Discuss Rand

[Fable]

Nynaeve has been shown to be the one so far with this ability.

 

Actually that's not quite right, lest we forget the Proglogue of TEotW when Ishamael heals

LTT's madness just enough so he can lament over killing Ilyena and be driven to suicide.

[Durinax]

Nynaeve has been shown to be the one so far with this ability.

 

Actually that's not quite right, lest we forget the Proglogue of TEotW when Ishamael heals

LTT's madness just enough so he can lament over killing Ilyena and be driven to suicide.

that was only temporary, nyns seems permanent

[Zagorac]

The only problem I have with Rand is..well he's just not Rand anymore. I get that this is probably necessary in order to defeat the DO, but he is now this weird fellow, more like Lews Therin who has Rand's memories than the other way around. No matter how glad I am to see him sane and good I just can't ecape the feeling that this is not who he is supposed to be...

[Val Mickey]

That's because we've had just one POV from him. I'm sure aMoL will set you at peace.

 

FoM is going to be one big APOLOGY fest.

 

Egwene, I apologize.

Elayne, I apologize.

Perrin, I apologize.

Dobraine, I apologize.

Gawyn, I apologize.

Galad, oh wait.

Okay, Morgase! I'll apologize for half an hour till I find someone else to apologize to.

 

MOIRANE!

[johthohar]

Nynaeve has been shown to be the one so far with this ability.

 

Actually that's not quite right, lest we forget the Proglogue of TEotW when Ishamael heals

LTT's madness just enough so he can lament over killing Ilyena and be driven to suicide.

that was only temporary, nyns seems permanent

 

Here's the relevant passage:

 

tEotW Prologue: Dragonmount

 

Tossing back his black cloak, Elan Morin flexed his hands. "A pity for you," he mused, "that one of your Sisters is not here. I was never very skilled at Healing, and I follow a different power now. But even one of them could only give you a few lucid minutes, if you did not destroy her first. What I can do will serve as well, for my purposes." His sudden smile was cruel. "But I fear Shai'tan's healing is different from the sort you know. Be healed, Lews Therin!" He extended his hands, and the light dimmed as if a shadow had been laid across the sun.

 

After this, LTT is, by all appearances, completely sane until he commits suicide. As for the "few lucid minutes" comment, I don't think this means that the way they healed madness in the AoL was temporary. I think Ishamael just meant that LTT's madness was so severe that no Aes Sedai could completely heal it unaided. They would be able to heal his madness but the taint was so thick in his mind that it would send him back to lala land almost immediately. The same would likely be true with Rand if it weren't for his "Light web" dealy. That's my take on it anyway.

[f3llyn]

That's because we've had just one POV from him. I'm sure aMoL will set you at peace.

 

FoM is going to be one big APOLOGY fest.

 

Egwene, I apologize.

Elayne, I apologize.

Perrin, I apologize.

Dobraine, I apologize.

Gawyn, I apologize.

Galad, oh wait.

Okay, Morgase! I'll apologize for half an hour till I find someone else to apologize to.

 

MOIRANE!

Why would he apologize to any of those people? More specifically why would he apologize to Egwene and Gawyn?

[johthohar]

That's because we've had just one POV from him. I'm sure aMoL will set you at peace.

 

FoM is going to be one big APOLOGY fest.

 

Egwene, I apologize.

Elayne, I apologize.

Perrin, I apologize.

Dobraine, I apologize.

Gawyn, I apologize.

Galad, oh wait.

Okay, Morgase! I'll apologize for half an hour till I find someone else to apologize to.

 

MOIRANE!

Why would he apologize to any of those people? More specifically why would he apologize to Egwene and Gawyn?

 

I thought the exact same thing when I read this. If anything, Gawyn should apologize to him. I'm pretty sure he's done with apologies and just ready to start kicking some ass.

[David Selig]

Why would he apologize to any of those people? More specifically why would he apologize to Egwene and Gawyn?

For getting his sister pregnant without marrying her. ;)

[johthohar]

Why would he apologize to any of those people? More specifically why would he apologize to Egwene and Gawyn?

For getting his sister pregnant without marrying her. ;)

 

Yea. After Elayne all but shoved him into bed, tied him down, and forcibly serviced him. Once again, I don't think Rand's the one who needs to apologize. Although, why he would want an apology for this is beyond me.

[anotherfingolfin]

That's because we've had just one POV from him. I'm sure aMoL will set you at peace.

 

FoM is going to be one big APOLOGY fest.

 

Egwene, I apologize.

Elayne, I apologize.

Perrin, I apologize.

Dobraine, I apologize.

Gawyn, I apologize.

Galad, oh wait.

Okay, Morgase! I'll apologize for half an hour till I find someone else to apologize to.

 

MOIRANE!

 

Egwene, I apologize, as it may shut you up a litttle.

Elayne, I apologize, for sleeping with Min more.

Perrin, I apologize, that fate married you to a shrew.

Dobraine, I apologize, that I gave your country to my girlfriend.

Gawyn, I apologize.. well no, I don't, you're an idiot.

[Crashy]

Hey all. :)

 

I seem to be a couple of books behind which I'll have to rectify after Christmas but have read the other books many times.

 

About Aviendhas pregnancy, I believe Rand knocked her up when they sheltered in the snow in Seanchan after she fled from him through a gateway in Rhuidean and that the wise ones had somehow delayed it with their knowledge and the power.

 

Other than that, the oddness could either be the fact that two are Rands and two are LTTs as pointed out earlier, or perhaps one will be Rand reborn again (if he dies).

 

 

The light web in his head sounds like an attachment to the Creator in a similar way that the black lines connect the forsaken (and Darkfriends?) to TDO.

 

From reading some of the comments here it sounds like Rand has a well, either in Ter'angreal form or he found a way to create one inside himself. With this well he would be able to channel anywhere, inside a Stedding, in the Guardian and probably even when shielded as these only block his access to the Source and not the well.

 

Have fun with your debating. :)

[johthohar]

From reading some of the comments here it sounds like Rand has a well, either in Ter'angreal form or he found a way to create one inside himself. With this well he would be able to channel anywhere, inside a Stedding, in the Guardian and probably even when shielded as these only block his access to the Source and not the well.

 

Have fun with your debating. :)

 

If I'm not mistaken. A stedding is different from the guardian at Far Madding. It doesn't cut you off from the source. In a stedding the OP is simply useless. So a well wouldn't help you there.

[Lacanos]

From reading some of the comments here it sounds like Rand has a well, either in Ter'angreal form or he found a way to create one inside himself. With this well he would be able to channel anywhere, inside a Stedding, in the Guardian and probably even when shielded as these only block his access to the Source and not the well.

 

Have fun with your debating. :)

 

If I'm not mistaken. A stedding is different from the guardian at Far Madding. It doesn't cut you off from the source. In a stedding the OP is simply useless. So a well wouldn't help you there.

I can't remember this ever being said. In fact, I'm pretty sure there's a quote from the AS/Sea Folk trip to Rhuidean that said the Guardian mimicked a stedding.

With a well, you could channel inside a stedding.

[johthohar]

I can't remember this ever being said. In fact, I'm pretty sure there's a quote from the AS/Sea Folk trip to Rhuidean that said the Guardian mimicked a stedding.

With a well, you could channel inside a stedding.

 

tEotW Ch. 29 Pg. 433 (Paperback Edition)

 

Elyas cackled suddenly. He bent over, shoulders shaking, to rest his hands on his knees. "Safety, that's what. We made it, you bloody fools. No raven will cross that line... not one that carries the Dark One's eyes, anyways. A Trolloc would have to be driven across, and there'd need to be something fierce pushing the Myrddraal to make him do the driving. No Aes Sedai either. The One Power won't work here; they can't touch the True Source. Can't even feel the Source, like it vanished. Makes them itch inside, that does. Gives them the shakes like a seven-day drunk. It's safety."

 

tEotW Ch. 43 Pg. 647 (Paperback Edition

 

It was to those Aes Sedai--those who had so far managed to avoid the madness--that the stedding first made the offer of sanctuary. Many accepted, for in the stedding they were protected from the taint of the Dark One that was killing their kind. But they were cut off from the True Source. It was not just that they could not wield the One Power, or touch the Source; they could no longer even sense that the Source existed.

 

From the Tar Valon Library

 

Within a stedding, a person is not able to feel the Source, much less channel, though the cause for this is unknown.

 

From A Wheel of Time Wiki on Wikia

 

An Ogier stedding is a beautiful place. An aura of peace seems to surround all, even non-channelers, and all feels well. The stedding also has another important characteristic, it blocks access to the True Source for Channelers. The inability to form Waygates inside a stedding seem to indicate that weaves of the One Power can not exist inside, even if channeled from outside. Far Madding's ter'angreal, the Guardian, simply prevents one from embracing/seizing the Source, but weaves from outside can penetrate the barrier. Wells would, presumably, be ineffective inside a stedding.

 

I know none of this is conclusive, but all indications from the text are that the One Power doesn't work at all inside a stedding. It was stated that the Guradian mimicked a stedding but it's never indicated to what extent they do this. The bottom line is, until Sanderson says a Well would work in a stedding, or we have an example of one being used therein, it's not canon and therefore we can't be sure if it's true or not. Personally, I'm of the opinion that a channeler wouldn't be able to use the One Power at all inside a stedding. Based on the fact that they can't even sense the source like if they had been burned out.

[Crashy]

Well, I guess that is conclusive enough unless the writers decide otherwise. That's the trouble with fantasy/fiction. ;)

 

Edit: Hmm, I just got this from the same wiki..

 

A Well is a ter'angreal that is able to store the One Power so that a channeler can use it as a separate source.

 

Conceivably, an Aes Sedai could use this while shielded since it works inside another ter'angreal that cuts off the True Source. It can also be used to channel inside a Stedding. The only two known Wells are owned by Nynaeve al'Meara and Cadsuane Melaidhrin. The Eye of the World was also a well, however its current status and location are unknown.

 

 

Not that it really matters for the purpose of this thread I guess. The main thing is, it would enable him to channel while shielded or inside the Guardians area.

[johthohar]

Well, I guess that is conclusive enough unless the writers decide otherwise. That's the trouble with fantasy/fiction. ;)

 

Edit: Hmm, I just got this from the same wiki..

 

A Well is a ter'angreal that is able to store the One Power so that a channeler can use it as a separate source.

 

Conceivably, an Aes Sedai could use this while shielded since it works inside another ter'angreal that cuts off the True Source. It can also be used to channel inside a Stedding. The only two known Wells are owned by Nynaeve al'Meara and Cadsuane Melaidhrin. The Eye of the World was also a well, however its current status and location are unknown.

 

 

Not that it really matters for the purpose of this thread I guess. The main thing is, it would enable him to channel while shielded or inside the Guardians area.

 

And this is the problem with user edited wikis lol. Still, its stated several times, not only that channelers can't touch the Source, but that they cannot channel inside a stedding. This is all based on character thought and as the characters are human (for the most part) they are fallible. Like I said its not conclusive and at this point is almost moot unless some part of the Last Battle takes place inside a stedding.

[Lacanos]

I can't remember this ever being said. In fact, I'm pretty sure there's a quote from the AS/Sea Folk trip to Rhuidean that said the Guardian mimicked a stedding.

With a well, you could channel inside a stedding.

 

tEotW Ch. 29 Pg. 433 (Paperback Edition)

 

Elyas cackled suddenly. He bent over, shoulders shaking, to rest his hands on his knees. "Safety, that's what. We made it, you bloody fools. No raven will cross that line... not one that carries the Dark One's eyes, anyways. A Trolloc would have to be driven across, and there'd need to be something fierce pushing the Myrddraal to make him do the driving. No Aes Sedai either. The One Power won't work here; they can't touch the True Source. Can't even feel the Source, like it vanished. Makes them itch inside, that does. Gives them the shakes like a seven-day drunk. It's safety."

 

tEotW Ch. 43 Pg. 647 (Paperback Edition

 

It was to those Aes Sedai--those who had so far managed to avoid the madness--that the stedding first made the offer of sanctuary. Many accepted, for in the stedding they were protected from the taint of the Dark One that was killing their kind. But they were cut off from the True Source. It was not just that they could not wield the One Power, or touch the Source; they could no longer even sense that the Source existed.

 

From the Tar Valon Library

 

Within a stedding, a person is not able to feel the Source, much less channel, though the cause for this is unknown.

 

From A Wheel of Time Wiki on Wikia

 

An Ogier stedding is a beautiful place. An aura of peace seems to surround all, even non-channelers, and all feels well. The stedding also has another important characteristic, it blocks access to the True Source for Channelers. The inability to form Waygates inside a stedding seem to indicate that weaves of the One Power can not exist inside, even if channeled from outside. Far Madding's ter'angreal, the Guardian, simply prevents one from embracing/seizing the Source, but weaves from outside can penetrate the barrier. Wells would, presumably, be ineffective inside a stedding.

 

I know none of this is conclusive, but all indications from the text are that the One Power doesn't work at all inside a stedding. It was stated that the Guradian mimicked a stedding but it's never indicated to what extent they do this. The bottom line is, until Sanderson says a Well would work in a stedding, or we have an example of one being used therein, it's not canon and therefore we can't be sure if it's true or not. Personally, I'm of the opinion that a channeler wouldn't be able to use the One Power at all inside a stedding. Based on the fact that they can't even sense the source like if they had been burned out.

 

Go read the Sea Folk Windfinder's PoV from her trip to Far Madding. She says she can no longer feel the source, I believe she describes the guardian as having "stolen the source". That "evidence" is inconclusive if not irrelevant. I'd take the word of the AS in this case - it mimics a stedding. Let's leave it at that - he could channel using a well.

[johthohar]

Go read the Sea Folk Windfinder's PoV from her trip to Far Madding. She says she can no longer feel the source, I believe she describes the guardian as having "stolen the source". That "evidence" is inconclusive if not irrelevant. I'd take the word of the AS in this case - it mimics a stedding. Let's leave it at that - he could channel using a well.

 

I'm aware that what I've said is inconclusive. In fact I specifically said that in the post you quoted. But irrelevant? How is it irrelevant when two characters, one an ogier with extensive knowledge of how a stedding works and one a former warder with extensive knowledge about channelers, specifically state that the One Power can't be used in a stedding. They don't say it can't be used... because they are cut off from the Source. The specifically say that the One Power doesn't work in a stedding. If you can show me a quote from Jordan or Sanderson saying a Well would work in a stedding or a specific example from a book where one is used then I will concede. Until then, I stand by what I said. Don't try to belittle my arguments simply because you disagree when the "evidence" you've presented isn't anymore convincing.

[Lacanos]

Go read the Sea Folk Windfinder's PoV from her trip to Far Madding. She says she can no longer feel the source, I believe she describes the guardian as having "stolen the source". That "evidence" is inconclusive if not irrelevant. I'd take the word of the AS in this case - it mimics a stedding. Let's leave it at that - he could channel using a well.

 

I'm aware that what I've said is inconclusive. In fact I specifically said that in the post you quoted. But irrelevant? How is it irrelevant when two characters, one an ogier with extensive knowledge of how a stedding works and one a former warder with extensive knowledge about channelers, specifically state that the One Power can't be used in a stedding. They don't say it can't be used... because they are cut off from the Source. The specifically say that the One Power doesn't work in a stedding. If you can show me a quote from Jordan or Sanderson saying a Well would work in a stedding or a specific example from a book where one is used then I will concede. Until then, I stand by what I said. Don't try to belittle my arguments simply because you disagree when the "evidence" you've presented isn't anymore convincing.

What you haven't done is display any evidence that a Stedding works any differently to the Guardian. It operates under exactly the same feeling, there is no shown difference. Until you can do so, I'm inclined to say a well would work.

Furthermore, it's unlikely that an Ogier would know about Wells, and Elyas certainly wouldn't.

[johthohar]

Go read the Sea Folk Windfinder's PoV from her trip to Far Madding. She says she can no longer feel the source, I believe she describes the guardian as having "stolen the source". That "evidence" is inconclusive if not irrelevant. I'd take the word of the AS in this case - it mimics a stedding. Let's leave it at that - he could channel using a well.

 

I'm aware that what I've said is inconclusive. In fact I specifically said that in the post you quoted. But irrelevant? How is it irrelevant when two characters, one an ogier with extensive knowledge of how a stedding works and one a former warder with extensive knowledge about channelers, specifically state that the One Power can't be used in a stedding. They don't say it can't be used... because they are cut off from the Source. The specifically say that the One Power doesn't work in a stedding. If you can show me a quote from Jordan or Sanderson saying a Well would work in a stedding or a specific example from a book where one is used then I will concede. Until then, I stand by what I said. Don't try to belittle my arguments simply because you disagree when the "evidence" you've presented isn't anymore convincing.

What you haven't done is display any evidence that a Stedding works any differently to the Guardian. It operates under exactly the same feeling, there is no shown difference. Until you can do so, I'm inclined to say a well would work.

Furthermore, it's unlikely that an Ogier would know about Wells, and Elyas certainly wouldn't.

 

Just because one character said that the Guardian mimics a stedding does not mean it works the same way. I can mimic a cow by making mooing noises but I can't fill a bucket with anything I'd want to put in my mouth. And the Guardian also has the same effect as being burnt out where a channeler can no longer feel the Source. Do you think a burned out man or woman could use a well? Taking those things into account, you have provided no evidence that the Guardian doesn't work differently than a stedding. The Guardian is a man made ter'angreal that blocks the Source. A stedding is a natural place in the world where the One Power doesn't work. Not to mention that people in a stedding feel safe and at peace. And plants seem to grow better in a stedding. And a stedding is inaccessible from Tel'aran'rhiod. They are two entirely different things. Just because the Guardian mimics one effect of a stedding does not mean it mimics them all. Based on all the differences between the two, I would say the burden of proof is on you. Not me.

[Lacanos]

Go read the Sea Folk Windfinder's PoV from her trip to Far Madding. She says she can no longer feel the source, I believe she describes the guardian as having "stolen the source". That "evidence" is inconclusive if not irrelevant. I'd take the word of the AS in this case - it mimics a stedding. Let's leave it at that - he could channel using a well.

 

I'm aware that what I've said is inconclusive. In fact I specifically said that in the post you quoted. But irrelevant? How is it irrelevant when two characters, one an ogier with extensive knowledge of how a stedding works and one a former warder with extensive knowledge about channelers, specifically state that the One Power can't be used in a stedding. They don't say it can't be used... because they are cut off from the Source. The specifically say that the One Power doesn't work in a stedding. If you can show me a quote from Jordan or Sanderson saying a Well would work in a stedding or a specific example from a book where one is used then I will concede. Until then, I stand by what I said. Don't try to belittle my arguments simply because you disagree when the "evidence" you've presented isn't anymore convincing.

What you haven't done is display any evidence that a Stedding works any differently to the Guardian. It operates under exactly the same feeling, there is no shown difference. Until you can do so, I'm inclined to say a well would work.

Furthermore, it's unlikely that an Ogier would know about Wells, and Elyas certainly wouldn't.

 

Just because one character said that the Guardian mimics a stedding does not mean it works the same way.

But that's one source as opposed to none?

I can mimic a cow by making mooing noises but I can't fill a bucket with anything I'd want to put in my mouth.

Well that's probably the worst comparison possible. Seriously, if you are going to argue at least build a proper argument.

And the Guardian also has the same effect as being burnt out where a channeler can no longer feel the Source. Do you think a burned out man or woman could use a well?

You can't feel the source when under the effects of the Guardian or of a Stedding. What's your point?

Taking those things into account, you have provided no evidence that the Guardian doesn't work differently than a stedding. The Guardian is a man made ter'angreal that blocks the Source. A stedding is a natural place in the world where the One Power doesn't work.

The Guardian is a ter'angreal designed to have the same effect as a stedding. Stop making crap up and build a proper argument.

Not to mention that people in a stedding feel safe and at peace. And plants seem to grow better in a stedding. And a stedding is inaccessible from Tel'aran'rhiod.

The Guardian mimics ONE effect of a Stedding. As I said. Repeatedly.

They are two entirely different things. Just because the Guardian mimics one effect of a stedding does not mean it mimics them all. Based on all the differences between the two, I would say the burden of proof is on you. Not me.

It doesn't really matter if it mimics the others.

 

Let's analyse the facts here.

1) The Guardian has, as far as we can tell, exactly the same effect as a Stedding in relation to the One Power. While under the effects of either, you cannot so much as sense the Source.

2) There is a quote stating that the Guardian works in the same way as a Stedding. The source may not be 100% guaranteed to be right, but there's some form of evidence there anyway.

 

What other facts do we know? Diddly-squat.

Ultimately, if you want to be stubborn you can be. However, there's no factual basis you've made clear for claiming that a well would not work in a stedding.

[Annia]

 

 

I'm aware that what I've said is inconclusive. In fact I specifically said that in the post you quoted. But irrelevant? How is it irrelevant when two characters, one an ogier with extensive knowledge of how a stedding works and one a former warder with extensive knowledge about channelers, specifically state that the One Power can't be used in a stedding. They don't say it can't be used... because they are cut off from the Source. The specifically say that the One Power doesn't work in a stedding. If you can show me a quote from Jordan or Sanderson saying a Well would work in a stedding or a specific example from a book where one is used then I will concede. Until then, I stand by what I said. Don't try to belittle my arguments simply because you disagree when the "evidence" you've presented isn't anymore convincing.

What you haven't done is display any evidence that a Stedding works any differently to the Guardian. It operates under exactly the same feeling, there is no shown difference. Until you can do so, I'm inclined to say a well would work.

Furthermore, it's unlikely that an Ogier would know about Wells, and Elyas certainly wouldn't.

 

Just because one character said that the Guardian mimics a stedding does not mean it works the same way.

But that's one source as opposed to none?

 

The Guardian is a ter'angreal designed to have the same effect as a stedding. Stop making crap up and build a proper argument.

Not to mention that people in a stedding feel safe and at peace. And plants seem to grow better in a stedding. And a stedding is inaccessible from Tel'aran'rhiod.

The Guardian mimics ONE effect of a Stedding. As I said. Repeatedly.

They are two entirely different things. Just because the Guardian mimics one effect of a stedding does not mean it mimics them all. Based on all the differences between the two, I would say the burden of proof is on you. Not me.

It doesn't really matter if it mimics the others.

 

Let's analyse the facts here.

1) The Guardian has, as far as we can tell, exactly the same effect as a Stedding in relation to the One Power. While under the effects of either, you cannot so much as sense the Source.

2) There is a quote stating that the Guardian works in the same way as a Stedding. The source may not be 100% guaranteed to be right, but there's some form of evidence there anyway.

 

What other facts do we know? Diddly-squat.

Ultimately, if you want to be stubborn you can be. However, there's no factual basis you've made clear for claiming that a well would not work in a stedding.

 

I'm sure you guys can agree to disagree so that we can move this discussion back to Rand.

[johthohar]

Just because one character said that the Guardian mimics a stedding does not mean it works the same way.

 

But that's one source as opposed to none?

 

None? I gave you two direct cited quotes from the text. The fact that you ignore the sources I've given you does not mean they don't exist.

 

I can mimic a cow by making mooing noises but I can't fill a bucket with anything I'd want to put in my mouth.

 

 

Well that's probably the worst comparison possible. Seriously, if you are going to argue at least build a proper argument.

 

Okay, here's a more appropriate analogy. I could mimic your voice. No matter how well I did I still wouldn't sound as much like you as you do. I wouldn't be able to mimic your voice so well that there was no difference.

 

And the Guardian also has the same effect as being burnt out where a channeler can no longer feel the Source. Do you think a burned out man or woman could use a well?

 

You can't feel the source when under the effects of the Guardian or of a Stedding. What's your point?

 

My point is that I doubt a burned out woman would be able to use a well. The Guardian is different in this regard.

 

Taking those things into account, you have provided no evidence that the Guardian doesn't work differently than a stedding. The Guardian is a man made ter'angreal that blocks the Source. A stedding is a natural place in the world where the One Power doesn't work.

 

The Guardian is a ter'angreal designed to have the same effect as a stedding. Stop making crap up and build a proper argument.

 

What "crap" am I making up? I haven't said one thing that isn't true. Maybe you should stop attacking me and build a proper argument yourself. And I doubt the creators of the Guardian intended it to have the same effect as a stedding. It was probably "Hey lets build a ter'angreal that cuts channelers off from the True Source." not "Hey lets build a ter'angreal that turns an area into a stedding."

 

Not to mention that people in a stedding feel safe and at peace. And plants seem to grow better in a stedding. And a stedding is inaccessible from Tel'aran'rhiod.

 

The Guardian mimics ONE effect of a Stedding. As I said. Repeatedly.

 

One effect. That is to block the True Source. I am contending that a stedding blocks channeling the One Power at all as well as blocking the Source. That is a different effect.

 

They are two entirely different things. Just because the Guardian mimics one effect of a stedding does not mean it mimics them all. Based on all the differences between the two, I would say the burden of proof is on you. Not me.

 

It doesn't really matter if it mimics the others.

 

Yes, it does. Cutting a channeler off from the Source and blocking the One Power entirely are two different effects. The fact that the Guardian doesn't mimic ALL the effects of a stedding is relevant because it means the two aren't exactly the same.

 

Let's analyse the facts here.

1) The Guardian has, as far as we can tell, exactly the same effect as a Stedding in relation to the One Power. While under the effects of either, you cannot so much as sense the Source.

 

No. As far as we can tell the Guardian only shares one characteristic of a stedding and that is to cut off channelers from the True Source.

 

2) There is a quote stating that the Guardian works in the same way as a Stedding. The source may not be 100% guaranteed to be right, but there's some form of evidence there anyway.

 

This Wind Finder you keep referencing has no knowledge of the Guardian. She can't even see it when she says this. All she can feel is the effect of it.

 

What other facts do we know? Diddly-squat.

Ultimately, if you want to be stubborn you can be. However, there's no factual basis you've made clear for claiming that a well would not work in a stedding.

 

You haven't given any factual basis either! "Hey, Pot? Yea, it's Kettle. Just called to say that you're black. See ya!"

 

You're entire argument, so far as I can tell, is based on the comparison of a Wind Finder who is completely ignorant of the workings of the Guardian. She immediately thinks of a stedding because its all she has to compare it to. The fact is that the Guardian does not make Far Madding a stedding simply because one of the effects it has is similar.

 

By the way, at least I've directly quoted passages from the book. Although you seem to be ignoring those. I haven't seen you quote this Wind Finder of yours once. When I get a hold of the book I'll try to find it for you. Maybe that will help you "build a proper argument."

[johthohar]

I'm sure you guys can agree to disagree so that we can move this discussion back to Rand.

 

I would be happy to if he/she would acknowledge the points I've made and quit attacking my arguments and accusing me of fallacies I'm not guilty of.

[capuga]

About Aviendhas pregnancy, I believe Rand knocked her up when they sheltered in the snow in Seanchan after she fled from him through a gateway in Rhuidean and that the wise ones had somehow delayed it with their knowledge and the power.

 

Other than that, the oddness could either be the fact that two are Rands and two are LTTs as pointed out earlier, or perhaps one will be Rand reborn again (if he dies).

 

To what end would the Wise Ones be delaying her pregnancy? Even if they had a reason it seems unlikely that this is the case. When Elayne and Avi bond each other as sisters (which is after Rand and Avi have sex) Melaine, who is not even a direct recepient of the bond in this ceremony, is not allowed to participate in the ceremony because she is pregnant and the babes would then be affected by the bonding. So it seems unlikely that they would allow Avi to perform this ceremony if she was pregnant.

 

As for the oddness of Avi's 4 babies, in ToM Avi goes to Rhuidean and sees visions of a potential future. In this future, her children are somehow always embracing the Source as if it is part of their physical nature. This seems to me to now be the most likely interpretation of this viewing even though that future is obviously not set in stone.