Cyndane

[doomsgate]

the great white book never said who led the drilling and RJ's quote doesnt say either so its still a valid theory that

the DO did something to enhance lanfears negative personality traits. the white book did mention that some sources claimed

that lanfear led the drilling. not conclusive proof but hmmm makes ya think. i personally think cyndane will be redeemed and

as is the common trait of all redeemed darkfriends die.

[Mats Spare Hat]

I wonder how much a Cyndane/Lanfear redemption would have to do with what she might have asked for in Finn-land.

 

Let's say, for funzies, she wants LTT/Rand to love her. Maybe she acquires the means or knowledge of how to put that together from the Finns, but then obviously she dies. Because she's sworn to the DO, El Darko resurrects her, so she's given new life - possibly she also retains memories and such from her previous incarnation, which is a big IF, granted.

 

So, DO resurrects her, but knows she's been to Finn-land and I assume, has a pretty good grasp of what the chick's all about when it comes to wants and desires. Bingo-Bango, She's gets to be put in a mind-trap, so she can't go about all free willing herself to her own desired end with complete disregard for how the DO wants things to go down. Quite possible, she might even have knowledge of how the good guy might be able to seal up the DO?

 

All that taken into account: As Lanfear, she gets into Finn-land, and she finds out to make LTT/Rand hers. Part of that might actually mean she has to turn from the Shadow to make it happen, if at all it can. She dies, but because she's tied to the DO, she gets resurrected into a new body - soulful knowledge intact(assumption). Also, assuming the DO knows what's up with her motivations, he says "Hey, mindtrap this lady so she can't pull a switcheroo"

 

My bet, and I don't think it's a stretch at all, is that any redemption on Lanfear/Cyndane's part will be because she wants in LTT/Rand's pants...Maybe she does go so far to redeem herself, but then Rand still says beat it hooker, at which point she'd probably get PO'd and brawl it up with whatever one or more of Rand's harem happen to be thereabouts.

 

...Should be fun!

[jsbrads]

Meirin may have split from her alterego the evil... maybe she asked to be seperated from her good side (both the good side and the bad side would rather be seperated from the other)

She is one of the only people who might get away with saying she turned to the dark by duress as she was in the sphere at the entrance to the bore when they made it.

 

That the 100 champions, may have gone mad on day 1 seems unlikely, what was LTT Kinslayer be doing hanging out at home unsupervised when he snapped and killed everyone, that implies he returned home and then eventually snapped unexpectedly. either way the rest of the men clearly took time to break that was clearly mentioned

[Barid Bel Medar]

Havent read through the whole thing, so ill bring it up, sorry if it has been said.

 

Even though I am against the idea of Cyndane's redemption, while it was definitely not possible if she was still Lanfear, i can see a possibility.

 

Observe Aran'gar - once Balthamael. transmigrated into a body of a woman. While a bulk of Balthamael's personality dominates his new body, he also has memories of the new body, and, for lack of a better word, "fuses" with the body's experiences, changing Balthamael. He-now she(or was)- became attracted to men as the host body was, he remembered different traits etc.. from the body. Similarly this is also observed by Aginor (Dashiva, Osangar) in his first PoV (CoS I think, I dont have the book on me)

 

 

Anyway, with that said, apply that to Cyndane. Could her "fusion" with the host body changed her enough to want redemption?

 

I dont think that the fusion would affect the personality THAT much, but just tossing it out there.

[Mickel]

I think everyone has some great ideas on the subject and I'll add mine.

 

I agree that Cydane could have either

1) Set a trap or

2) Be genuine.

 

As for setting a trap, well she wanted Rand dead, he had spurned her. In the epilogue SH does tell Graendal that the task has been left to someone else. By no means does this specifically mean Cyndane, could be Moridin, Demandred, etc. However, she has been out of action for quite a long time. Messy is gone, Demandred wasn't even in the book, well he could of been, Moridin seemed to want to let him go and face him at the end (I think), plus I don't think SH would point it out if it was going to be Moridin, and Moggy is out of action (although it still could be her). Cyndane does have the power to invade dreams (that was her area of expertise in the AoL?) and Rand was surprised to see/hear someone else in his dreams. I know Moridin has the power also, I would just put it forward that he'd be the one using her. If it is a trap, how perfect to shatter Rands new found sense of peace. I think the betrayal would end up in her death, she is just a tool to be used by Moridin, and could send Rand mentally and physically over the edge in the last battle where the DO could use that to his advantage and to turn Rand to his side finally.

 

As for being genuine. She could be being punished for her failure at the Choedan Kal, sure the other forsaken may not have been punished or as severely for all we know, however she did plan on betraying the DO and was given a last chance, where she failed. I think Lanfears main motivation has always been power, Lews Therin through Rand does tell her that, however, having your bones smashed every night then being left to die then healed would make anyone beg for help, to feel regret for past actions and decide to help the light. If she is genuine, I can see her helping Rand, but Moridin killing her. She may be the key to sealing the bore properly. Maybe in her death she will tell Rand how to do it, she did break it open.

 

Also for her wishes with the Aelfinn/Eelfinn, maybe she didn't get them? I'm not sure on what the finns stance is on the shadow, if they even know about it etc, but she is rescued by Moridin (seems to be the most logical after what Moiraine had said about the man appearing). And if she got wishes, would not your first one be to be freed from the Mind Trap? Seems the most logical. There is the problem of the resurrection tho. Maybe the price was her life as with Mat?

 

Anyway, these are just points I have considered. Which one do I think will happen? I think it could swing either way. A trap seems more logical, but I want her to be genuine. I always thought she'd come good at the very end.

[Thews Lerin]

When I first read the dream/skull scene, I thought "This is a trap" especially with the previous scene where SH says that someone else is dealing with Rand.

After reading through this thread, I have to ask myself, if it's a trap, to what end? The skull setting makes it seem like the mind trap is involved, which would indicate Moridin. Moridin has made it clear that he wants the other Forsaken to leave Rand to him and that he plans to kill Rand in the LB (see Semirhage). So, I think that speaks against it being a trap. I doubt that Cynfear could do it on her own, without Moridin knowing about it.

 

On the other hand: SH says "This opportunity has been given to another." Which indicates that even though Moridin wants Rand to make it to the Last Battle, maybe Shaidar Haran does not. Which means that the GLOD doesn't. Obviously, if the GLOD wanted Rand at the LB, he would just direct all of the Chosen/Forsaken to leave Rand alone, hide somewhere, and wait for the LB. I'm kind of surprised that he hasn't anyway, because many of his best weapons have gotten picked off (balefired) over the course of the series.

 

So now, I'm going off topic - IMHO, the fact that some of the Chosen have been assigned to take out Rand and the other ta'veren means that the DO is afraid of Rand & Co. Otherwise, he'd just say, "wait until I get out, and leave them to me." Which means that Rand has a strong chance of succeeding in his plan. Just saying...

[Val Mickey]

I always thought she'd come good at the very end.

 

Love, the great redeemer. That's pop fiction.

[moratcorlm]

Love, the great redeemer. That's pop fiction.

...read "Veins of Gold" lately?

[Val Mickey]

Love, the great redeemer. That's pop fiction.

...read "Veins of Gold" lately?

That was enlightenment.

[Demiandre]

Had a thought after reading someone mentioning Moridin killing Cyndane after she helps Rand. We know the Power shall not touch the Dark One, because he would be able to taint it. What if Cyndane's redemption was to become the shield between the Power and the Bore? Her dead body at Moridin's hand used to seal the Prison. :)

[Val Mickey]

What if Cyndane has kidnapped Alanna, forced her to pass the bond, and is then haunting Rand's dreams? :blink: :wacko:

[Guest Emu on the Loose]

It would be deliciously hilarious if Rand became Mierin Eronaile's Warder. Maybe they really would end up ruling the universe together, too!

 

That's one of the favorite "what-ifs" for me in the series. Haven't you ever wondered what would have happened if, when Darth Vader gave Luke Skywalker that whole "Join me and together we can rule the galaxy!" spiel, Luke had said "Hell yeah!"? I've always wondered the same thing about Rand and Mierin. They'd be unstoppable together, much more interesting a story to read than the one we got, even if the one we got is pretty darn good too.

[Thews Lerin]

What if Cyndane has kidnapped Alanna, forced her to pass the bond, and is then haunting Rand's dreams? :blink: :wacko:

 

Very interesting idea.

The only thing I can think of that would speak against it is how Lan knew when his bond was passed to Nynaeve. I would think Rand would notice, but maybe not, since he's got 4 women to keep track of (bond-wise) and he seems to have put Alanna on ignore except when he wants to pay attention to her.

 

Also, I don't know what the bond has to do with access to his dreams.

The more I think about it, the more it seems like the likeliest scenario is that she has access to his dreams through his link with Moridin. We've already seen Rand and Moridin meet in the dream. What will become of it, (e.g. Rand getting distracted from the LB to save Cynfear) is anyone's guess until AMoL. Rand does try to reach for her as she's being towed off stage. Then he feels hatred, concern, and desire. Since hatred and concern don't normally go together, I would guess the hatred is for her torturer, and the concern and desire are for her. JMHO

[Val Mickey]

Also, I don't know what the bond has to do with access to his dreams.

The more I think about it, the more it seems like the likeliest scenario is that she has access to his dreams through his link with Moridin. We've already seen Rand and Moridin meet in the dream.

 

Moirane in TGH asked Lan if he dreamed of 'anything else'. In TDR, she tells Perrin, that AS give Warders some sort of dream shield as part of their bonding. How is that possible? Warders cannot channel. The only explanation I can come up with is while AS shield their dreams, they 'envelope' their warders. Which explains why Moirane knew Lan's dreams.

 

It does not explain why Alanna couldn't know of Rand's dreams before, but Rand's own shield might have something to do with that. An accomplished Dreamer could break through Rand's shield - but Rand would know it.

 

And how is Lanfear getting into Rand's dreams via Moridin even plausible? Moridin is letting in Lanfear into his head? I doubt that. OTOH, Moridin could let her in to be punished... I think it would be the other way around. Moridin would enter Lanfear's dreams to punish her. It is out of character for Moridin to be doing such a menial task, but hey, Cyndane is kinda hot.

[Demiandre]

Egwene couldn't enter Rand's dreams, and she tried some times.

The Cour'souvra trap the spirit (spirit which is the flow used on dreaming ter'angreal). Rand accessed Moridin's dreams in tGS. Rand was in his dream, and went into Moridin's dreams/head where he found Lanfear, trapped also by the cour'souvra while sleeping.

 

I don't see how it is implausible, Val Mickey

[Val Mickey]

Cour'souvras trap a part of the soul, not the Spirit of the OP. Anyway, that is in a ter'angreal(?) outside Moridin's body. How does Cyndane get into Moridin's head? Unless M lets her in. Which I don't like. I can see it happen, though. Anyways my theory is a certified loony one.

[Lacanos]

What if Cyndane has kidnapped Alanna, forced her to pass the bond, and is then haunting Rand's dreams? :blink: :wacko:

 

Very interesting idea.

The only thing I can think of that would speak against it is how Lan knew when his bond was passed to Nynaeve. I would think Rand would notice, but maybe not, since he's got 4 women to keep track of (bond-wise) and he seems to have put Alanna on ignore except when he wants to pay attention to her.

 

Also, I don't know what the bond has to do with access to his dreams.

The more I think about it, the more it seems like the likeliest scenario is that she has access to his dreams through his link with Moridin. We've already seen Rand and Moridin meet in the dream. What will become of it, (e.g. Rand getting distracted from the LB to save Cynfear) is anyone's guess until AMoL. Rand does try to reach for her as she's being towed off stage. Then he feels hatred, concern, and desire. Since hatred and concern don't normally go together, I would guess the hatred is for her torturer, and the concern and desire are for her. JMHO

It's quite clear that the hatred, desire and concern are all felt towards her - while having such emotions at once may not be "normal", I think Cyandane's past actions take us a little beyond normal. He hates her for turning to the shadow, killing people etc, feels concern because he's being set up to still care about her, and feels desire because he probably still "loves" her a little, and she was incredibly attractive?

[Toy and Minion]

I may be a dolt, but I actually felt sorry for Cyndane. It seemed very real and human. Moridin could be using it as a trap, but that wouldn't necessarily mean that Cyndane is trying to trap Rand. Could be genuine, and Moridin going to use it to his advantage.

 

If Rand even acts upon it, which of course, he will. Otherwise the scene wouldn't have needed to be there.

 

Don't think Cyndane will survive it though.

[Alachar]

It sounds maybe strange, but i think Lanfear will be one of the three.

 

I think she will be in the circle with Rand and Callandor. She will help him to win Tarmon'Gaidon in the last hour of her live. She will realize that she made a mistake to go to the schadow and will die in the Light to pat the price for that mistake.

 

just my thoughts