Nakomi

[Byzantine279]

To the person who mentioned compulsion:

 

Compulsion itself does not affect a lifespan, rather what Verin was compulsing them to do might end up getting them killed later, even though the weave itself caused no direct harm.

[Rand Skywalker]

My first instinct was Jenn Aiel, however I think it's Rand. I'm not sure if he's been mentioned before, only skimmed the previous pages.

 

There's a bit when he first returns to min an says something like he had to help, or has to help a Friend. (don't have my copy with me at the moment). Now I thought he was refering to Rodal, or maybe Lan. Perhaps however he meant Avi.

 

This is one of the most interesting speculations I've read yet. I guess he could mask the bond.

[metaphor]

I thought she was a ghost, or an apparition conjured up by some ter angreal or weave, or something connected to Tel aran riod. Maybe an aes Sedai of the age of legends, or a Jenn, or an Aiel who became Aes Sedai. Appearing out of nowhere, then disappearing suddenly? Sounds like a ghost.

 

From what happened in the columns, I believe that their final purpose was guide Aviendah. After she had seen the future she touched the columns, and they seemed dead.

The Aes Sedai and the Jenn made the columns so that the Aiel would survive and remember who they were. They had let the Aiel remember their past and keep united as a people, but that is pointless now that Rand has revealed the secret. But the Aiel aren't safe et. They have to survive the passing of an age, the chaos and the change it will bring. And Aviendah will be the one to guide them and save them.

The columns, and the apparition, served to let Aviendah understand what she must do, and what needs to be done.

 

Unless the ter'angreal was tampered with by Nakomi, causing what Avi saw to be a "false future" unless she follows Nakomi's advice... Though, I think it's more likely that what Avi saw is a VERY likely possibility of the future unless Avi can convince the Aiel not to be so segregatory.

 

The other way around. What I meant is that those who made the columns made them to show the future to Aviendha, and also prepared Nakomi to talk to her.

[Caedn of the Taardad]

To the person who mentioned compulsion:

 

Compulsion itself does not affect a lifespan, rather what Verin was compulsing them to do might end up getting them killed later, even though the weave itself caused no direct harm.

 

 

Truth, that is possible. Perhaps I am looking at it too literally... Anyone know if this was discussed and concluded? Either way, the definite lack of any mention of Avi in the pov of her daughter does raise some questions.

 

Now that I'm at home with my resources, here's the quote from tPoD prologue:

 

'"Nothing that will harm you," Verin told her reassuringly. The woman might die inside

the year, or in ten, as a result of this, but the weave itself would not harm her. "I promise

you, this is safe enough to use on an infant." Of course, that depended on what you did

with it'

[Terez]

And Terez, whoa, step down. 20 years of people doing this.

Wat?

[Caius Callus]

(Stopped reading back at about page 6, so usual disclaimer applies.)

 

Back in The Great Hunt Jordan spent a lot of time and effort introducing Mirror Worlds.

Given the development of WoT since about book #3, I'd say Checkov's Gun no longer applies to a bunch of the stuff briefly introduced. Where are all the Grey Men gone, for example? Some apparently made a brief appearance in books 5 and/or 6.

There is a good reason why this series is known to be full of detailed descriptions of rather insignificant details...

 

The Jenn Aiel are gone, gone, gone. Are you people supposing there's a hidden enclave of Jenn Aiel living somewhere on Arrakis ... err.. in the Aiel Waste? For nearly two thousand years?

Portal world? Some omniscient pseudo-Aiel from a mirror/portal-world appears to slightly nudge Avi into accidentally altering the column-thingy? I what what you're smoking.

A darkfriend? Sitting around in the desert waiting for Avi to sow doubts in her head? Doubts she has expressed in thought at least once earlier in the series, IIRC.

Saying it's Verin is pretty much in the same vein as blaming Bela the Wonderhorse. Verin is/was neither omnipresent nor omniscient, no matter what. She was rather clever, but not this clever.

And even if Brandon Sanderson suddenly claims it's Verin (which he hasn't), I will consider it retcon.

 

My own opinion on the topic is that Nakomi is a Hallucination; Avi's own suppressed concerns manifest themselves. Which is why she accepts "Nakomi" as presented.

Btw, what would "nakomi" mean in the "old tongue"? I think the answer to that might prove or disprove my point. Unfortunately, my only other foreign language is Klingon.

[knutz]

It wouldn't surprise me at all that it was Verin. Her presence was there in parts of the book. Not only is there a letter given to Tiana, but in one of Perrin's scenes, Galad?, a character gets a mysterious letter. Verin's part isn't done quite yet, I think

For some reason, I got the feeling that she was the last of the Jenn Aiel

its definitely not out of the realm of possibility. *shrugs*

 

I think so too, but a vision that visits women determined to find wisdom in Rhuideen, not a live one.

[Arc]

I haven't read all treats on this discussion, so I don't know if any one already mentioned it, but when I read the chapter for the first time, the first thing that sprung to my mind was that of Nakomi being Tigraine/Shaiel, a.k.a. Rands Mother.

Sure it might sound ridiculous, but i don't think it's more far fetched then she being a forsaken or even Verin.

[Sharaman]

I haven't read all treats on this discussion, so I don't know if any one already mentioned it, but when I read the chapter for the first time, the first thing that sprung to my mind was that of Nakomi being Tigraine/Shaiel, a.k.a. Rands Mother.

Sure it might sound ridiculous, but i don't think it's more far fetched then she being a forsaken or even Verin.

It is because Rand's mother is dead.

[WhiskyJack]

I haven't read all treats on this discussion, so I don't know if any one already mentioned it, but when I read the chapter for the first time, the first thing that sprung to my mind was that of Nakomi being Tigraine/Shaiel, a.k.a. Rands Mother.

Sure it might sound ridiculous, but i don't think it's more far fetched then she being a forsaken or even Verin.

 

Gobi is a known cross dresser. Possibilities are endless.

[kes]

I don't think it is a Darkfriend - why would a DF lead Aviendha down that path? To what purpose? It dovetails so nicely with what Avi sees in the ter'angreal that I can't believe it isn't connected.

 

Same problem with it being Amys - she didn't know that Avi would be seeing the future. But, in this case, Amys at least is concerned with what the future of the Aiel will be, so it is at least sorta believable. But Amys could have posed those questions in her own form and they would have had the same impact - not sure if the deception is really needed.

 

And Verin? I think Verin has become the deus ex machina of all mysterious happenings at this point, so I refuse to believe it. Verin doesn't care about the Aiel that much and focussed pretty much on the Black Ajah, but now she is an expert on the Aiel too?

 

 

And the visit was definitely in TAR - too many weird happenings during the visit for it not to have been. Maybe a Mirror World, but is there really a Mirror World that has different laws of physics for cooking but has people who are similar to the Aiel? Maybe, but that just seems silly.

[Bob T Dwarf]

And the visit was definitely in TAR - too many weird happenings during the visit for it not to have been. Maybe a Mirror World, but is there really a Mirror World that has different laws of physics for cooking but has people who are similar to the Aiel? Maybe, but that just seems silly.

 

So she had a microwave oven. Who wouldn't like a little Lean Cuisine in the desert?

 

A microwave without containing walls explains entirely why there was "something strange" about those kids of Avi's that Min saw. In addition to constantly holding One Power, they probably glow in the dark, too. Have the ability to swing from trees by their prehensile tails. ...

 

Avi's either lucky or unlucky that Nokomi only prepared one meal, depending on how you feel about kids with a a third eye in the back of the head.

 

Yes, I AM feeling entirely too silly, why do you ask?

[dahuo]

Hello, first post :) This was my favorite part of the book, it really opened my eyes for the first time to questions I feel I should have thought about earlier in regards to the Aeil.

 

So I see a lot of Tel'aran'rhiod, Verin/WO (basically a real person or channeler), or hallucination.

 

What about Nakomi being a part of a simple dream? Aviendha's subconscious examining her and her people's place in the world. With nearly all the Aiel so focused on meeting their greatest toh, what happens afterwards? It's been repeatedly stated once toh is met it is as if it never happened. So they meet their toh, then what? Nakomi seems like a perfect expression of that line of questioning or wondering.

 

Plus 3 points:

1. Aviendha is not a dreamer and dreamers can recognize normal dreams from prophetic or Tel'aran'rhiod as we've seen in Egewene's POV's. The way she closes her eyes to rest them a moment while cooking dinner, why is it so far fetched she'd just drifted into a light sleep and created a personality to question herself (although I suppose you could call that a hallucination, like Tam in EOTW)? Also, normal dreams have been described that bear no further significance other than to further explore a character's psyche. Also, has anyone that we have seen been pulled from a dream INTO Tel'aran'rhiod (yeah we've seen pulled out of...)?

 

2. Where is Aviendha's home now? Where, deep down, would she consider home? Is it the wetlands that the Aiel always believed they are destined to return to? Is it the waste, where she spent the vast majority of her life? Do the Aiel return to the waist after fulfilling their toh?

 

3. Food that specifically reminds her of her mother. The near acceptance of the good nature of the unknown guest that will not give any information other than a first name and vague description of where she hails from. The modern Aiel are not exactly known for there tolerance (or at least easy relaxed acceptance) of others (even other Aiel).

 

 

But I dunno, the Verin idea has quite a bit of merit, plus just because she "told" Matt she couldn't go anywhere doesn't mean she was telling the truth ;) So the time-frame fits. Nothing she said seems like it would betray the Dark One, so she wouldn't have to worry about doing this right after her "special tea" (heck she may have gone before even creating the letters with the intent to betray the dark one). Also, she is all about the tea and she rambles a bit (which not many characters comment much on the rambling even if many like tea, I guess I just associated tea more with Verin than anyone else since TGS). I also could see a light compulsion in effect creating the "dreamlike" quality of the meeting, creating no memory of seeing Nakomi before, after, and possibly "erasing" time to allow that food cooked super fast, extra fuel added to the fire, no recollection of how they parted beyond a simple vanish, or that she sensed the person she just met could channel.

 

A dreamer could easily just invade her dream (if she in fact fell asleep) and it would have nothing to do with Tel'aran'rhiod to create the same dreamlike effect. So it seems plausible it could be Amys or another WO. The only problem I see is that the dreamers express the difficulty involved in "controlling" an individual's personal dream to create that kind of effect.

 

The main question with Verin is motive, IMO.... but then Verin did mention to Perrin in the Two Rivers she was interested in learning more of the Aiel (after seeing the company he kept), she also want's to do good in the world which I think we have found sufficient evidence for.

 

As for Rand's mother theories..... ummm, she was Andoran (a princess to to be exact, if I remember correctly).... I am pretty sure Aviendha wouldn't confuse a "wetlander" in normal Aiel garb... so ummm, yeah other than the previously stated she was found dead next to an infant Rand.... why would it would be her?

 

Well thanks for listening (reading?), this was just my initial thought to that chapter and subsequently the responses in this thread.

[anthonypero]

The oddities in the scene:

- Nakomi approaches without being heard, and then makes a noise to alert Aviendha of her presence

- Aviendha is naturally suspicious, but when Nakomi says "I promise that I mean you no harm, child," Aviendha immediately feels foolish and rationalizes the first point

- Nakomi is travelling alone

- Magically appearing coals

- "I am far from my roof, yet not far at all. Perhaps it is far from me. I cannot answer your question, for it is not my place to give this truth."

- Disappears without a trace, and her pack and supplies disappear when Aviendha goes to look for her

 

Plausible explanations (in my not-so-humble opinion)

- Nakomi approaches without being heard (T'A'R, channeler -> eavesdropping ward, portal stone)

- Aviendha is naturally suspicious, but when Nakomi says "I promise that I mean you no harm, child," Aviendha immediately feels foolish and rationalizes the first point (T'A'R, channeler -> compulsion)

- Nakomi is travelling alone (T'A'R, channeler -> traveled there, portal stone, time travel)

- Magically appearing coals (T'A'R)

- "I am far from my roof, yet not far at all. Perhaps it is far from me. I cannot answer your question, for it is not my place to give this truth." (Portal stone, T'A'R, time traveler)

- Disappears without a trace, and her pack and supplies disappear when Aviendha goes to look for her (T'A'R, remote chance of portal stone, but that would require leaving and coming back behind Avi)

 

I'm ignoring the possibility of Nakomi just being a hallucination because her beliefs contract Aviendha's, and it doesn't make sense for Aviendha's subconscious to challenge her in this way.

 

So I'm calling it as T'A'R, or a dreamwalker who entered Aviendha's dream entirely. Either Moridin or Cyndane are likely possibilities. Moridin because it's subtle enough to be his handiwork, and Cyndane because we see her messing with someone else's dreams in the same book...and naturally, if it's Cyndane then Moridin is pulling the strings anyway.

Another reason I call it as T'A'R, besides the fact that it is the only thing that can explain every oddity, is the fact this book is all about T'A'R and alternate realities, more than any before. We had the wolf dream, Slayer entering T'A'R in the flesh, Egwene's dreamwalker adventures, Nynaeve taking her testing, Avi in the pillars, the Tower of Ghenjei, and Lanfear invading Rand's dreams. It fits.

I'd rule out Cyndane for fairly obvious reasons. Avi likely wouldn't survive.

Edit: Another point if it is TAR or somebody entering Avi's dream, then Nakomi is a very powerful dreamwalker.

Avi is not a dreamer. While she could enter TAR naturally while sleeping, that would be momentary. It would take a good dreamer to drag her into TAR and keep here there without a ter'angreal.

Ditto, it would take a special Talent to find her dreams, break into her dreams and turn them around in this fashion.

Moridin can do this. He does it for fun. Moggy could do this (Cyndane too) - in fact she has, to Egwene.

Egwene herself is imprisoned and has other things on her mind.

I don't think the Aiel DW would ever try, because they're frankly scared of it - Melaine got caught in Bael's dreams once and they warned Egwene against being in Gawyn's dreams. I don't think Verin has the ability to do this.

 

Not to mention that the Aiel Dreamwalkers told Egwene it was evil to drag someone into T'A'R. If this is TAR, then it's a Forsaken. Period. I don' think it's TAR

[Sharaman]

Do the Aiel return to the waist after fulfilling their toh?

 

That sounds really kinky. Aiel 101. Fulfil your toe and return to your waist.

 

 

But I dunno, the Verin idea has quite a bit of merit, plus just because she "told" Matt she couldn't go anywhere doesn't mean she was telling the truth ;) So the time-frame fits. Nothing she said seems like it would betray the Dark One, so she wouldn't have to worry about doing this right after her "special tea" (heck she may have gone before even creating the letters with the intent to betray the dark one). Also, she is all about the tea and she rambles a bit (which not many characters comment much on the rambling even if many like tea, I guess I just associated tea more with Verin than anyone else since TGS). I also could see a light compulsion in effect creating the "dreamlike" quality of the meeting, creating no memory of seeing Nakomi before, after, and possibly "erasing" time to allow that food cooked super fast, extra fuel added to the fire, no recollection of how they parted beyond a simple vanish, or that she sensed the person she just met could channel.

 

If it's Verin, it's after she met Mat.

 

As for Rand's mother theories..... ummm, she was Andoran (a princess to to be exact, if I remember correctly).... I am pretty sure Aviendha wouldn't confuse a "wetlander" in normal Aiel garb... so ummm, yeah other than the previously stated she was found dead next to an infant Rand.... why would it would be her?

1/2 correct.

Andoran princess who became a Maiden of the Spear.

She was Aiel.

She is also dead.

[Bob T Dwarf]

 

1/2 correct.

Andoran princess who became a Maiden of the Spear.

She was Aiel.

She is also dead.

 

There are no beginnings nor endings in the Wheel of Time.

 

Tigraine will turn up any day now. Everybody else who is dead has, why not her? Evil Overlords. Wolves. People dead for a thousand years.

 

It's adopted Aiel discrimination if she doesn't. There will be a huge Civil Rights case.

 

FREE THE INDIANAPOLIS 500 ... err Tigraine!

[Caius Callus]

Maybe Nakomi was really Bela

[Bob T Dwarf]

Maybe Nakomi was really Bela

 

Very possible. Bela can do anything. She can even be two places at once. Talk about AWESOME!

[Caius Callus]

Very possible. Bela can do anything. She can even be two places at once. Talk about AWESOME!

It was Bela in TR, infiltrating Avi's dream. Of course, Avi woke up before "Nakomi" (meaning "good horse" in the OT) could tell Avi to be nicer to horsies.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Very possible. Bela can do anything. She can even be two places at once. Talk about AWESOME!

It was Bela in TR, infiltrating Avi's dream. Of course, Avi woke up before "Nakomi" (meaning "good horse" in the OT) could tell Avi to be nicer to horsies.

 

Very true. Aviendha is bigoted against horsies, and she does need to be educated about their good qualities.

 

Wait - other than being slightly smarter than turkeys and sheep, do horsies have good qualities?

[PatsNats28]

I like the Avi's dream/hallucination thing, that actually sounds most logical.

[metaphor]

Can't be a drakfriend. The advice was basically on how to help the Aiel.

Can't be a wise one. They still have trouble accepting change, and in any case they would have discussed it at the camp.

Could possibly be Verin.She knows stuff and seems to be pretty wise. But I doubt Verin could have approached and left Aviendha without being noticed.

There is another problem with Verin.

Nakomi appeared to Aviendha and talked with her about the future of the Aiel and the importance of changing, just before Aviendha went to the columns where she saw the future of the Aiel and the dire consequences of not changing ways. The 2 things are clearly related.

Verin didn't have the knowledge and ability to modify the columns, or to know how to modify the columns. Most likely nobody alive did. It was built after the breaking, and as we've seen ter'angreal are pretty much a mistery to everyone except the ones who built it.

And Aviendha, but the columns were far to powerful for her to even begin to grasp their working.

 

If someone put the vision of the future there, it was the ones who did it. And they also planned for Nakomi to appear. To guide Aviendha.

 

After she came out the second time she noticed that the columns felt dead. Their role is over. Their final purpose then was to let Aviendha see the future.

Why? SO that she could guide the Aiel in the 4th age, and save them

 

As for Nakomi, I like to think that she was part of Ruihedan. Maybe a construct of power, a manifestation of the consciousness of the Jenn, the spirit of those who built Ruhidean, and when Rand and Asmo destroyed it, they freed her, and she's been wandering the desert waiting for Aviendha.

[knutz]

Can't be a drakfriend. The advice was basically on how to help the Aiel.

Can't be a wise one. They still have trouble accepting change, and in any case they would have discussed it at the camp.

Could possibly be Verin.She knows stuff and seems to be pretty wise. But I doubt Verin could have approached and left Aviendha without being noticed.

There is another problem with Verin.

Nakomi appeared to Aviendha and talked with her about the future of the Aiel and the importance of changing, just before Aviendha went to the columns where she saw the future of the Aiel and the dire consequences of not changing ways. The 2 things are clearly related.

Verin didn't have the knowledge and ability to modify the columns, or to know how to modify the columns. Most likely nobody alive did. It was built after the breaking, and as we've seen ter'angreal are pretty much a mistery to everyone except the ones who built it.

And Aviendha, but the columns were far to powerful for her to even begin to grasp their working.

 

If someone put the vision of the future there, it was the ones who did it. And they also planned for Nakomi to appear. To guide Aviendha.

 

After she came out the second time she noticed that the columns felt dead. Their role is over. Their final purpose then was to let Aviendha see the future.

Why? SO that she could guide the Aiel in the 4th age, and save them

 

As for Nakomi, I like to think that she was part of Ruihedan. Maybe a construct of power, a manifestation of the consciousness of the Jenn, the spirit of those who built Ruhidean, and when Rand and Asmo destroyed it, they freed her, and she's been wandering the desert waiting for Aviendha.

 

I don't think they're dead - just dead for Aviendha.

They still need to work so Raen can learn the songs.

[Sharaman]

Very possible. Bela can do anything. She can even be two places at once. Talk about AWESOME!

It was Bela in TR, infiltrating Avi's dream. Of course, Avi woke up before "Nakomi" (meaning "good horse" in the OT) could tell Avi to be nicer to horsies.

 

Very true. Aviendha is bigoted against horsies, and she does need to be educated about their good qualities.

 

Wait - other than being slightly smarter than turkeys and sheep, do horsies have good qualities?

High quality manure production factories. Decent dog food.

[dahuo]

Very possible. Bela can do anything. She can even be two places at once. Talk about AWESOME!

It was Bela in TR, infiltrating Avi's dream. Of course, Avi woke up before "Nakomi" (meaning "good horse" in the OT) could tell Avi to be nicer to horsies.

 

haha OF COURSE it was Bela all along....

 

Tigrane was "allowed" to be a maiden, she wasn't born with the features of an Aiel... I always got the impression she looked more like Morgase than Elayne did... being her direct cousin... but in any case, Rand was always compared to looking Aiel (obviously from his father's side, since he was the Aiel bloodline)... Tigarane had to work harder to be accepted as Aiel, not due to dedication, but it seemed more about she didn't "look" Aiel... (remember the Aiel said he looked like Aiel so he had the right to enter Ruidhien despite his upbringing...)

 

Not to mention that the Aiel Dreamwalkers told Egwene it was evil to drag someone into T'A'R. If this is TAR, then it's a Forsaken. Period. I don' think it's TAR

 

Direct quote to PULL a sleeping person into Tel'aran'rhiod??? One forsaken has claimed and seems to seemingly have proven she can ENTER, even an warded dream, while another dreamwalker can explicitly ENTER another's dream unknown to the dreamer.... but to pull a person into Tel'aran'rhiod and not OUT of....

where is this stated?

 

 

As for Rand's mother theories..... ummm, she was Andoran (a princess to to be exact, if I remember correctly).... I am pretty sure Aviendha wouldn't confuse a "wetlander" in normal Aiel garb... so ummm, yeah other than the previously stated she was found dead next to an infant Rand.... why would it would be her?

 

1/2 correct.

Andoran princess who became a Maiden of the Spear.

She was Aiel.

She is also dead.

 

I'm a physiological 20 years old, I moved away from my homeland to a people I know little about.... I spend 10 years proving myself then wedding a man from there. I then vanish and return 20 years later at the age of 40ish.... I left for a while but, "I'm meeting my potential daughter in law that would have no idea of what my neice looks like even though they are first sisters..."

 

this makes perfect sense..... Yes that means to be sarcastic ;)

 

@sharamon

 

this was the biggest hiccup to me.... RJ was somewhat linear in his presentation.... the absolute suspension of time messed me up with TOM... it made sense in knowing that this is the middle of a "single story".... still makes it tough on some points...

As for Rand's mother theories..... ummm, she was Andoran (a princess to to be exact, if I remember correctly).... I am pretty sure Aviendha wouldn't confuse a "wetlander" in normal Aiel garb... so ummm, yeah other than the previously stated she was found dead next to an infant Rand.... why would it would be her?

 

1/2 correct.

Andoran princess who became a Maiden of the Spear.

She was Aiel.

She is also dead.