Discuss the Epiclogue

[Luckers]

For discussion of the Epilogue specifically. So, in line...

 

1. Graendal's in trouble.

2. Perrin realises Noam chose to become a wolf.

3. Olver's seems to be a budding sociopath, and Caemlyn is invaded by Shadowspawn. Talmanes fears the loss of the Dragons.

4. Creepy Red Aiel Dudes.

5. Rand dreams of Cyndane.

6. Lan reaches the Gap.

[The Desert Pea]

1) Graendal seems to have met the same punishment Messana did if I'm reading things correctly. Myrddraal rape I wonder how the DO/SH are going to use her from this point onward, I'm not entirely sure at this point in time.

 

2) This sets up Perrin to be a complete badass next book with his Hammer of Awesomeness.

 

3) I agree with the Olver becoming a sociopath part, kid is messed up. Caemlyn is in deep trouble though, and this is going to have severe ramifications in AMoL. The Shadow is striking hard and fast.

 

4) These guys seem so freaking familiar but I can't place my finger on it. Something about the filed teeth just rings a bell deep in the back of my head regarding WoT. My guess is either Sharamen or male Aiel channelers who went to the Blight to die who were turned by 13x13. Leaning towards the latter, but wishing for the former. I can't help but feel like Demandred is involved somehow though.

 

5) I don't even know what to think of this. A trap, or sincerity? Completely unexpected, I'll have to do some digging on this one.

 

6) He's going to die heroically, reading that part will be hard in AMoL.

[ghoullio]

Yeah, what was up with the Lanfear dream? Was it a ploy to get Rand to feel sorry for her, or is she really being tortured like that? That was one of the best epilogues in the series, by the way. Nice cliffhanger for AMoL.

 

The clues for Olver have been there, hopefully he will come around and embrace the light. The kids had a hard life though, so maybe not.

 

Cameyln being sacked was the biggest surprise. Perhaps that is why it is so crucial to TG. Ive been trying to think of who got left behind, but its not really clear. I'm glad that something bad is happening to Elayne, I never realized how arrogant she is until I read this book. The Light will probably lose the dragons, which may or may not change their approach to the Seanchan, who by the way seem to be gunnin pretty hard for the WT.

[Shai-tan]

1. Graendal: Well this told us who killed Asmo. I reckon Graendal will have some of SH's rough treatment and then a mind-trap

 

5. Rand and Cyndane: Desire ah..... Rand has enough women issues but it'd be very interesting to see if this is some kind of back up plan, like a trap.

 

6. Lan: I have a feeling he will die... It kinda sucks but I always considered he'd be the first major character from the first book to die

[GB]

i think/hope rand will send help to Lan in AMOL, he said a friend is riding for his death and probably thats where the first army will be sent with ashaman and aes sedai and redeeming the aes sedai in never coming to help Malkier.

 

well thats what i hope, i dont Nyn is pregnant yet, she of all people would know, and there is Min's viewing of a baby around Lan.

 

and as for the red veiled guys, my bet on aiel who were sent to the Blight, which I thought was the _________ in the blight and their pointy teeth could be due to their turning or the corruption for having to live in the Blight and the red veil is colour of the shadow, moridin has been using black and red.

 

 

olver, well he has grown up to become what he is now, due to the hardship he has suffered, and he is dealing with the death of his parents by seeking revenge, so hopefully in AMOL, he will get sense snapped into him or coming so close to dying in camelyn might change his perspective on things.

[Lynander]

4) These guys seem so freaking familiar but I can't place my finger on it. Something about the filed teeth just rings a bell deep in the back of my head regarding WoT. My guess is either Sharamen or male Aiel channelers who went to the Blight to die who were turned by 13x13. Leaning towards the latter, but wishing for the former. I can't help but feel like Demandred is involved somehow though.

 

 

You mean the Finns? They have pointy teeth.

 

The epilogue just makes the wait that much more unbearable.

[The Watcher and Wanderer]

For discussion of the Epilogue specifically. So, in line...

 

1. Graendal's in trouble.

 

Oh how the mighty have fallen!!! In one book she has gone from Junior Nae blis to SH's newest plaything. And possibly the newest mind trap recipient. None the less, I wouldn't count her out yet as I believe she still has a few tricks up her sleeve. I mean if there is anyone who could somehow beat the mind trap, or somehow manipulate her way out of it it would be Graendal.

 

2. Perrin realises Noam chose to become a wolf.

 

This is one of those things that now seems so obvious that I am now kicking myself for never even having considered this possibility.

 

3. Olver's seems to be a budding sociopath, and Caemlyn is invaded by Shadowspawn. Talmanes fears the loss of the Dragons.

 

New theory: The Caemyln way gate in in the wine pantry. RJ once said the the DO could not have tras-migrated Asmo's soul even if he'd wanted to because of how and WHERE he was killed. We don't know a any specific "wheres" that would prevent this, but the ways are a good possibility

 

4. Creepy Red Aiel Dudes.

 

The first thing that came to mind when I read this was Melana from Mortal Kombat lol. But I am thinking these are the male Aiel channelers who traveled to the blight. Whether that were subject tot he 13x13 treatment or if Aginor had his way with then I cannot say. Or perhaps it was some of both.

 

5. Rand dreams of Cyndane.

 

There is no way that Lanfear has been a damsel in distress the whole time, just not buying it. I think this is one final ploy by the Shadow to convert Rand to the dark side.

 

6. Lan reaches the Gap.

 

Land WILL NOT die. I think Rand will send help to Lan's troops and Nyneave will personally pull Lan's butt out of the fire. After a lifetime was wanting to die in the waste Lan will finally realize the through Nyn and possibly the baby she carrying that he has a reason to live.

[Terez]

New theory: The Caemyln way gate in in the wine pantry.

We saw the Caemlyn Waygate in TEOTW. It's in the New City, not in the palace.

[nolirion]

5 the whole Mierin thing . At first i Tought something of about Mierin being corrupted unwillingly by the DO but more i think about it more i found it fishy.

Then their is What Shadar said to Greandal about Rand "This opportunity has been given to another" although if i would be pleased if rand give one tough about rescuing the "Lanfear" he would be wise to put an A'dam around her neck before trying something heroic .

I mean Lanfear had affirmed she could enter the dream of Rand even with the ward he set , that with her being all " i-want-to-make-him-suffer"

[aynatal2000]

1. Graendal's in trouble.

2. Perrin realises Noam chose to become a wolf.

3. Olver's seems to be a budding sociopath, and Caemlyn is invaded by Shadowspawn. Talmanes fears the loss of the Dragons.

4. Creepy Red Aiel Dudes.

5. Rand dreams of Cyndane.

6. Lan reaches the Gap.

 

Graendal is going to rebel against her punishments... and again, unwittingly help the light.

Perrin is the Wolf Lord of the prophecy that is in the epilogue... and also the Fallen Blacksmith.After all the books where he agonized over his choices(wolf/man/Faille) he's gonna freakin die?

Olver is gonna be what he is - reincarnation of Birgitte's lover; like he said it's time to fight!Remember that Rand negotiated for a percentage of the Dragons to be theirs... and I bet they are not in the city.Is it just me or do you think that Rand wanted them to go there, the Shadowspawn? So he could have as many of them in one place to die and destroy the waygate.He seems to be draawing all of his allies( Perrin,Mat,Egwene etc.) out of their home turf so that the Shadow can't get them.

They are the Shara males that supposedly die in their twenties and the Aiel male channelers that have gone into the blight... and do you think they may be cannabils?

Cyndane dream is a stone trap - but I think he's not gonna fall for it.They want him to follow where she went I think that is a very bad mistake on Moridin's part.

Lan is king and a badass... but his wife rules! I think he makes it.That is why it is so important for the borderlanders to go back and protect their kingdoms- they will come in contact with Lan and his band.

 

It's all supposition I know but that's half the fun. One last thing you know it is Avi that is going to find the song.She wants to change the purpose of the Aiel before it is too late.

[Muad Cheade]

1). Graendal is apparently going to receive the same punishment Moghedien and Mesaana did. She is still useful to the Shadow however.

 

2). Apparently, Perrin has finally finished the blacksmith's puzzle that is being a wolfbrother. It is interesting that of the three we know, each has found his own separate, unique balance (I always wondered why Elyas was never mentioned as being in the Wolf Dream).

 

3). I really don't think Olver is a sociopath. He just lost something very dear to him and he wants to have vengeance. I did find it interesting that he won at a game though to be un-winnable. An effect of Mat's trip perhaps?

 

4). Those men are very interesting. I think there are three possible explanations:

a). They're Sharaman. Being so near to the Aiel and having contact with them over the years could explain for similar clothing patterns and weapons(the red veil and the short spears) although that could be a red herring.

b). They're Aiel channelers, although their number would be limited to the channelers sent in the past couple centuries. Also, why would they need to file their teeth and why would Aiel channelers still use their spears and knives to kill instead of the Power? There is also the matter of them having dark eyes, a non-Aiel characteristic.

c). They're some sort of new construct or shadowspawn. I find this to be the least likely.

 

5). This puzzled me very much. How could Mierin/Lanfear/Cyndane enter Rand's dreams? They had been warded since TSR and now with the memories of LTT, I would think they'd be even more difficult to breach.

 

6). Lan is the true king. It seems as if he is riding to his death however. 12,000 against atleast 150,000, with really no tactical advantage is near suicide. Tai'shar Malkier.

[nolirion]

1

 

5). This puzzled me very much. How could Mierin/Lanfear/Cyndane enter Rand's dreams? They had been warded since TSR and now with the memories of LTT, I would think they'd be even more difficult to breach.

 

 

She can , she said it back to when Rand had Asmodean under control , it is difficult but she can

[Crossroad]

1. Graendal's in trouble.

Seems like a fitting end but I don't think so. First impressions is that Shaidar Haran just going to scare the crap out of her then send her on another Mission

 

2. Perrin realises Noam chose to become a wolf.

Its a realization he should have had way back.

 

3. Olver's seems to be a budding sociopath, and Caemlyn is invaded by Shadowspawn. Talmanes fears the loss of the Dragons.

Another cliff hanger for us to pour over for the next 12 mths. Is that where Alana is.

 

4. Creepy Red Aiel Dudes.

I immediately thought about the many Aiel Males channelers that went to the Blight. Their must be millions of these shadowpawn Aiels just waiting for this day to come the LB.

 

5. Rand dreams of Cyndane.

Interesting Rand has always been able shield his dreams. What I believe he may have seen is her sole which is being held by Mordin.

 

6. Lan reaches the Gap.

 

I'm trying to work out why he hasn't come across any Trolloc while heading to Tarwin Gap. All along the bordlands there have been Trolloc movements and attacks maybe the timeline hasn't caught up with him

[abremms]

5. Rand dreams of Cyndane.

 

I found this very interesting, I don't think she can be redeemed, not fully. I do, however think that if she is reaching out to Rand, she may be angry enough with the DO/desperate to escape enough that she would help Rand.

 

I have no evidence to support this, and its probably just a wild guess, but what if she gives Rand the last hint he needs to seal up the bore for permanents? she was the one who made the bore in the first place, after all. maybe she knows something about it that LTT never learned. It is very likely still a trap, but she made the bore surely she will have some small role in closing it, intentional or otherwise?

[Sharaman]

For discussion of the Epilogue specifically. So, in line...

 

1. Graendal's in trouble.

2. Perrin realises Noam chose to become a wolf.

3. Olver's seems to be a budding sociopath, and Caemlyn is invaded by Shadowspawn. Talmanes fears the loss of the Dragons.

4. Creepy Red Aiel Dudes.

5. Rand dreams of Cyndane.

6. Lan reaches the Gap.

 

Just chucking in my reactions

1. She'll survive Shaidar's punishment. May not even be mind-trapped.

2. Big character development point for Perrin

3. Is Mat out of the ToG (Finnland scrambles time)? Does this coincide with Feild of Merrilor? (Isn't FoM rather earlier than Rand had originally planned to make it happen? Odd that Elayne would come with a Carhein Shen al Calhar contingent and no Talmanes. Where the hell is Daerid - has he even got out of Murandy? Is he planning an elaborate double-cross?)

4. Funny details - not 100% that they are Aiel. Could be somebody pulling the LoC switcheroo. otoh - blank in the blight

5. Rand=Sucker?

6. Tai'shar Malkier but when will Nyn get preggers or is she keeping it under her braid?

[JDJ]

5. Rand dreams of Cyndane.

 

I found this very interesting, I don't think she can be redeemed, not fully. I do, however think that if she is reaching out to Rand, she may be angry enough with the DO/desperate to escape enough that she would help Rand.

 

I have no evidence to support this, and its probably just a wild guess, but what if she gives Rand the last hint he needs to seal up the bore for permanents? she was the one who made the bore in the first place, after all. maybe she knows something about it that LTT never learned. It is very likely still a trap, but she made the bore surely she will have some small role in closing it, intentional or otherwise?

 

I think Rand will rescue her, but what I am not sure of is if he can somehow do it by gaining the mindtrap she has or if he truly frees her. I also think Rand will use her, or she will give him information (willingly offered or forced out), and would not be surprised that her knowledge is the key to him defeating the DO - I am not sure if Rand intends to kill the DO or to just seal the bore in a way if can never be opened again.

 

Furthermore, I think she will be the 3rd person using Callandor - again not sure if this will be willingly on her part or still mindtrapped controlled by Rand.

[nolirion]

5. Rand dreams of Cyndane.

 

I found this very interesting, I don't think she can be redeemed, not fully. I do, however think that if she is reaching out to Rand, she may be angry enough with the DO/desperate to escape enough that she would help Rand.

 

I have no evidence to support this, and its probably just a wild guess, but what if she gives Rand the last hint he needs to seal up the bore for permanents? she was the one who made the bore in the first place, after all. maybe she knows something about it that LTT never learned. It is very likely still a trap, but she made the bore surely she will have some small role in closing it, intentional or otherwise?

 

I think Rand will rescue her, but what I am not sure of is if he can somehow do it by gaining the mindtrap she has or if he truly frees her. I also think Rand will use her, or she will give him information (willingly offered or forced out), and would not be surprised that her knowledge is the key to him defeating the DO - I am not sure if Rand intends to kill the DO or to just seal the bore in a way if can never be opened again.

 

Furthermore, I think she will be the 3rd person using Callandor - again not sure if this will be willingly on her part or still mindtrapped controlled by Rand.

That optimistic , so far we have seen nothing that will show Lanfear want redemption

[TheTuninator]

I don't think Olver's a sociopath, he's just a kid whose view of the world is not yet matured.

As far as the Shadowspawn invasion of Caemlyn, now that is a Very Bad Thing. I seriously hope Talmanes somehow manages to pull off a ridiculous maneuver and at least get the dragons and get away. But that's not gonna end well.

 

I also don't think Lan is going to die, or at the very least he won't die without reinforcements. New Jesus-Rand promised Nynaeve that he would send Lan help, and I don't see Rand reneging on that. We also do not see Nyaeve for nearly the entire second half of the book, if I recall correctly. This makes me rather suspicious as to where she has gone and what she might be doing.

[firstfishman]

#3 Shadowspawn will invade Camalyn and Olver will end up trying to fight which ends up getting him killed. Mat will be so anguished by this, he will go to Fortuona and demand control of the Seanchan armies and will be told, "as Prince of Ravens, you already have control of the ever victorious army" and he will crush the hoards of trollocs in the borderlands.

[nolirion]

I don't think Olver's a sociopath, he's just a kid whose view of the world is not yet matured.

As far as the Shadowspawn invasion of Caemlyn, now that is a Very Bad Thing. I seriously hope Talmanes somehow manages to pull off a ridiculous maneuver and at least get the dragons and get away. But that's not gonna end well.

 

I also don't think Lan is going to die, or at the very least he won't die without reinforcements. New Jesus-Rand promised Nynaeve that he would send Lan help, and I don't see Rand reneging on that. We also do not see Nyaeve for nearly the entire second half of the book, if I recall correctly. This makes me rather suspicious as to where she has gone and what she might be doing.

Mat's is going to kick so wild Shadow spawn ass's

[dwn]

The invasion of Caemlyn will suck, but I expect Talmanes and whatever Queen's Guards remain will hold their own. Mat noted how defensible the palace was, and the size of the waygate limits how fast the shadowspawn can flood into the city.

 

-- dwn

[Fel]

For 4: Red Faced Aiel

 

With the use of the Portal Stones to move the Shadowspawn and Grandael's thoughts on how she could flee to live in one of the Portal Stones worlds, was anyone else wondering if the Shadow's forces are going to be pulled from alternate realities? The red faced Aiel could be Aiel from alternate reality worlds. They *could* be Sharan, but alternate reality sourcing of armies would also help explain where the seemingly endless shadowspawn are being born and bred...

[nolirion]

For 4: Red Faced Aiel

 

With the use of the Portal Stones to move the Shadowspawn and Grandael's thoughts on how she could flee to live in one of the Portal Stones worlds, was anyone else wondering if the Shadow's forces are going to be pulled from alternate realities? The red faced Aiel could be Aiel from alternate reality worlds. They *could* be Sharan, but alternate reality sourcing of armies would also help explain where the seemingly endless shadowspawn are being born and bred...

Nope shadowspawn where made to be numerous and easy to bred

[JohnnyBeGood]

For 4: Red Faced Aiel

 

With the use of the Portal Stones to move the Shadowspawn and Grandael's thoughts on how she could flee to live in one of the Portal Stones worlds, was anyone else wondering if the Shadow's forces are going to be pulled from alternate realities? The red faced Aiel could be Aiel from alternate reality worlds. They *could* be Sharan, but alternate reality sourcing of armies would also help explain where the seemingly endless shadowspawn are being born and bred...

 

I don´t think Shadowspawn can use the Portal Stones to switch worlds. Only change places inside one World. If they can switch Worlds, then i don´t think that they can be drawn from more than one World. If they could get more i believe the Light would either have no chance at all or would do the same.

[Aiyen kin Leary]

Remember though, BS said that the DO has orders of magnitude more trollocs than would fit in the Blight. Either they're stationed somewhere else in the world (and where else is hundreds of times bigger than the Blight-even ruling the Isle of Madmen wouldn't really help much) or they're in other worlds.