DEMANDRED'S ALTER EGO

[Caius Callus]

Demandred is someone very close to Mat.

[yoniy0]

Demandred is someone very close to Mat.

That's pretty much impossible. Mat hasn't met anyone new that I can think of since WH, discounting that mapmaker. If he is located near Mat, he has a low profile role.

[Caius Callus]

That's pretty much impossible. Mat hasn't met anyone new that I can think of since WH, discounting that mapmaker. If he is located near Mat, he has a low profile role.

Did you read who he reunited with in KoD?

I can't find the "spoiler" code...

[yoniy0]

Did you read who he reunited with in KoD?

I can't find the "spoiler" code...

I have, but 'reunited' doesn't cut it. RJ said we haven't seen him on-screen before CoT, so only new acquaintances are relevant.

[Jillain Sanche]

Why does Caius keep trying to give us a spoiler about Demandred in non-spoiler forum threads? Please, KNOCK IT OFF.

[Sharaman]

Why isn't Mat dead then? Given the efforts the shadow has put into killing him, I mean.

[didymos]

Did you read who he reunited with in KoD?

I can't find the "spoiler" code...

I have, but 'reunited' doesn't cut it. RJ said we haven't seen him on-screen before CoT, so only new acquaintances are relevant.

 

Brandon extended that to cover KoD as well:

 

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Powell's Books, Portland, OR 19 November 2009 - Matrimony Cauthon reporting

 

Someone asked for clarification about whether we had seen Mesaana's and Demandred's alter-egos on screen. Sanderson said that we had seen Mesaana's alter-ego on screen as of Knife of Dreams, but that we had not seen Demandred's alter-ego on screen as of Knife of Dreams. Sanderson would not elaborate on whether Demandred's alter-ego had been seen in The Gathering Storm—Sanderson didn't want to narrow down the suspects for us if Demandred really had appeared in The Gathering Storm.

[didymos]

Why isn't Mat dead then? Given the efforts the shadow has put into killing him, I mean.

 

He has plot-armor. Or a hidden coat of mithril mail.

[yoniy0]

Why does Caius keep trying to give us a spoiler about Demandred in non-spoiler forum threads? Please, KNOCK IT OFF.

Just so we're all clear, this board doesn't allow spoilers of ToM. Anything prior to that is fair game.

 

BTW if you want to say something that you fear someone might prefer not to know (assuming it's not a ToM spoiler, which as I said we do not allow here) just enclose it by [ spoiler ] and [ /spoiler ] tags.

[grump]

yoniy0

 

Sorry, I would have said so sooner, but had trouble getting on. I had just popped over from a spoiler board.

 

Thanks the grump

[TheNextMovement]

Mazrim Taim and Demandred bear a striking resemblance to one another. This is commented on a lot. But RJ has said in no uncertain terms that Taim is not Demandred. Here's my theory:

 

Demandred is Mazrim Taim's father.

 

No one ever specifies where, and in what time, the Forsaken are released from their prison when the seals are weakened. It's very likely that Demandred, along with a lot of the others, were released decades before, maybe even close to a century before EotW. With all the havoc we understand Ishy runs in the Third Age why isn't it likely that others were released, and fully, sometime before the events occur in the book? Moghedien remarks in tSR that she was 200 years old by the time of the drilling of the Bore. Channelers obviously stave off aging and death with an ability that allows them to live for hundreds upon hundreds of years. Demandred at the time of the books could have been out for quite a long time.

 

My theory is: Demandred figures the best way to leave a legacy and gather leaders around him that are loyal is to produce an heir to his legacy. A son. It was commented on that by Gentling male channelers and allowing them to die, they were breeding the inborn ability to channel out. Demandred, knowing that it takes two people with the spark inborn to produce a channeler, decided to find either a Black Sister, use Compulsion, or use Illusion, to produce a child with another channeler. The child being Mazrim Taim.

 

This is why Taim and Demandred look so similar. Now there's two things that can happen here. Taim is raising an army of Dreadlords who can channel Saidin for his father. Or, in proof that RJ doesn't paint things with a Black and White stroke, Taim is in league only for his own glory and power. It's commented on many times that Taim is only seeking glory for himself. Much akin to the former citizens of Aridhol, Taim could be in that gray area where he isn't a DF but doesn't serve the Light either.

 

I honestly think this is the easiest explanation as to why Taim and Demandred look so similar.

[WhiskyJack]

Mazrim Taim and Demandred bear a striking resemblance to one another. This is commented on a lot. But RJ has said in no uncertain terms that Taim is not Demandred. Here's my theory:

 

Demandred is Mazrim Taim's father.

 

No one ever specifies where, and in what time, the Forsaken are released from their prison when the seals are weakened. It's very likely that Demandred, along with a lot of the others, were released decades before, maybe even close to a century before EotW. With all the havoc we understand Ishy runs in the Third Age why isn't it likely that others were released, and fully, sometime before the events occur in the book? Moghedien remarks in tSR that she was 200 years old by the time of the drilling of the Bore. Channelers obviously stave off aging and death with an ability that allows them to live for hundreds upon hundreds of years. Demandred at the time of the books could have been out for quite a long time.

 

My theory is: Demandred figures the best way to leave a legacy and gather leaders around him that are loyal is to produce an heir to his legacy. A son. It was commented on that by Gentling male channelers and allowing them to die, they were breeding the inborn ability to channel out. Demandred, knowing that it takes two people with the spark inborn to produce a channeler, decided to find either a Black Sister, use Compulsion, or use Illusion, to produce a child with another channeler. The child being Mazrim Taim.

 

This is why Taim and Demandred look so similar. Now there's two things that can happen here. Taim is raising an army of Dreadlords who can channel Saidin for his father. Or, in proof that RJ doesn't paint things with a Black and White stroke, Taim is in league only for his own glory and power. It's commented on many times that Taim is only seeking glory for himself. Much akin to the former citizens of Aridhol, Taim could be in that gray area where he isn't a DF but doesn't serve the Light either.

 

I honestly think this is the easiest explanation as to why Taim and Demandred look so similar.

 

First book states that Aginor and Balthamel were first to come out, being trapped so close to surface.

 

P.S: It takes two channelers to produce one? Is this in books or some RJ interview?

[TheNextMovement]

It's not in an interview, but it's either in KoD or TGS. It's mentioned that the Aes Sedai, gentling and eventually allowing male channelers to die was slowly but surely culling the inborn spark out of the population.

 

Others are born at random, as is proof of Nynaeve and Egwene. But it's mentioned in one of the more recent books that the reason why the number of Aes Sedai is so little is because male channelers were rare, and Aes Sedai rarely ever had children.

[WhiskyJack]

It's not in an interview, but it's either in KoD or TGS. It's mentioned that the Aes Sedai, gentling and eventually allowing male channelers to die was slowly but surely culling the inborn spark out of the population.

 

Others are born at random, as is proof of Nynaeve and Egwene. But it's mentioned in one of the more recent books that the reason why the number of Aes Sedai is so little is because male channelers were rare, and Aes Sedai rarely ever had children.

 

 

Er....No where in book it implies that channelers can reproduce channelers. Even RJ has confirmed this. Culling had some effect on pattern itself which lead to less and less male channelers (or even strong female ones). So yes, it is ALL random.

[Thorum]

The ability to channel is genetical. Which does not mean it cannot skip generations, or come out suddenly, or ... But it does mean killing all males makes the gene rarer

 

What is not genetic, is the strength. That one's tied to the soul.

 

RJ said that somewhere in his blog.

[Rahien]

New to the site so sorry if this isn't the right protocol but I had a thought when doing a reread of the series and wanted to run it by you guys...

 

I seem to remember reading that RJ said that we've met Demandred's alter ego but haven't had a POV from him.

 

I'm not 100% sure which book it's in, think it's CoT but could be wrong, but Rand goes to visit the Black Tower to see Taim and is greeted by an Asha'man called Atal Mishraile. He's described in more detail than most Asha'man that we meet fleetingly and we haven't seen or heard of him since as far as I can recall.

 

I don't really know why but I immediately thought he could be Demandred...

Demandred said that he had an army ready, but he may not necessarily be in charge. Taim could be gathering his private army of Asha'man while being influenced by one who holds a high position in those ranks-Atal. There's even the possibility of Taim being under Compulsion. This would still link Atal to the Taim/Demandred argument but removes the issue of RJ telling us that Taim isn't Demandred.

 

He's described as having wavy, golden hair, bright blue eyes and a 'winning' smile. The smile stands out as Demi's described as never smiling...maybe a cover to throw people off?

 

The only problem is I'm not sure he would accept being second to someone again. He was always one step behind Lews Therin Telamon but definitely believes himself to be superior to anyone. Working under Taim might not be something he would choose to do as it seems he would want to be in the main position of power but then again this way he could still influence and manage a powerful army that no one else had access to while still remaining undercover.

 

This position would allow him to turn Telamon/Rand's Asha'man against him and prevail, finally coming out on top. The thought of using his enemy's creation to kill him would definitely be a tempting one.

 

So there it is. Atal Mishraile. One of Taim's private Asha'man, and maybe Demandred.

 

It's probably a completely ridiculous thought but just thought I'd throw it out there!

 

*Sorry if there are any spoilers in here from ToM, only just received my copy so have no idea if any of this has been taken further!

[moratcorlm]

Well, we've had it confirmed that "Demandred hasn't been in-guise in the books at least up to Knife of Dreams." Also there's the incident in the epilogue to KOD where Taim cracks Mishraile's skull for nearly revealing that other sisters have bonded Asha'man.

[Rahien]

"Also there's the incident in the epilogue to KOD where Taim cracks Mishraile's skull for nearly revealing that other sisters have bonded Asha'man."

 

I can see where that would be a bit of a problem! Completely forgot about that part. Oops.

 

Oh well..never mind! Thanks though :)