Discuss Prologue Through Chapter 5

[JakeBarnes]

I was super-impressed with Rand throughout this portion of the book. It felt kind of like the Rand in 'The Shadow Rising' when he was formulating his plan to go into the Waste and then plotting against the Forsaken, but at the same time this Rand is totally different.

 

This was by FAR my favorite Rand of the series, because he seemed to be maturing, but hadn't grown hard yet, so it was good to see the return to that Rand. Hopefully (leaving out knowledge of the rest of the book) we will get more POV's of people observing Rand throughout this book.

 

Also, I'm glad that we have Faile back with Perrin, because she always keeps him moving in the right direction. I wish there could have been a more tangible connection between them in this book though, like the thoughts/reactions we used to get that showed just how MUCH effect they have on the other's actions. They get to be my favorite story arc again.

[Orderofolde]

There are a lot of Wheel of Time Fans out there now hunting for TOM like Gollum after the One Ring. "We needs it. We has to have it. My Precious...book." Just a casual observation as I peruse Chapters 1-5.

[Orderofolde]

On a more serious note, I'm thinking Rand has managed to find the balance that he will need facing the Last Battle. Hard as Cuendillar, Flexible as a reed in the wind.

[Luckers]

Sorry, though I understand the frustration, we're not allowing any offers of money transactions for an early copy on Dragonmount.

[Sharaman]

Sorry, though I understand the frustration, we're not allowing any offers of money transactions for an early copy on Dragonmount.

 

I'm slightly confused about the staggered book release thing. The Orbit paperback edition of ToM was officially released in India on Monday 25th and available in major bookstores / airports etc. at the Indian price (Rs 695 = roughly US$16). I picked up my copy that evening. From comments on DM, it appears that the US release is not happening before Nov 2.

Any clues as to why this staggering delay?

I can understand an official launch / reading being delayed since that frequently happens but why the commercial releases?

[harininag]

Umm, Sharaman, not quite... I don't know where you live in India, but I'm in Bangalore and have been calling all bookstores I can find telephone numbers for, all week - noone has the book yet, and don't know when they will get them. Where did you get yours from?

 

I'm slightly confused about the staggered book release thing. The Orbit paperback edition of ToM was officially released in India on Monday 25th and available in major bookstores / airports etc. at the Indian price (Rs 695 = roughly US$16). I picked up my copy that evening. From comments on DM, it appears that the US release is not happening before Nov 2.

Any clues as to why this staggering delay?

I can understand an official launch / reading being delayed since that frequently happens but why the commercial releases?

[Sharaman]

Umm, Sharaman, not quite... I don't know where you live in India, but I'm in Bangalore and have been calling all bookstores I can find telephone numbers for, all week - noone has the book yet, and don't know when they will get them. Where did you get yours from?

 

I'm slightly confused about the staggered book release thing. The Orbit paperback edition of ToM was officially released in India on Monday 25th and available in major bookstores / airports etc. at the Indian price (Rs 695 = roughly US$16). I picked up my copy that evening. From comments on DM, it appears that the US release is not happening before Nov 2.

Any clues as to why this staggering delay?

I can understand an official launch / reading being delayed since that frequently happens but why the commercial releases?

 

Delhi, and I've also seen it in Mumbai.

[harininag]

Thanks for the update! Wish I'd known last week, would've asked someone to bring it in from Mumbai... still, if you read this today, could you tell me which bookstore chains carried it so I can check in Bangalore? Thanks - and happy reading -

 

"Delhi, and I've also seen it in Mumbai"

[Sharaman]

Thanks for the update! Wish I'd known last week, would've asked someone to bring it in from Mumbai... still, if you read this today, could you tell me which bookstore chains carried it so I can check in Bangalore? Thanks - and happy reading -

 

"Delhi, and I've also seen it in Mumbai"

I'd be surprised if Landmark doesn't have it. Didn't see it in any chains though., Several indy bookshops and at the Del-Bom airports.

[NetSlider]

I'm mid chapter 4 now (at work so can't listen to it) but I have to say that Egwene really pissed me off so far! Without knowing a complete history of the events that took place when LTT was trying to seal the prison (after all, the victors write the history, and female AS were victors of that conflict by default to some degree) she just says "NO!" off hand. How about listen to a man for a change?! I don't know what's he planing yet, but this arrogance is just driving me insane. And "handle Wise Ones"?! First, I want to see that happen, and second, maybe WS should hand AS?! At least they have some brains in their heads. God, I can't wait for Egwene ask them for help to handle Rand and their response to her. Maybe they can remind her that her precious WT is not the center of the universe and not a very good source of ideas in the first place!!!!!!!! :breathing heavily:

 

Well, thanks for letting me vent....I'm tired now....

[Aegnor]

I've only read up to Chapter 3 before I had to tear myself away and go back in to work. So my comments on Chapter 3 are as follows...

 

The 13 towers seem to me to clearly be the Forsaken. All but 6 fell, which matches with only Demandred, Graendal, Ishamael.2, Lanfear.2, Mesaana, and Moghedien still remaining. The Tower which starts to crumble but recovers and grows taller than all the others seems match up with Ishamel.2 (Moridin) dieing, coming back, and becoming Naeblis.

 

Also, it was great to see Rand and Egwene actually talking, but they didn't actually say much to each other. Why didn't she, oh...I don't know, mention to him that two of the Aes Sedai he has in his group are black Ajah (yeah Elza is dead, but Egwene doesn't know that). All he did was pop in and say "Hey I'm going to break the seals a month from now. You coming with?" They need to sit down and have at least an hour long conversation.

 

Now of course she is going off to oppose him in clearing away the rubble. Its like a repeat of three thousand years before...Arrgggh.

[Elend]

I loved this when I read it. In fact, I'm loving the entire book so far.

[ajfurst]

Granted I'm only half way through TOM and not going to say anything about post Ch 5, but chapter 3 is so much like both by the end of TGS became leaders in the real sense, but then their personal growth / standings suddenly diverge.

 

Egwene now Amyrlin over all becomes everything bad about Aes Sedai - ignore Rand's reasons, try to manipulate and control him, etc. Whilst Rand is calm, rationale and not condescending (a mere woman equivalent thought). And the Aes Sedai Shielding him and surrounding him with Warders. You can imagine the stink if Rand had Egwene Shielded for 'everyone's safety'. I hope it changes later in TOM, but Egwene is rapidly losing the respect gained for her character in TGS, whilst Rand in ch's 1 and 3 has stepped up to the plate. Rand sees them from a position of weakness, not with Asha'man and armies at his back as he wants their help, yet they (Egwene) still don't bloody get it. More and more I hope (I know vainly) that the 4th age channeling doesn't work, just to see all the AS crash back to earth, Egwene top of that list.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Granted I'm only half way through TOM and not going to say anything about post Ch 5, but chapter 3 is so much like both by the end of TGS became leaders in the real sense, but then their personal growth / standings suddenly diverge.

 

Egwene now Amyrlin over all becomes everything bad about Aes Sedai - ignore Rand's reasons, try to manipulate and control him, etc. Whilst Rand is calm, rationale and not condescending (a mere woman equivalent thought). And the Aes Sedai Shielding him and surrounding him with Warders. You can imagine the stink if Rand had Egwene Shielded for 'everyone's safety'. I hope it changes later in TOM, but Egwene is rapidly losing the respect gained for her character in TGS, whilst Rand in ch's 1 and 3 has stepped up to the plate. Rand sees them from a position of weakness, not with Asha'man and armies at his back as he wants their help, yet they (Egwene) still don't bloody get it. More and more I hope (I know vainly) that the 4th age channeling doesn't work, just to see all the AS crash back to earth, Egwene top of that list.

 

Just a random thought -

 

Does shielding Rand from the One Power have any affect on his ability to access the True Power?

 

I suspect not, and if Rand really ever feels a need to put the fox among the pigeons, doing something with True Power while they have him shielded just might do it.

[jemron]

Let's talk more about Moridin/Ishamael and less about the Amyrlin's Anger (Ch. 3).

 

That scene where he showed the dark prophecy to Graendal!!! Why has nobody discussed this yet?!

 

Also, why could Ishamael "relate to" Rand? What exactly did happen to him back in the AoL that caused him to become the "Betrayer of Hope?"

 

I think Ishamael's past is going to be a big important part of the end.

[Gor]

Let's talk more about Moridin/Ishamael and less about the Amyrlin's Anger (Ch. 3).

 

That scene where he showed the dark prophecy to Graendal!!! Why has nobody discussed this yet?!

 

Also, why could Ishamael "relate to" Rand? What exactly did happen to him back in the AoL that caused him to become the "Betrayer of Hope?"

 

I think Ishamael's past is going to be a big important part of the end.

Hard to discuss Perrin's dark prophecy when its the first we've heard of it and have no real leads as to how it will come about. Obviously it is setting up a confrontation with him and Slayer, but I think that was already foreshadowed back in the Emond's Field storyline. The dreamspike, as of ch. 5, is a mystery so it would be pure speculation to say anything about other than that it will be used in TAR against him (duh).

 

I don't think we even know what the "light" prophecies say of Perrin. The hammer/axe thing came from Moridin. It seems Perrin's prophecies are much more fleshed out in whatever prophecy moridin is consulting. If Graendal is going after Perrin though, his only real hope is to reunite with Rand; and quick.

[nuclearunderpants]

Question to those who have read Chapter 2. In another part of the board it was said that the Aiel were said to have been riding horses. Where does that impression come from? I'm not questioning the assertions, but I am able to find only one thing that might be interpreted as Aiel riding a horse. Any help will be much appreciated.

[yakaji]

Question to those who have read Chapter 2. In another part of the board it was said that the Aiel were said to have been riding horses. Where does that impression come from? I'm not questioning the assertions, but I am able to find only one thing that might be interpreted as Aiel riding a horse. Any help will be much appreciated.

 

(DISCLAIMER: I'm still waiting on my Sam Weller's copy to arrive - bloody not having ToM 39h21m hours after it was released!! - so I'm answering based on the audiobook excerpt)

 

I'm pretty sure this comes from Perrin telling Gaul, I think, to tell some of the maidens to ride ahead and do some sort of scouting. That's all I saw. My memory is that while it's almost certainly an error, it could technically be ascribed to a lapse in Perrin's memory. I don't remember any Aiel ACTUALLY being said to ride horses in the chapter. But I could be mistaken.

[nuclearunderpants]

Question to those who have read Chapter 2. In another part of the board it was said that the Aiel were said to have been riding horses. Where does that impression come from? I'm not questioning the assertions, but I am able to find only one thing that might be interpreted as Aiel riding a horse. Any help will be much appreciated.

 

(DISCLAIMER: I'm still waiting on my Sam Weller's copy to arrive - bloody not having ToM 39h21m hours after it was released!! - so I'm answering based on the audiobook excerpt)

 

I'm pretty sure this comes from Perrin telling Gaul, I think, to tell some of the maidens to ride ahead and do some sort of scouting. That's all I saw. My memory is that while it's almost certainly an error, it could technically be ascribed to a lapse in Perrin's memory. I don't remember any Aiel ACTUALLY being said to ride horses in the chapter. But I could be mistaken.

 

 

That makes sense. I'll have to check it again. Thanks for the information. It was starting to drive me batty!

[jemron]

Let's talk more about Moridin/Ishamael and less about the Amyrlin's Anger (Ch. 3).

 

That scene where he showed the dark prophecy to Graendal!!! Why has nobody discussed this yet?!

 

Also, why could Ishamael "relate to" Rand? What exactly did happen to him back in the AoL that caused him to become the "Betrayer of Hope?"

 

I think Ishamael's past is going to be a big important part of the end.

Hard to discuss Perrin's dark prophecy when its the first we've heard of it and have no real leads as to how it will come about. Obviously it is setting up a confrontation with him and Slayer, but I think that was already foreshadowed back in the Emond's Field storyline. The dreamspike, as of ch. 5, is a mystery so it would be pure speculation to say anything about other than that it will be used in TAR against him (duh).

 

I don't think we even know what the "light" prophecies say of Perrin. The hammer/axe thing came from Moridin. It seems Perrin's prophecies are much more fleshed out in whatever prophecy moridin is consulting. If Graendal is going after Perrin though, his only real hope is to reunite with Rand; and quick.

 

So, what had Verin read of the Dark Prophecies? How did she have access? Is it common knowledge among DFs? She asked Perrin at one point earlier on when he would take up the hammer instead of the axe, so she knew something of it. She also was the one to jot down the DP in Fal Dara and study it (and probably report it too).

 

Where do DPs come from, I wonder? It seems that Perrin and Mat were not a threat to Ba'alzamon at the beginning of the series, and so my question is, are the DPs they have newer? Or where they always a threat, but "less of a threat"? It seems like the Forsaken didn't care about Mat or Perrin until recently.

[maiden1]

In regard to the Rand/Egwane confrontation, I loved it. Some fans were concerned as to Rand's machoness and awesomeness after the preview to chapter 1. I don't think anyone is in doubt anymore. He appears to have found a great balance between serenity and bada**. At first I did find it a bit underwhelming, and then decided that this was a great demonstration of how the new Rand will do business; straight to the point, in control, unquestionable, and determined. By making it short yet respectful, he is leaving no room to be pushed around or manipulated while making it clear that we are on his terms now. Love the new confidence.

[Dredlord]

In regard to the Rand/Egwane confrontation, I loved it. Some fans were concerned as to Rand's machoness and awesomeness after the preview to chapter 1. I don't think anyone is in doubt anymore. He appears to have found a great balance between serenity and bada**. At first I did find it a bit underwhelming, and then decided that this was a great demonstration of how the new Rand will do business; straight to the point, in control, unquestionable, and determined. By making it short yet respectful, he is leaving no room to be pushed around or manipulated while making it clear that we are on his terms now. Love the new confidence.

 

 

I asked this question in the 1-15 discussion gonna ask it here too.. How the heck did Rand recognize Suain? sisters who knew her for 20 years didn't even know who she was after she was stilled and healed again, But Rand walks right up to her and says "what's up?" after only ever seeing her for about 10 minutes a couple years ago.

[maiden1]

There are a lot of Wheel of Time Fans out there now hunting for TOM like Gollum after the One Ring. "We needs it. We has to have it. My Precious...book." Just a casual observation as I peruse Chapters 1-5.

 

 

I originall ordered the book on Amazon and then found out it would not be here until 8-10 days after November 2. It was only 15 bucks, but I went right on over the Barns and Noble and paid 22 on the day it came out. Well worth the 7 bucks to have it on time. I don't think I could have waited while it sat on a shelf in the store down the street.

[Mulk]

In regard to the Rand/Egwane confrontation, I loved it. Some fans were concerned as to Rand's machoness and awesomeness after the preview to chapter 1. I don't think anyone is in doubt anymore. He appears to have found a great balance between serenity and bada**. At first I did find it a bit underwhelming, and then decided that this was a great demonstration of how the new Rand will do business; straight to the point, in control, unquestionable, and determined. By making it short yet respectful, he is leaving no room to be pushed around or manipulated while making it clear that we are on his terms now. Love the new confidence.

 

 

I asked this question in the 1-15 discussion gonna ask it here too.. How the heck did Rand recognize Suain? sisters who knew her for 20 years didn't even know who she was after she was stilled and healed again, But Rand walks right up to her and says "what's up?" after only ever seeing her for about 10 minutes a couple years ago.

 

Rand witnessed (from stealth) the meeting in TAR where the Salidar AS summoned Egwene to them. Siuan was there, she made the TAR map that showed Egwene where to go, and she was called by name there.

 

At least, that's my take.

[jemron]

I think Rand has some new ability where he's basically able to "see the soul" of a person. Weird, yes, but possible. Maybe he can see people as they are seen by the Pattern. Also, with Lews Therin's memories, maybe he knew what signs to look for in a person who had been stilled/gentled after being bound by the Oath Rod. Maybe he recognized the signs in Siuan.

 

Later it seems like he's able to see other things about people too...