Discuss The Full Book

[Byzantine279]

Ohh, I expect a lot of people are going to die in the last book, but it won't be Lan.

 

The simple reason is it has been stated for 13 books (including the prequel) that he is going to die in the blight trying to avenge his fallen kingdom. It would simply be too easy for him to die now, and we all know RJ never wrote things in an obvious manner. Generally in the WoT the best bet is to figure out what is most likely, reverse it, and then you have a good shot at being right. Don't forget the odds of Graendal escaping and Aran'gar dying, it was literally the least mentioned outcome in these forums (I think one person said it, I know a few thought both died). I can see him dying later in the book, but he still have one of Min's visions to fulfill.

 

Honestly, we know a few people are going to survive the Last Battle (Mat, Fortuna, and I believe Avi being 3 of them). I suspect pretty much half of the other named characters are going to die (disregarding the random characters only named in death or mentioned once or twice, of course).

[BladeDancer]

My main gripe with the book is that Rand did not seem to do enough. It is possible that the final book will reveal more of Rand's actions over the month since meeting Egwene but from what he have seen he is about to meet Egwene again and so is only about a day away from going to Shayol Ghul. So the Last Battle is imminent, it is literally tomorrow and yet Rand has not got his Asha'man at the Black Tower onside and ready to rumble. Rand knows that the Borderlands have already been invaded and yet the Black Tower is still full of Asha'man not helping or properly preparing. Indeed Rand suspects Taim and the Black Tower have been subverted but has done nothing!! All he has done is sent one of his trusted Asha'man undercover to check it out and report. All very well and good, but he is literally a day away from Shayol Ghul. Why has he left it so long to secure the Black Tower's loyalty?

 

Surely by now he should have

a) secured the Black Tower is free of Darkfriends using his new detection skills. The Asha'man are Rand's most powerful force in the Last Battle and yet he has not secured them.

b) organised full training with Aes Sedai and Asha'man working at channelling in circles together apart from just the few like Flynn, Narishma. An exchange of knowledge such as Nyneave's healing madness technique and Flynn's healing techniques. The Asha'man will be able to use various ter'angreal that utilise saidin, Rand should have ensured that all useful and identifiable ter'angreal are accessible to the Asha'man.

[WhiskyJack]

Because he advisers lack your foresight;) I doubt Rand will do much wit BT even in last book. It will be Logain faction plus Aes Sedai vs Taim lackeys and their aids.

[Blademaster56]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember reading that Min's viewings always relate to the future and one of her first viewings of Lan was a baby in a cradle with a sword. Doesn't this mean Lan has a baby meaning he lives?

[Byzantine279]

That is one possible interpretation, Blade. Another is him fulfilling the oaths he took as a babe, which would include dying. As such it is impossible to be certain. I'm just of the mind that in the WoT counting anyone out is foolish. (And you did remember that correctly, it was in fact this viewing that was being referred to when they asked if Min's viewing were always of the future)

 

Brandon did state that AMoL is going to be a bloodbath, I expect this "Strike at Shayol Ghul" to be even bloodier than the one that LTT let, and that killed over 10,000 people.

[Guest Malkier_Man]

I am very upset :-(

 

I privately only had THREE little wishes for this book and I have been told by sources that I trust that NONE of the three occur in this book.

 

I am crushed.

 

Avoid reading further if you want to avoid seeing me expand on these three things:

 

****************

 

****************

 

 

****************

 

****************

 

I thought my yearnings were not too much to ask for. I didn't have to have Asmo's killer revealed or some long-prophecied battle happen. My three wishes were small things and I can't believe NONE of the three occur in TOM -

 

My Three Wishes Were:

 

 

1 Mesaana's Tower Identity Revealed.

 

2 Demandred's Identity/What He's Been Up To Revealed.

 

3 Not so much Moiraine Demandred's TOG Rescue Itself...But Rand Meeting Her Again.

 

 

Please...someome tell me...in the name of all that is Team Jordan, HOW could NONE of these things be in TOM???:--(((

 

 

- Fish

Well the first wish on your list is certainly answered in the book

[Darth Krewl]

Ohh, I expect a lot of people are going to die in the last book, but it won't be Lan.

 

The simple reason is it has been stated for 13 books (including the prequel) that he is going to die in the blight trying to avenge his fallen kingdom. It would simply be too easy for him to die now, and we all know RJ never wrote things in an obvious manner. Generally in the WoT the best bet is to figure out what is most likely, reverse it, and then you have a good shot at being right. Don't forget the odds of Graendal escaping and Aran'gar dying, it was literally the least mentioned outcome in these forums (I think one person said it, I know a few thought both died). I can see him dying later in the book, but he still have one of Min's visions to fulfill.

 

Honestly, we know a few people are going to survive the Last Battle (Mat, Fortuna, and I believe Avi being 3 of them). I suspect pretty much half of the other named characters are going to die (disregarding the random characters only named in death or mentioned once or twice, of course).

 

Well, I did say that my guess that Lan will die in the next book could be wrong. All I was trying to say was that, after 13 books, seeing no major characters die leaves a little to be desired for my taste.

 

I also wouldn't presume to know how many characters will survive the Last Battle (if the good guys win, at any rate, which, IMO, is no given at this point) but, it would seem to me like you're right. Funny that you'd include Lan (who seems to be headed for a certain death) in that reduced group, but I could see it happening. Not a fan of the guy either way, so I don't really mind if he lives or dies. I only think that his death could be quite spectacular and moving, if he were to go out in a blaze of glory, like I think he could.

 

I've read all 13 books at this point, but I'm not a die-hard WoT fan, so I wouldn't know Mr. Jordan's writing style well enough to know what to expect in this regard. As for the Graendal escape, I thought that was imaginative, though saving the woman, only to have her fail so miserably and end up as one of Haran's toys in the end, doesn't make too much sense to me. I would've thunk a woman as smart and resourceful as Graendal should've done much better.

[Darth Krewl]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember reading that Min's viewings always relate to the future and one of her first viewings of Lan was a baby in a cradle with a sword. Doesn't this mean Lan has a baby meaning he lives?

 

I don't really remember Min's viewings all that much. So many of them and so many things happening in this series, that it'd be impossible for me to remember the girl's visions, after just 1 read of each book.

 

That being said, I do remember Moiraine saying that Lan was sworn to fight the Shadow since he was a babe in the cradle and that he was wielding a sword since then, too. So, Min's viewing could be related to that.

 

As for him having a baby, he could've knocked up Nynaeve before leaving for the Blight and then, fall in battle before his kid's born. Just like Rand's not supposed to live past Tarmon Gai'don, but Elayne's already pregnant and, according to Min, she will have her babies whether Rand makes it or not. Don't remember that viewing either, but since Elayne keeps bringing it up all the time, that's pretty hard to forget...hehehe...

[Byzantine279]

Actually Avi still needs to have Rand's kids, so chances are high that unless something changes Rand will survive the last battle somehow.

 

The light losing would be depressing, I don't think RJ would burden us with that ending, because it would be a burden, that, and there was a plan for book(s) about Mat And Fortuona returning to the Seanchan continent and reconquering after the LB, Which could only happen if the light wins.

 

Nyn would be showing signs if she was pregnant, she hasn't seen Lan in some time so it would be clear by now. And mins full vision was a baby with a sword, and 7 towers. It seems to be a foretelling about Malkier, but we aren't sure what.

[Guest Ishu161]

The real Towers of Midnight are in Seanchan....are these the ones the title is based upon? If yes, there was almost nothing about them in the book...so why bother?

maybe I'm just overthinking...gotta get some sleep.

[Jeangray]

Actually Avi still needs to have Rand's kids, so chances are high that unless something changes Rand will survive the last battle somehow.

 

Rand can still knock Avi up before going to SG. Ditto Lan and Nyn if this viewing really predicts a mutual child. IIRC, Min didn't really know what it meant, did she? I hope that decent amount of main/important secondary characters dies in AMOL, otherwise the whole TG thing will be an awful farce.

[Tiinker]

The real Towers of Midnight are in Seanchan....are these the ones the title is based upon? If yes, there was almost nothing about them in the book...so why bother?

maybe I'm just overthinking...gotta get some sleep.

 

Yea I agree. I was expecting some long draw out with the Seanchan but apparently not :P I also thought we'd get a bit further in and closer to TG. There's still loads of unanswered questions.

Camelyn's under attack, White Tower about to be bombarded by damane, Taim still in control, Demandred not revealed. Shara coming about..? Rand where? I feel like A Memory of light should be atleast 5000 pages for this all to come together..

Does anyone else get the feeling that Hawking is going to kill Fain?

[waffle]

I feel like A Memory of light should be atleast 5000 pages for this all to come together..

 

 

I wouldn´t mind

[FarShainMael]

RE Mat and Tuon/Fortuona..

 

I am still not convinced that those two are still married, because, essentially, Tuon 'died'. An actual chapter title emphasised this fact; I'm sure it's significant. I tried to find the thread that dealt with this, but it seems to have been balefired

 

It's by no means clear that Fortuona (mslf) herself still thinks of herself as married. Mat has certainly recognised the difference between marrying the DotNM and marrying the empress. So what's going on?

 

People have raised the valid objection that this arc should not fizzle out like that. But I think I have a possible answer.. The action may go like this:

 

Mat: Tuon! Darling! Hey everyone, meet the wife!

 

Fortuona (glares): You married Tuon, and she is dead. I am Fortuona. I am the Empress. We are not married.

 

Mat kisses Empress thoroughly. The Deathwatch guards try to intervene, but his ta'verenism and luck means that they trip over their own feet and stab each other.

 

Fortuona: Er..

 

Mat: Will you marry me?

 

Fortuona: Yes, all right. But who will officiate?

 

Rand: Me.

 

The couple take their vows..

 

Rand: I now pronounce you man and wife. Oh.. and that means that since you're now the wife of my Marshal-General, you're bound to serve me.

 

Fortuona: Oh.

 

Or something like that..

[Crael123]

RE Mat and Tuon/Fortuona..

 

I am still not convinced that those two are still married, because, essentially, Tuon 'died'. An actual chapter title emphasised this fact; I'm sure it's significant. I tried to find the thread that dealt with this, but it seems to have been balefired

 

It's by no means clear that Fortuona (mslf) herself still thinks of herself as married. Mat has certainly recognised the difference between marrying the DotNM and marrying the empress. So what's going on?

 

People have raised the valid objection that this arc should not fizzle out like that. But I think I have a possible answer.. The action may go like this:

 

Mat: Tuon! Darling! Hey everyone, meet the wife!

 

Fortuona (glares): You married Tuon, and she is dead. I am Fortuona. I am the Empress. We are not married.

 

Mat kisses Empress thoroughly. The Deathwatch guards try to intervene, but his ta'verenism and luck means that they trip over their own feet and stab each other.

 

Fortuona: Er..

 

Mat: Will you marry me?

 

Fortuona: Yes, all right. But who will officiate?

 

Rand: Me.

 

The couple take their vows..

 

Rand: I now pronounce you man and wife. Oh.. and that means that since you're now the wife of my Marshal-General, you're bound to serve me.

 

Fortuona: Oh.

 

Or something like that..

 

ROFL if only this would happen!!! hahahahaha

[Crael123]

I feel like A Memory of light should be atleast 5000 pages for this all to come together..

 

 

I wouldn´t mind

 

I'd prefer it

[nolirion]

I did not saw it that way

 

Um, I'm not sure what that means. You hadn't seen that before, or you disagree with RJ?

I was convinced that with their "training" you could find a way around the this oath ,

Never use the One Power as a weapon, except

Against Shadowspawn ,

To save her own life, or her Warder's, or the life of another sister

 

If they where enough persuade that if they did not channel to harm or kill they will be killed or sister will be killed ,or even persuade you opponent is shadowspawn .

So your quote of RJ kick my point in the jaw

[ChaosNovaXZ]

There are a ton of plots and details left to play out, so we can hope for a longer book, or a book of about the same length absolutely filled to the brim with revelations, battles, and the like. I'm not sure which I'd prefer.

 

Also, how will PoVs be handled in the last installment? It's the last book, so I'm sure both us and the creative forces behind the books don't want anyone left out, but at the same time, will the plot move fast enough if everyone is touched upon?

[randismyboi]

I thought Min's baby viewing of Lan referred to him as a baby, when his parents left him with the sword of Malkier kings, not that he would have a child.

Also i feel naming this book towers of midnight was ridiculous when the towers are barley even mentioned in the book.

Finally, the epilogue was pretty lame, as the entire book was wrapping up loose ends and bringing everything together, until Caemlyn is on fire and evil Aiel things are attacking

other than that i thought Sanderson did a pretty good job

[waffle]

I thought Min's baby viewing of Lan referred to him as a baby, when his parents left him with the sword of Malkier kings, not that he would have a child.

Also i feel naming this book towers of midnight was ridiculous when the towers are barley even mentioned in the book.

Finally, the epilogue was pretty lame, as the entire book was wrapping up loose ends and bringing everything together, until Caemlyn is on fire and evil Aiel things are attacking

 

Mins viewings are of the future

 

Towers of midnight are supposed to represent the forsaken. Should the book have been called "Mat goes to the tower of ghenjei" or "Perrin makes a hammer, Faile smells hopeful"?

 

Finally, the epilogue was pretty lame, as the entire book was wrapping up loose ends and bringing everything together, until Caemlyn is on fire and evil Aiel things are attacking

 

huh?

[RedRaider]

I did not like this book. I feel that it was only slightly better than CoT. So much space wasted on nothing. A serious let down for me. One other thing, Die Elayne, die!!!!!!!!!

[randismyboi]

I thought Min's baby viewing of Lan referred to him as a baby, when his parents left him with the sword of Malkier kings, not that he would have a child.

Also i feel naming this book towers of midnight was ridiculous when the towers are barley even mentioned in the book.

Finally, the epilogue was pretty lame, as the entire book was wrapping up loose ends and bringing everything together, until Caemlyn is on fire and evil Aiel things are attacking

 

Mins viewings are of the future

 

Towers of midnight are supposed to represent the forsaken. Should the book have been called "Mat goes to the tower of ghenjei" or "Perrin makes a hammer, Faile smells hopeful"?

 

Finally, the epilogue was pretty lame, as the entire book was wrapping up loose ends and bringing everything together, until Caemlyn is on fire and evil Aiel things are attacking

 

huh?

In the glossary Towers of Midnight referred to towers in Seanchan rather than representing the Forsaken, and I don't remember anyone visiting the towers in the book that was named after them so I don't think the name fits.

Your alternate title suggestions would fit the book better but do seem rather drab.

[georg457]

A lot of cool stuff happened but they couldn't make it satisfying. TGS was a lot better.

[Zefram]

I feel like A Memory of light should be atleast 5000 pages for this all to come together..

 

 

I wouldn´t mind

 

Hate to break it to you but Brandon specifically stated in his blog that the last book won't be longer either TGS or TOM (whichever was the larger of the two).

[aunt_pol]

As regards the name Towers of Midnight, personally I always assumed it was to refer to all of the troublesome towers in the series, more or less - Black, White, Ghenjei (and spires visible from same), whatever Moridin has going on in the Blight, and of course the ones at Imfaral, in Seanchan.

 

I noticed something in the Glossary, though, and I'm too lazy to check in TGS or previous books for it, but I think it's new. The Glossary entry for Towers of Midnight says, "Legend has it that in time of dire need, the Imperial family will return to the ToM and "right that which is wrong"".

 

Now, what could that mean? Because surely Fortuona should be hotfooting it back there??