulled Arad Doman's forces away from them and to the borderlands), why so much smaller a threat than the Murandians? The last battle is going to be over before a conventional army could even move more than a few miles regardless. Of all the dangers facing the world, Seanchan everywhere, millions of Trollocs overrunning the borderlands, the Dragon heading for Shayol Ghul... somehow the idea of Murandians sacking Baerlon just doesn't seem all that likely to disturb my sleep (much less Rand's plans). Sooner or later they will blunder into a Trolloc horde and end up fighting regardless. Build up Murandy as you like, if the Shadow's best remaining general is herding around 50,000 Murandians hoping to keep them in the dark as to his real allegiance, so much the better for the light.

 

I think the idea of Demandred marshaling the Trolloc hordes and/or overseeing Taim or another band of Dreadlords is a much more efficient use of a great captain of the shadow.

well we know that Moridin is marshalling the shadowspawn hordes by tightly regulating the amount of trollocs/fades a forsaken can send on missions and such.

 

Demandred prepping the armies of murandy could be major, especially if he does respond to the FoM summons and starts fighting between the various factions, I like the bit of foreshadowing that perrins army will be the 'spark' to light up the tinder without realizing an location like murandy wiht shifting allegiances and such (previously) could be the real fire starter

What spark, for what fire? And by what definition of major does anything a small army of Murandians does compare to the millions of Trolloc pouring out of the blight? Is this really the point when Murandy seizes their big chance to extend that border half a mile into Andor? And if so, who cares?

 

Sure- Demandred could open gateways and do all sorts of things... but at some point (and that point would I think come very quickly) the men in that army start wondering just who this guy is throwing the one power around that isnt the Dragon Reborn, and more importantly why he has them ransacking the nations that are off fighting the Last Battle. It won't take the smartest soldiers in the world to figure even if they 'win' their fate is probably in a Trolloc cook pot. And for all the advantages of position an army of Murandy might have, they'd also have to be aware that off gallivanting they would leave their homes and families open to reprisal from any one of the other armies lumbering around... not to mention the Trollocs.

well to put it frankly if Demandred integrated his murandian armies into the rest and they lets say betrayed during the first charge of trollocs, that could destroy/demoralize and army and since humans cant run faster than horses the bulk of the armies would be slaughtered, and the news of such attacks would spread and cause dissent/suspicion among the othe armies causing discipline to go down which would cause more problems since in a disorganized situation I tihnk trollocs have the advantage

 

I think demandred has been causing people to turn to the DO by not shielding his dreams and pushing his will upon everyone else in their sleep

[WTF]

i think that Demandred is Taim and as for jordin saying that Demandred is not Taim that dons'nt mean that hes not impersonating him becouse then hes pertending to be him and not realy him (a bloody good AS answer)

[mbuehner]

My point is, why bother to oppose Murandians with any troops at this late date. They don't intend to dispatch troops to contain the Seanchan (indeed Rand already pulled Arad Doman's forces away from them and to the borderlands), why so much smaller a threat than the Murandians? The last battle is going to be over before a conventional army could even move more than a few miles regardless. Of all the dangers facing the world, Seanchan everywhere, millions of Trollocs overrunning the borderlands, the Dragon heading for Shayol Ghul... somehow the idea of Murandians sacking Baerlon just doesn't seem all that likely to disturb my sleep (much less Rand's plans). Sooner or later they will blunder into a Trolloc horde and end up fighting regardless. Build up Murandy as you like, if the Shadow's best remaining general is herding around 50,000 Murandians hoping to keep them in the dark as to his real allegiance, so much the better for the light.

 

I think the idea of Demandred marshaling the Trolloc hordes and/or overseeing Taim or another band of Dreadlords is a much more efficient use of a great captain of the shadow.

well we know that Moridin is marshalling the shadowspawn hordes by tightly regulating the amount of trollocs/fades a forsaken can send on missions and such.

 

Demandred prepping the armies of murandy could be major, especially if he does respond to the FoM summons and starts fighting between the various factions, I like the bit of foreshadowing that perrins army will be the 'spark' to light up the tinder without realizing an location like murandy wiht shifting allegiances and such (previously) could be the real fire starter

What spark, for what fire? And by what definition of major does anything a small army of Murandians does compare to the millions of Trolloc pouring out of the blight? Is this really the point when Murandy seizes their big chance to extend that border half a mile into Andor? And if so, who cares?

 

Sure- Demandred could open gateways and do all sorts of things... but at some point (and that point would I think come very quickly) the men in that army start wondering just who this guy is throwing the one power around that isnt the Dragon Reborn, and more importantly why he has them ransacking the nations that are off fighting the Last Battle. It won't take the smartest soldiers in the world to figure even if they 'win' their fate is probably in a Trolloc cook pot. And for all the advantages of position an army of Murandy might have, they'd also have to be aware that off gallivanting they would leave their homes and families open to reprisal from any one of the other armies lumbering around... not to mention the Trollocs.

well to put it frankly if Demandred integrated his murandian armies into the rest and they lets say betrayed during the first charge of trollocs, that could destroy/demoralize and army and since humans cant run faster than horses the bulk of the armies would be slaughtered, and the news of such attacks would spread and cause dissent/suspicion among the othe armies causing discipline to go down which would cause more problems since in a disorganized situation I tihnk trollocs have the advantage

 

I think demandred has been causing people to turn to the DO by not shielding his dreams and pushing his will upon everyone else in their sleep

 

Thousands of soldiers? Do we have any evidence that this is possible much less plausible?

[asudlow]

I would be extremely surprised and more than a little miffed if it turns out Demandred has been pottering about in Murandy. Remember Demandred's whole reason for being is his hatred and jealousy of LT/Rand for always being slightly better. If Rand has Tear, Illian, Arad Doman, Carhien and Andor (through Elayne), and Demandred has....Murandy? I think that would be more than poor old Mandy could take, what would be the point? It would make more sense if he was behind the trouble on the Seanchan mainland and had control of a vast army there if anything, other than marshaling the trollocs anyway.

[Durinax]

I would be extremely surprised and more than a little miffed if it turns out Demandred has been pottering about in Murandy. Remember Demandred's whole reason for being is his hatred and jealousy of LT/Rand for always being slightly better. If Rand has Tear, Illian, Arad Doman, Carhien and Andor (through Elayne), and Demandred has....Murandy? I think that would be more than poor old Mandy could take, what would be the point? It would make more sense if he was behind the trouble on the Seanchan mainland and had control of a vast army there if anything, other than marshaling the trollocs anyway.

that makes no sense though, why would Semi kill the imperial family if they where in demandreds pocket

[bysomy]

Demandred was always one step below LT. Rand has 5 nations, Demandred has 4. Raielmen, Mainland Seanchan, Parallel worlds, and Murandy. Possibly Shara as well.

[Arc]

I would be extremely surprised and more than a little miffed if it turns out Demandred has been pottering about in Murandy. Remember Demandred's whole reason for being is his hatred and jealousy of LT/Rand for always being slightly better. If Rand has Tear, Illian, Arad Doman, Carhien and Andor (through Elayne), and Demandred has....Murandy? I think that would be more than poor old Mandy could take, what would be the point? It would make more sense if he was behind the trouble on the Seanchan mainland and had control of a vast army there if anything, other than marshaling the trollocs anyway.

 

he might have only Murandy, .. for now. I still suspect Demandred/Roedran will have some evil tactical scheme to let his armies surge out of Murandy and into Illian, Tyr, Altara and Carhien. this while he pins enemy/light forces around Caemlyn. and in Borderlands. This will be a very well timed operation, becouse he'll probably do it while Seanchan are attacking WT, another hold-up for the forces of light. (Min saw a lot of death and pain with all the people of Tyr - don't know exactly when she saw it, but i remember she does. might be an indicator of the sacking of Tyr. (sorry, but don't have a book on me)

 

A sign that Roedran might be Deman:

- every other nation neglected Murandy so far, because they underestimate it's capacity. it'll add up to Deman's glory when he used thát nation as a base for conquest. he just wants to prove to be the better of LTT, ha always did.

- a glimps of he's tactical wits was shown when he used the Band to his own advantage to unify the Mur. nobility. (Anyway, I always thought the mention of the band being used by Roedran would have to have at least some consequence in the story/plot.)

 

This doesn't mean Deman is full-time Roedran, he could still have reigned anywhere else as well, Shara,... He doesn't really care about Murandy, just needs it as a base of operation, a point to launch an invasion, so he didn't need to make murandy as strong as Andor, Tyr, etc. So he became Roedran, or used compulsion on Roedran to make sure hes starting point for the invasion was secure. Then he had plenty of time to muster forces elsewhere, the blight, Shara,...

[asudlow]

that makes no sense though, why would Semi kill the imperial family if they where in demandreds pocket

 

Maybe they weren't, maybe it was just easier to assassinate them and assume control personally, that seems to be how the Seanchan do it anyway. We already know they were working together on something, and I still believe that Tuon and Mat are going to have to go to the ToM in Imfaral at some point in aMol. Though for what exactly, I'm not so sure.

[Durinax]

that makes no sense though, why would Semi kill the imperial family if they where in demandreds pocket

 

Maybe they weren't, maybe it was just easier to assassinate them and assume control personally, that seems to be how the Seanchan do it anyway. We already know they were working together on something, and I still believe that Tuon and Mat are going to have to go to the ToM in Imfaral at some point in aMol. Though for what exactly, I'm not so sure.

but didnt some forsaken mention that Demandred was to keep an eye on rand, how would he do so from seanchean mainland, he would have to spend considerable time there beginning to consolidate his armies and convincing/compulsing nobles in seanchean even before the imperial family died in order to make an effective and efficient takeover of the throne

[mbuehner]

I would be extremely surprised and more than a little miffed if it turns out Demandred has been pottering about in Murandy. Remember Demandred's whole reason for being is his hatred and jealousy of LT/Rand for always being slightly better. If Rand has Tear, Illian, Arad Doman, Carhien and Andor (through Elayne), and Demandred has....Murandy? I think that would be more than poor old Mandy could take, what would be the point? It would make more sense if he was behind the trouble on the Seanchan mainland and had control of a vast army there if anything, other than marshaling the trollocs anyway.

 

he might have only Murandy, .. for now. I still suspect Demandred/Roedran will have some evil tactical scheme to let his armies surge out of Murandy and into Illian, Tyr, Altara and Carhien. this while he pins enemy/light forces around Caemlyn. and in Borderlands. This will be a very well timed operation, becouse he'll probably do it while Seanchan are attacking WT, another hold-up for the forces of light. (Min saw a lot of death and pain with all the people of Tyr - don't know exactly when she saw it, but i remember she does. might be an indicator of the sacking of Tyr. (sorry, but don't have a book on me)

 

A sign that Roedran might be Deman:

- every other nation neglected Murandy so far, because they underestimate it's capacity. it'll add up to Deman's glory when he used thát nation as a base for conquest. he just wants to prove to be the better of LTT, ha always did.

- a glimps of he's tactical wits was shown when he used the Band to his own advantage to unify the Mur. nobility. (Anyway, I always thought the mention of the band being used by Roedran would have to have at least some consequence in the story/plot.)

 

This doesn't mean Deman is full-time Roedran, he could still have reigned anywhere else as well, Shara,... He doesn't really care about Murandy, just needs it as a base of operation, a point to launch an invasion, so he didn't need to make murandy as strong as Andor, Tyr, etc. So he became Roedran, or used compulsion on Roedran to make sure hes starting point for the invasion was secure. Then he had plenty of time to muster forces elsewhere, the blight, Shara,...

 

Is there any evidence, any evidence at all that Murandy had the potential to raise an army... including logistics mind you, large enough to threaten Andor (even empty of the Queens Guard) much less threaten several neighbors at once? Is there any evidence that Murandy has that level of population? Resources? Is there a shred of evidence that Demandred (or anyone) could compel or otherwise overwhelm an entire army and all its related resources to such a degree as to make it fight on the side of the shadow? Is there a shred of evidence that he can do all that while commanding the black tower, renegade Aiel, Shara, Portal Worlds, Seanchan, and god knows what else? Best I can tell the theory goes anything that we don't have conclusive information about is surely part of Demandred's master plan to turn Murandy into Shayol Ghul South.

 

This is the most circumstantial theory I've seen out there. Murandy hasn't been mentioned and therefor it most be of vital importance. Nobody knows where Demandred is and therefor he must be in the most vital location, and hence he must be in Murandy. You could use this logic to prove that Beidamon is raising an army of evil ogres in Hadden Mirk. Hey, we haven't heard from Machin Shin in a while, I guess that proves its in Lugard waiting for Demmys signal to invade Caemlyn.

[asudlow]

but didnt some forsaken mention that Demandred was to keep an eye on rand, how would he do so from seanchean mainland, he would have to spend considerable time there beginning to consolidate his armies and convincing/compulsing nobles in seanchean even before the imperial family died in order to make an effective and efficient takeover of the throne

 

True, but weren't they actually criticizing him for not watching Rand properly? Also, at one point he asks the DO 'haven't I done well?', indicating he must have been doing something other than watching Rand, and the only way he could watch him would be through well-placed informants, not personally. But yes, you do have a point.

[Durinax]

This is the most circumstantial theory I've seen out there. Murandy hasn't been mentioned and therefor it most be of vital importance. Nobody knows where Demandred is and therefor he must be in the most vital location, and hence he must be in Murandy. You could use this logic to prove that Beidamon is raising an army of evil ogres in Hadden Mirk. Hey, we haven't heard from Machin Shin in a while, I guess that proves its in Lugard waiting for Demmys signal to invade Caemlyn.

that Rhoedran was said to be unambitious early in the series, and that suddenly he has this awesome plan to bind all these nobles to him (which I think was a plot to get them to come to a meeting and compulse them into following) by having dragonspawn 'threaten' murandy (which serves another purpose b/c demy could then use that suspicion to get them and all murandians to attack 'dragonsworn' nations)

 

and the nobles are almost always warring and fighting with each other, which likely means they have large amounts of armsmen (likely quite a few veterens in fighting Human vs Human)

[Elend]

The White Tower had plots to unify Murandy. They'd not have that if they didn't think Murandy could act as a powerful and stabilizing influence.

[Elan Tedronai]

i think at this point who ever demandred turns out to be is going to be disappointing. One more book left in the series and still it's hide and seek with him.

[Muad Cheade]

Is there any evidence, any evidence at all that Murandy had the potential to raise an army... including logistics mind you, large enough to threaten Andor (even empty of the Queens Guard) much less threaten several neighbors at once? Is there any evidence that Murandy has that level of population? Resources? Is there a shred of evidence that Demandred (or anyone) could compel or otherwise overwhelm an entire army and all its related resources to such a degree as to make it fight on the side of the shadow? Is there a shred of evidence that he can do all that while commanding the black tower, renegade Aiel, Shara, Portal Worlds, Seanchan, and god knows what else? Best I can tell the theory goes anything that we don't have conclusive information about is surely part of Demandred's master plan to turn Murandy into Shayol Ghul South.

 

This is the most circumstantial theory I've seen out there. Murandy hasn't been mentioned and therefor it most be of vital importance. Nobody knows where Demandred is and therefor he must be in the most vital location, and hence he must be in Murandy. You could use this logic to prove that Beidamon is raising an army of evil ogres in Hadden Mirk. Hey, we haven't heard from Machin Shin in a while, I guess that proves its in Lugard waiting for Demmys signal to invade Caemlyn.

Talmanes mentioned to Mat that he moved the Band out of Murandy because he perceived the king was ready to turn on them. Seeing how the Band is comprised of about 30,000 soldiers, the Murandian army would most likely number between 35-40,000.

 

As King Roedran is the only monarch we have yet to interact with, it is only natural he would be though to be an alias of Demandred.

 

I wouldn't discount the theory as lightly as you did. In the case of two nations, Andor and Illian, we have seen Forsaken (Rahvin and Sammael respectively) fight against other, "good" nations. One could make the case that the Seanchan were/are doing the same.

 

Yes, having the entire Murandian people ally with the Shadow and fight alongside Shadowspawn would be a stretch. However, a Shadow-aligned king declaring war on individual nations would be significantly less for his people to stomach.

[outsider2222]

I think it's possible he is in control of the Seanchan mainland. In the 1st chapter it said "a murderer ruled openly in Seanar."

And it was said by Demandred that his rule was secure. Now around that time could be when he took full control over Saenar since Semi killed the Empress and all of her blood; so it could have worked out as far as timelines are cocerned. Also I'm pretty sure he would have had to murder some people here and there to take control. And it probably wasn't too hard to take control since Semi cleaned out of the Royal Blood people. And since he's a male channeler damane can't detect him and even if they did know he could channel it's not like they could collar him or anything.

It just doesn't seem too likely that he is somewhere else. Shara doesn't make sense since we havn't seen any of it all 13 books. The only other places he could be would be pulling strings at the BT or be in Murandy. But that just seems off since he also said he was preparing armies for war and I wouldn't say the BT was preparing for war from the ToM POV's... And Murandy just seems too insignificant...

 

And lets just say he was in control of the Seanchan across the ocean. And now he comes and attacks the Seanchan forces under Fortuana. Then after this Rand decides to help defeat Demandred. It would create a pretty good reason for Fortuana to finally get her head out of her ass and help fight the Shadow.

 

Just my two cents. :)

 

i agree that this is a good theory, seems to me that those pointy toothed red clothed aeil sound like the native seanchanian that accompanied the general that rescued Tuon from Matt (if my memory any good ..), so i hypothesise that they are an imported army of Demandreds from the Seanchanian continent

[Entreri]

I like the idea of Taim being a pawn of Demandred's. Given the value that ter'angreal, and only 2 in existence, it is unlikely that Ishamael would hand it over to just anyone.

 

I would say it likely that Ishamael is directing the Trolloc armies. Being the Nae'blis it is probably one of his responsibilities.

 

Demandred may be leading the forces that attacked Seanchan mainland and/or 'new' Aiel. If he is as good as they say, why not all three: Asha'man, army that attacked Seanchan and 'new Aiel'.

[mbuehner]

This is the most circumstantial theory I've seen out there. Murandy hasn't been mentioned and therefor it most be of vital importance. Nobody knows where Demandred is and therefor he must be in the most vital location, and hence he must be in Murandy. You could use this logic to prove that Beidamon is raising an army of evil ogres in Hadden Mirk. Hey, we haven't heard from Machin Shin in a while, I guess that proves its in Lugard waiting for Demmys signal to invade Caemlyn.

that Rhoedran was said to be unambitious early in the series, and that suddenly he has this awesome plan to bind all these nobles to him (which I think was a plot to get them to come to a meeting and compulse them into following) by having dragonspawn 'threaten' murandy (which serves another purpose b/c demy could then use that suspicion to get them and all murandians to attack 'dragonsworn' nations)

 

and the nobles are almost always warring and fighting with each other, which likely means they have large amounts of armsmen (likely quite a few veterens in fighting Human vs Human)

 

Murandy has officialy become MarySueandy. This theory has devolved into fan fiction.

[Elend]

As opposed to Demandred being in two places we explicitly have been told we're never going to see, being in the Land of the Madmen, or doing a job we can be pretty confident is being handled by another and would be a waste of his abilities as a general.

 

Yeah. Who'd wanna actually lead troops that can be lead in an effective manner that are in a geographically advantageous position as opposed to massive hordes that can't be trained or lead very well? Or the people that enslave female channelers, kill male channelers and are halfway around the world... yeah, the logistics of getting the hundreds of thousands of those troops in chaos across the Aryth Ocean without them realizing its the One Power surely won't be daunting. And Shara? Crossing the Aiel Waste isn't a problem for armies at all and, if necessary, he can cut through the Blight. Not a chance he'd run into Trollocs.

 

See, I can claim theories are completely absurd and make no sense with the best of them. The only argument against the Murandy one boils down to "why" and the supporters of said theory have offered plenty of explanations. You're the one who chooses to consider them absurd.

[Vexorian]

Here's how I'm approaching this... In aMoL we know what at some point Fortuona is going to have to ally Rand and everyone else in order to overcome the Shadow. We also know that as of TGS that there is no way that Fortuona is going to allow this with negotiations alone. So that would mean that at some point Fortuona is going to NEED Rand and et all to help her. One of the most apparant ways for this would be that her rule is challenged and her armies are being defeated or will be defeated. As we have encountered through out the books the only way to even stand a chance against the Seanchan is with channelers of your own. I reason that the most likely contender to try to defeat Fortuona to be Demandred. Her army is quite strong and would be vital to the Shadow to ensure she not join with the rest of Randland. Since Moridin is dealing the with assault out of the Blight, it would make sense for Demandred to be the one to do this.

 

Now, if Demandred were in control of Murandy ALONE. How the hell does he plan on defeating an army that has channelers with just the army of Murandy? It's very unlikely.... I am however not completely ruling out that he has not pulled strings in Murandy, it's a good spot to pull off an attack on the Fortuona or anyone else...

 

So with this said Demandred would have had to pull an even more competent army with channelers together. And with all of the facts we have from the Authors such as the fact we're not going to see Shara, And that at some point in TGS Demandred got his rule secure and was preparing for war. I think the only place he could get this army would be the Seanchan mainland. It is stated in the first chapter of ToM that someone did rule it and it would have been up for grabs since Semi took out all of the Royal Blood.

 

Now some of you think that this wouldn't work due to logistics and such. But we have no true indication of disproving that Demandred could have already been beginning to sail an army away from the Seanchan mainland to attack Fortuona when he said he was gathering for war. We don't know exactly how long it takes to sail the ocean but if he was about to leave at the previous point mentioned he might be set to arrive during aMoL.

 

And arguing the fact that the Seanchan wouldn't take him as leader for being able to channel isn't very valid. All of the damane are female hence they wouldn't sense him channeling if he did. And as soon as he became their leader, we've seen how loyal the Seanchan are, so even if they did find out then I don't think they would do anything. With that, it could also even justify them for fighting against Fortuona since they are so loyal to who they percieve to be their leader.

 

So in conclusion, if Demandred has this army and attacks Fortuona she's probably not going to be prepared... That whole alliance thing with Rand is looking pretty good about now huh? This could also throw a wrench in the plan to attack the White Tower... So Demandred attacks, Fortuona gets Rand's help, Rand (or someone) confronts Demandred, Demandred gets taken out, all the Seanchan assimilate under Fortuona, and through all of this Fortuona is bound to Rand as it was said in the prophecies...