Elayne's Arc

[Mr Ares]

To be honest, I find Elayne to be among the more irritating characters in the entire series, and it's got nothing to do with BS's writing style.

 

Her plan to get more information - while being clever in its own right, was poorly planned and I suppose that's part of her entire character - she's supposed to be this recklessly brave individual (drawing parallels, I suppose, to Ilyena Sunhair). What annoys me is that she's being portrayed in two different ways; the first being this recklessly poor planner of a person, the second being Thom's intellectual love-child with her seemingly adept feel for the Game of Houses. Even Morgase is falling down at Elayne's feet over how brilliant a Queen she's going to be.

 

I don't really think you can have both personality types, personally. It just doesn't feel right.

In what way was it poorly planned? How could the plan have been refined?

 

A simple tackle? This is how you can hurt a powerful channeller holding the Source and watching you carefully? What are the odds of that happening? It's more likely for Elayne to be hit by a meteor standing in her garden. Especially considering Chesmal is an Aes Sedai and is used to do everything with the Power.

 

And don't think bringing up 20 guards in the dungeon with all the commotion this would lead to would alert Temaile that something is fishy?

Yes ,a simple tackle.Said channeler was pregnant afterall and while up to that point that meant that she had trouble starting to channel , it could also interfere with other aspects as well.Sure , you might say, but that hadn't happened up until that point so it was unlikely to happen.Thing is , that's the problem : she did not stop to give that or anything else a thought.

Except she knows that her babies will be born healthy. Now, that doesn't mean no harm can befall her, nor does it mean those around her are safe, but she does have a guarantee of safety to some extent. So, what risk is posed by a simple tackle? Miscarriage is impossible, and she has plenty of Healers in the city if she does suffer any injury. The situation was:

Elayne could channel, the person she was interrogating was shielded,

She has guards outside,

She can't lose her kids, and is very unlikely to suffer any permanent, serious injury to her own person,

No-one else is being put at risk,

She was masquerading as an ally.

There really was no reasonable risk of any serious harm coming to herself or anyone else as a result of her plan. I still have yet to see any decent explanation for why what she did in the dungeon was in any way foolish or poorly planned.

[FarShainMael]

No link to what you had just said but i was reading some of the old Viewing of Min ;

One of the very first she had (and the first viewing of the wot character are often important)

A severed hand, not hers.

It is a wild guess but considering her ability to create ter'angreal and The unknown flaw of Callandor .

Could she Make an hand Ter'angreal that can wield Callandor ?

Not sure about that

 

Its possible. I thought the viewing of Rand holding Callandor in a hand of black onyx was him with a hand ter'angreal. Its also possible that the severed hand is her in control of a portion of the Band of the Red Hand now that they have a contract with Andor.

Yes perhaps , I am really uncertain

 

Perhaps she could do Mat an eye ter'angreal while she's at it.. and perhaps something for Perrin's leg.

[FarShainMael]

I have a bit of a difficult time with all of it. On the one hand, I think they should take one problem at a time, concentrate on Tarmon Gaidon, win that, and THEN worry about what comes next. But on the other hand, the surest way to succeed is to proceed on the basis that you will, that success is inevitable. That means that you do think ahead and spend most of your time planning for what happens after TG.

 

Like everything in life ( fictional or real ) it's all a matter of balance. You need both a plan for how to win and also a plan for how life goes on afterwards.

 

If Rand has a really big fault, it's that until now he has given no thought to what comes after TG, because he expects to die. Maybe Mahatma Rand will get beyond that and give a thought or three to what happens next.

Not quite no thought, no. He left other people in charge of various places that he conquered, specifically so that they wouldn't fall apart on his death. And then there's that school he founded.

[Bob T Dwarf]

I have a bit of a difficult time with all of it. On the one hand, I think they should take one problem at a time, concentrate on Tarmon Gaidon, win that, and THEN worry about what comes next. But on the other hand, the surest way to succeed is to proceed on the basis that you will, that success is inevitable. That means that you do think ahead and spend most of your time planning for what happens after TG.

 

Like everything in life ( fictional or real ) it's all a matter of balance. You need both a plan for how to win and also a plan for how life goes on afterwards.

 

If Rand has a really big fault, it's that until now he has given no thought to what comes after TG, because he expects to die. Maybe Mahatma Rand will get beyond that and give a thought or three to what happens next.

Not quite no thought, no. He left other people in charge of various places that he conquered, specifically so that they wouldn't fall apart on his death. And then there's that school he founded.

 

I'd kinda forgotten that. Yes, he has founded schools of advanced study in both Cairhien and Caemlyn. Hopefully they'll both outlive him.

[AutomatedTeller]

To be honest, I find Elayne to be among the more irritating characters in the entire series, and it's got nothing to do with BS's writing style.

 

Her plan to get more information - while being clever in its own right, was poorly planned and I suppose that's part of her entire character - she's supposed to be this recklessly brave individual (drawing parallels, I suppose, to Ilyena Sunhair). What annoys me is that she's being portrayed in two different ways; the first being this recklessly poor planner of a person, the second being Thom's intellectual love-child with her seemingly adept feel for the Game of Houses. Even Morgase is falling down at Elayne's feet over how brilliant a Queen she's going to be.

 

I don't really think you can have both personality types, personally. It just doesn't feel right.

In what way was it poorly planned? How could the plan have been refined?

 

A simple tackle? This is how you can hurt a powerful channeller holding the Source and watching you carefully? What are the odds of that happening? It's more likely for Elayne to be hit by a meteor standing in her garden. Especially considering Chesmal is an Aes Sedai and is used to do everything with the Power.

 

And don't think bringing up 20 guards in the dungeon with all the commotion this would lead to would alert Temaile that something is fishy?

Yes ,a simple tackle.Said channeler was pregnant afterall and while up to that point that meant that she had trouble starting to channel , it could also interfere with other aspects as well.Sure , you might say, but that hadn't happened up until that point so it was unlikely to happen.Thing is , that's the problem : she did not stop to give that or anything else a thought.

Except she knows that her babies will be born healthy. Now, that doesn't mean no harm can befall her, nor does it mean those around her are safe, but she does have a guarantee of safety to some extent. So, what risk is posed by a simple tackle? Miscarriage is impossible, and she has plenty of Healers in the city if she does suffer any injury. The situation was:

Elayne could channel, the person she was interrogating was shielded,

She has guards outside,

She can't lose her kids, and is very unlikely to suffer any permanent, serious injury to her own person,

No-one else is being put at risk,

She was masquerading as an ally.

There really was no reasonable risk of any serious harm coming to herself or anyone else as a result of her plan. I still have yet to see any decent explanation for why what she did in the dungeon was in any way foolish or poorly planned.

 

There are a large variety of ways she could have come to serious harm - losing a leg, or an arm - being seriously disfigured, being captured, being put under heavy compulsion are just a few.

 

The key isn't that there is a major likelihood that something will happen - it's that the possible consequences are so vast, that it's a terrible risk. and that she took this risk when Birgitte wasn't around, partly because she knew that Birgitte would object...

 

it's kind of like the president ducking his bodyguards and flying to gitmo to interrogate al qaeda terrorists. Just a bad idea.

 

or, in WoT terms, like Rand jumping around the world and seeing the Aes Sedai alone, with no guards, in LoC. he didn't die, but the results were a near disaster for Randland...

[JohnnyBeGood]

To be honest, I find Elayne to be among the more irritating characters in the entire series, and it's got nothing to do with BS's writing style.

 

Her plan to get more information - while being clever in its own right, was poorly planned and I suppose that's part of her entire character - she's supposed to be this recklessly brave individual (drawing parallels, I suppose, to Ilyena Sunhair). What annoys me is that she's being portrayed in two different ways; the first being this recklessly poor planner of a person, the second being Thom's intellectual love-child with her seemingly adept feel for the Game of Houses. Even Morgase is falling down at Elayne's feet over how brilliant a Queen she's going to be.

 

I don't really think you can have both personality types, personally. It just doesn't feel right.

In what way was it poorly planned? How could the plan have been refined?

 

A simple tackle? This is how you can hurt a powerful channeller holding the Source and watching you carefully? What are the odds of that happening? It's more likely for Elayne to be hit by a meteor standing in her garden. Especially considering Chesmal is an Aes Sedai and is used to do everything with the Power.

 

And don't think bringing up 20 guards in the dungeon with all the commotion this would lead to would alert Temaile that something is fishy?

Yes ,a simple tackle.Said channeler was pregnant afterall and while up to that point that meant that she had trouble starting to channel , it could also interfere with other aspects as well.Sure , you might say, but that hadn't happened up until that point so it was unlikely to happen.Thing is , that's the problem : she did not stop to give that or anything else a thought.

Except she knows that her babies will be born healthy. Now, that doesn't mean no harm can befall her, nor does it mean those around her are safe, but she does have a guarantee of safety to some extent. So, what risk is posed by a simple tackle? Miscarriage is impossible, and she has plenty of Healers in the city if she does suffer any injury. The situation was:

Elayne could channel, the person she was interrogating was shielded,

She has guards outside,

She can't lose her kids, and is very unlikely to suffer any permanent, serious injury to her own person,

No-one else is being put at risk,

She was masquerading as an ally.

There really was no reasonable risk of any serious harm coming to herself or anyone else as a result of her plan. I still have yet to see any decent explanation for why what she did in the dungeon was in any way foolish or poorly planned.

 

There are a large variety of ways she could have come to serious harm - losing a leg, or an arm - being seriously disfigured, being captured, being put under heavy compulsion are just a few.

 

All those involve something totally unforeseeable happening which could have happened anywhere at anytime, with or without Brigitte there. How high were the chances(besides her being taveren) that she would pull this off exactly the moment there was a ridiculously successful Escape attempt was preformed(one lone man killing several guards and kinswomen without causing a racket).

I think the chances of a planned assassination or kidnapping attempt are higher or even wining against Matt deicing.

[capuga]

Since Sylvase's secretary/torturer was a darkfriend, should we assume that she is as well?

[Bob T Dwarf]

or, in WoT terms, like Rand jumping around the world and seeing the Aes Sedai alone, with no guards, in LoC. he didn't die, but the results were a near disaster for Randland...

 

One question - what use have his guards EVER been? Talk about useless, those Maidens have so much toh to him for all the times they've dropped the ball it's pathetic.

 

Grey men. Forsaken. Drakhar. Darkhounds. Not only did they let his kidnappers in, they let them out with him in the box.

 

He does far better, and is in far less threat of harm when he is away from them than when he is anywhere around them.

[Baelorn]

Actually he'd be dead if a Maiden hadn't taken a Whitecloak arrow for him.

[f3llyn]

I have a bit of a difficult time with all of it. On the one hand, I think they should take one problem at a time, concentrate on Tarmon Gaidon, win that, and THEN worry about what comes next. But on the other hand, the surest way to succeed is to proceed on the basis that you will, that success is inevitable. That means that you do think ahead and spend most of your time planning for what happens after TG.

 

Like everything in life ( fictional or real ) it's all a matter of balance. You need both a plan for how to win and also a plan for how life goes on afterwards.

 

If Rand has a really big fault, it's that until now he has given no thought to what comes after TG, because he expects to die. Maybe Mahatma Rand will get beyond that and give a thought or three to what happens next.

In a way that's true, but it's also not. He expects to die, so in preparation for that he founded the schools in Cairhien and Caemlyn(I don't remember if he started one in Tear or not). This is how he is giving back, if you will, or preparing for the future after the Last Battle.

 

For him to actually think about living beyond TG it would probably ruin him. The thought that he wants to live past it might prevent him from taking a desperate action that he might need to win.

[David Selig]

it's kind of like the president ducking his bodyguards and flying to gitmo to interrogate al qaeda terrorists. Just a bad idea.

This a bad comparison. There are numerous people in the US military who are more qualified than the president to interrogate terrorists. So there's no point taking even the most minimal risk to do it.

 

In Elayne's case though, she's the only one in Caemlyn with the skills and strength in the Power to have a chance to successfully impersonate a Forsaken. Yes, there was some risk, though really small, but the potential payoff (learning the plans of the Shadow about her, etc) was quite significant.

[Tom Sawyer]

Since Sylvase's secretary/torturer was a darkfriend, should we assume that she is as well?

 

I always thought that she was Lanfear and there was going to be a bit about her finding out that Elayne was pregnant with Rand's kids and going all psycho ex-girlfriend on her. Then it turns out that she's probably nothing.

 

It is kind of weird, however, that her number two guy is a DF and nobody even decided to get suspicious about her.

[BladeDancer]

I was a bit disappointed with Elayne's reception of Perrin. She treated him a bit too distantly rather than warmly. Yes, he raised a banner for the 2 Rivers which is technically part of Andor but Perrin is clearly closely allied to Rand. She should be thanking Perrin for saving the 2 Rivers. If not for Perrin's efforts then the 2 Rivers would be populated only by Trollocs, and Trollocs don't pay taxes either Elayne! Plus Perrin helped rescue her Mother from being a slave to the Shaido, treated her well and kept her safe and brought her back to Caemlyn. That is no small thing.

 

Elayne might not have been close friends to Perrin beforehand, but she is extremely close to Egwene, Nynaeve, Rand and knows Matt pretty well and they are obviously all very close to Perrin. Elayne and Perrin and Faile were all in the Stone of Tear when Rand took the Stone and they all spent some time there before Elayne left by Ship to Tanchico and Perrin left for the 2 Rivers via the Ways. I just thought Elayne would have been more friendly to Perrin due to their mutual close friends.

[Bob T Dwarf]

I was a bit disappointed with Elayne's reception of Perrin. She treated him a bit too distantly rather than warmly. Yes, he raised a banner for the 2 Rivers which is technically part of Andor but Perrin is clearly closely allied to Rand. She should be thanking Perrin for saving the 2 Rivers. If not for Perrin's efforts then the 2 Rivers would be populated only by Trollocs, and Trollocs don't pay taxes either Elayne! Plus Perrin helped rescue her Mother from being a slave to the Shaido, treated her well and kept her safe and brought her back to Caemlyn. That is no small thing.

 

Elayne might not have been close friends to Perrin beforehand, but she is extremely close to Egwene, Nynaeve, Rand and knows Matt pretty well and they are obviously all very close to Perrin. Elayne and Perrin and Faile were all in the Stone of Tear when Rand took the Stone and they all spent some time there before Elayne left by Ship to Tanchico and Perrin left for the 2 Rivers via the Ways. I just thought Elayne would have been more friendly to Perrin due to their mutual close friends.

 

In addition to the raising a banner and acting the lord thing, we need to remember that Rand and Perrin staged a fight and a falling-out just before Perrin went off on his own. For all Elayne knows, Perrin really is a rebel and opposed to Rand. After hearing some of her mother's story, I'd guess she knows he isn't Dark, but that's about all she currently knows about where Perrin's head, heart, and loyalty lies.

 

She was right, on many levels to remind him rather bluntly that he did have fences to mend.

[David Selig]

Perrin and Elayne weren't friends by any means, they barely knew each other. In fact I don't think they spoke to each other at all in the previous books. When they were in Tear, they kept apart. I can't remember the other Two Rivers characters mentioning Perrin to Elayne much either.

 

Perrin raised an army on Andoran territory, declared himself lord and even worse, raised the banner of Manetheren, a country which had consisted not only of Two Rivers, but had included other parts of Andor too (tax-paying ones with rich mines). So Elayne certainly had good reasons to be angry at Perrin politically. She didn't know he was forced into all of this, for all she knew before their meeting he might've been hungry for more glory and wanting to take over the whole of Western Andor. Was she supposed to be ignore all that and greet him warmly, because he is a friend of her friends?

 

All things considered, she treated him fairly IMO and neither him or Faile complained, so I don't see a problem.

[IceGhost13]

It seemed to me that Birgitte is the only one who really gets the whole "I am become death, destroyer of worlds" thing when the dragon is launched for the first time. It's fairly obvious why this is the case, but this concerns me. Elayne is already thinking of how these could be used to benefit Andor after the LB, and this chills me a little. I can understand the other motivations behind her choices (this one too to an extent) but (especially considering Avi's visions in the columns) this does not bode well... no it does not.

 

(lol, this is my first post, by the way!)

[Demon_AS]

To be honest, I find Elayne to be among the more irritating characters in the entire series, and it's got nothing to do with BS's writing style.

 

Her plan to get more information - while being clever in its own right, was poorly planned and I suppose that's part of her entire character - she's supposed to be this recklessly brave individual (drawing parallels, I suppose, to Ilyena Sunhair). What annoys me is that she's being portrayed in two different ways; the first being this recklessly poor planner of a person, the second being Thom's intellectual love-child with her seemingly adept feel for the Game of Houses. Even Morgase is falling down at Elayne's feet over how brilliant a Queen she's going to be.

 

I don't really think you can have both personality types, personally. It just doesn't feel right.

In what way was it poorly planned? How could the plan have been refined?

She had given no thought to the worst-case scenario.

 

No general in a battle worth the title would commit to a plan without having at least two or three outs for every forseeable situation. And I know what you're going to say - she could not have forseen the attack coming - but she should have anticipated things getting out of control.

 

She's pregnant, she can't channel reliably, and she storms in on a plan that relies wholly on the OP based on the hope that Min's prediction means what she thought it did (and we know that while they've all come true, some didn't happen the way we expected) and that she didn't lose control of saidar.

 

I'm sorry, but all of that shows a fundamental lack of planning.

[dwn]

To be honest, I find Elayne to be among the more irritating characters in the entire series, and it's got nothing to do with BS's writing style.

 

Her plan to get more information - while being clever in its own right, was poorly planned and I suppose that's part of her entire character - she's supposed to be this recklessly brave individual (drawing parallels, I suppose, to Ilyena Sunhair). What annoys me is that she's being portrayed in two different ways; the first being this recklessly poor planner of a person, the second being Thom's intellectual love-child with her seemingly adept feel for the Game of Houses. Even Morgase is falling down at Elayne's feet over how brilliant a Queen she's going to be.

 

I don't really think you can have both personality types, personally. It just doesn't feel right.

In what way was it poorly planned? How could the plan have been refined?

 

She had given no thought to the worst-case scenario.

 

No general in a battle worth the title would commit to a plan without having at least two or three outs for every forseeable situation. And I know what you're going to say - she could not have forseen the attack coming - but she should have anticipated things getting out of control.

 

She's pregnant, she can't channel reliably, and she storms in on a plan that relies wholly on the OP based on the hope that Min's prediction means what she thought it did (and we know that while they've all come true, some didn't happen the way we expected) and that she didn't lose control of saidar.

 

I'm sorry, but all of that shows a fundamental lack of planning.

 

So Elayne didn't plan for a completely unpredictable event happening at the exact moment she was questioning the BA?

 

She has Kin outside the cells maintaining the shields on the prisoners. She also has guards nearby. Worst (reasonable) case she has allies within shouting distance.

 

Elayne doesn't have trouble channeling; she had trouble embracing saidar. She was already touching the source, so it wasn't a risk.

 

Honestly, the only thing about that sequence that bothered me is that it failed due to something so random. I've been waiting for Elayne, Egwene or Nynaeve to try impersonating one of the Forsaken since TFoH.

 

-- dwn

[Demon_AS]

To be honest, I find Elayne to be among the more irritating characters in the entire series, and it's got nothing to do with BS's writing style.

 

Her plan to get more information - while being clever in its own right, was poorly planned and I suppose that's part of her entire character - she's supposed to be this recklessly brave individual (drawing parallels, I suppose, to Ilyena Sunhair). What annoys me is that she's being portrayed in two different ways; the first being this recklessly poor planner of a person, the second being Thom's intellectual love-child with her seemingly adept feel for the Game of Houses. Even Morgase is falling down at Elayne's feet over how brilliant a Queen she's going to be.

 

I don't really think you can have both personality types, personally. It just doesn't feel right.

In what way was it poorly planned? How could the plan have been refined?

 

She had given no thought to the worst-case scenario.

 

No general in a battle worth the title would commit to a plan without having at least two or three outs for every forseeable situation. And I know what you're going to say - she could not have forseen the attack coming - but she should have anticipated things getting out of control.

 

She's pregnant, she can't channel reliably, and she storms in on a plan that relies wholly on the OP based on the hope that Min's prediction means what she thought it did (and we know that while they've all come true, some didn't happen the way we expected) and that she didn't lose control of saidar.

 

I'm sorry, but all of that shows a fundamental lack of planning.

 

So Elayne didn't plan for a completely unpredictable event happening at the exact moment she was questioning the BA?

 

She has Kin outside the cells maintaining the shields on the prisoners. She also has guards nearby. Worst (reasonable) case she has allies within shouting distance.

 

Elayne doesn't have trouble channeling; she had trouble embracing saidar. She was already touching the source, so it wasn't a risk.

 

Honestly, the only thing about that sequence that bothered me is that it failed due to something so random. I've been waiting for Elayne, Egwene or Nynaeve to try impersonating one of the Forsaken since TFoH.

 

-- dwn

I suspect this is a matter of opinion. I didn't get the impression that she had her usual control over the OP, but your distinction may well be accurate.

 

Nevertheless, she took a pointless risk without really informing anyone, which is stupid. Basing it all on Min's prediction seems a bit chancy to me - but as I say, this is just my opinion.

[dwn]

Nevertheless, she took a pointless risk without really informing anyone, which is stupid. Basing it all on Min's prediction seems a bit chancy to me - but as I say, this is just my opinion.

 

Elayne's bodyguards were in on it, and waiting on the other side of the gateway. Her biggest mistake--and one she should be spanked for--was holding onto the foxhead medallion rather than wearing it.

 

I certainly agree Elayne's being dippy about how much protection Min's viewing gives her.

 

-- dwn

[Charlz Guybon]

Elayne went back and forth for me in this book. On the one hand, I liked the way that she was trying to make Andor as strong and secure as possible to both be able to help Rand in the Last Battle and counter the Seanchan in the post-LB world, but on the other hand, given the number of times that she's been captured because of her idiocy, did she not figure that maybe going down alone to meet with the BA might not have been a good idea? Also, why were those BA's there anyways? Either execute them for being Darkfriends or toss them up to the Tower where there's more Aes Sedai to deal with them. It seems silly to just have them sitting around with a couple of people holding shields on them when she's personally seen how the Shadow sends people into dungeons to kill off captured BA members.

 

 

Because miss 'I'm so smart and powerful and all should bow to me now' always thinks she knows best, always is convinced she's better and stronger than others and always acts like a spoiled brat that wants her way (ever since she arrived in Andor to take the throne, I actually liked her better as Accepted). It's the same thing over and over again: arrogance. Nevermind how many lives and souls she risks, so long as she gets her way.

Don't give me that crap, that plan was brilliant. She had a shit ton of back up. The guardswomen on the other side of the gateway and the Kin on the other side of the cell door. The reason the plan failed is she's unlucky. The odds of her being interrupted by a successful escape attempt is astronomical. Mat's plan was far more risky in comparison and could have easily got Talmanes and the red arms killed. But of course since Mat's taveren he succeeded. That's all there is to it.

[Demon_AS]

Nevertheless, she took a pointless risk without really informing anyone, which is stupid. Basing it all on Min's prediction seems a bit chancy to me - but as I say, this is just my opinion.

 

Elayne's bodyguards were in on it, and waiting on the other side of the gateway. Her biggest mistake--and one she should be spanked for--was holding onto the foxhead medallion rather than wearing it.

 

I certainly agree Elayne's being dippy about how much protection Min's viewing gives her.

 

-- dwn

Dippy is exactly right.

 

Honestly, I used to like her character right up until she got back to Andor to claim the throne. Maybe it's her pregnancy that's made her unbearable in places, but I recall reading Winter's Heart and being sorely tempted to just skip her chapters altogether and focus on more interesting characters.

 

Right now her only interest to me is those babies she's carrying. I look forward to their birth.

[Terhan]

Elayne went back and forth for me in this book. On the one hand, I liked the way that she was trying to make Andor as strong and secure as possible to both be able to help Rand in the Last Battle and counter the Seanchan in the post-LB world, but on the other hand, given the number of times that she's been captured because of her idiocy, did she not figure that maybe going down alone to meet with the BA might not have been a good idea? Also, why were those BA's there anyways? Either execute them for being Darkfriends or toss them up to the Tower where there's more Aes Sedai to deal with them. It seems silly to just have them sitting around with a couple of people holding shields on them when she's personally seen how the Shadow sends people into dungeons to kill off captured BA members.

 

 

Because miss 'I'm so smart and powerful and all should bow to me now' always thinks she knows best, always is convinced she's better and stronger than others and always acts like a spoiled brat that wants her way (ever since she arrived in Andor to take the throne, I actually liked her better as Accepted). It's the same thing over and over again: arrogance. Nevermind how many lives and souls she risks, so long as she gets her way.

Don't give me that crap, that plan was brilliant. She had a shit ton of back up. The guardswomen on the other side of the gateway and the Kin on the other side of the cell door. The reason the plan failed is she's unlucky. The odds of her being interrupted by a successful escape attempt is astronomical. Mat's plan was far more risky in comparison and could have easily got Talmanes and the red arms killed. But of course since Mat's taveren he succeeded. That's all there is to it.

 

You're being sarcastic? It's hard to tell from your post..you don't really mean it was a brilliant plan? It was completely ridiculous is what it was, and another example of why Elayne has no business having the power she does. Every success she's ever had has been due to the acts and counsel of others. She stood on people's shoulders (Rand, Mat, Dyelin, Birgitte, etc.) to achieve what she has, and is somehow convinced she had something to do with it. It is mind-boggling how things like this are becoming such a noticeable pattern amongst the women in the series. Egwene behaves nearly as bad as she does, but I'd rather see Elayne bite the dust, kids or not, it'd be worth it to see her get killed because of her foolishness.

[WolfDragonFox]

I'm sitting here thinking who the hell does this chick think she is telling the King of Wolves who his pups are gonna marry? THE NERVE!!! haha Elayne was okay...she seems a bit One dimensional when she's on her own with no other Major female characters around.

[Charlz Guybon]

I would have preferred one of Perrin's "straightforward" responses to Elayne's silly little, "Can you think of a reason I shouldn't have you beheaded?"

 

Somnething along the lines of, "Because I have an army, larger and more seasoned than yours, waiting just outside. Shall I invite them in?"

 

He has like 50-60,000 men, Elayne has more than twice that, and that's not counting the Band of the Red Hand.