Rand's Dizziness question.

[Erelvar]

Hello everyone. Im new to the site and have been looking through the forums here for the answer to a question that concerns Rand al'Thor. Why does he get dizzy when he grabs hold of the one power? I've read the books a few times, and am in the process of doing it again in anticpation of the new book. And maybe i don't see it or haven't read it again yet but any guesses or just a simple answer would be great. Thanks everyone who answers. And thank you for welcoming me to this great community of fans.

[OptimusPrime]

just to be sure, have you read TGS? If so I will tell you my theory.

 

Dont worry its not a writeup, just wana be sure if Im not spoiling stuff before I say it.

[haloun]

DM i am not sure if your theory and mine are the same but are you thinking the taint's source or nature of the taint?

[OptimusPrime]

I am thinking the sickness is something to do with something Rand did that made him act a certain way for the majority of the rest. Think when the dizziness comes, what MIGHT have caused it, and how long Rand has been able to do the thing he did before we knew he could do it. The THIS IS NOT HAPPENING moment.

 

Relating to the Taints source in a way, yeah

[haloun]

yeah thats similar, my thought was the taint being a form of the TP if only the TP channeling sickness and amplified by the OP that is being channelled but it makes a lot of sense the way you say it too.

[Byzantine279]

Isn't the dizziness now part of the connection with Moridin? (sorry if this is a spoiler to you, but you sound like you've read them all).

[haloun]

good point, but moridin was using the TP to create his BF which is what amplified the taint sickness in rand.

[OptimusPrime]

good point, but moridin was using the TP to create his BF which is what amplified the taint sickness in rand.

 

I cant say it outright because the OP hasnt said if theyve read TGS!!!!!!!

[trashbird1240]

Isn't the dizziness now part of the connection with Moridin? (sorry if this is a spoiler to you, but you sound like you've read them all).

 

The dizziness dates from when Rand and "The Stranger" (turns out to be Moridin) in Shadar Logoth accidentally touched their streams of Balefire in A Crown of Swords. There is no spoiler in that. I'll add the non-spoiler that nothing in TGS resolves this. Rand merely has more to think about.

[Erelvar]

sorry i haven't gotten back sooner. been busy lol. yes i've read all the books. i am going back and reading them all again. so far though i haven't really been able to figure it out yet. also didn't he start to experience his dizziness before the two balefire's touched? i can't remember but i believe so. also i'm reading knife of dreams now, and this is after the male half has been cleansed, but he is still talking about being dizzy.

 

"Drawing a deep breath, Rand gripped the casement on either side of the window against the dizziness that would come-the Dragon's golden-maned heads on the back of his hands seemed to writhe-and reached out to seize the Power. His head spun as saidin flooded into him, icy flames and crumbling mountains, a chaos trying to pull him under. But blessedly clean.....the odd illness that should have gone with the taint..." Knife of Dreams Chapter: Vows

[Naffy]

I think its generally accepted that the dizziness comes from the link that was established between Rand and Moridin when their balefire streams crossed. The best evidence for this is that when the dizziness comes on, Rand begins to see Moridins face. There are quotes KoD that really drive this point home. Add that to the part of TGS where Moridin explicitly states that they are linked and I think you can make the conclusion.

[Erelvar]

so if Moridin and Rand are connected... is Moridin a version of Rand (LTT) that has been turned to the shadow then? Perhaps from another age? That would explain the similarities that Rand sees.

[ghoullio]

Wouldn't Rand and Moridin be link dbecause as their Balefire streams touched, each was ripped from the pattern? They would have negated each others attack, thus putting them back in, causing some kind of paradox. They may be linked because they entered the pattern at the same instant. The dizziness could be a mixture of sharing an identity with Moridin and having access to the TP that he was unaware of until TGS.

[GYLD]

Souls cannot be split.

[Naffy]

Wouldn't Rand and Moridin be link dbecause as their Balefire streams touched, each was ripped from the pattern? They would have negated each others attack, thus putting them back in, causing some kind of paradox. They may be linked because they entered the pattern at the same instant. The dizziness could be a mixture of sharing an identity with Moridin and having access to the TP that he was unaware of until TGS.

My theory on this is, like you said, the two balefire streams touching created a paradox. The only way for the pattern to remove this paradox is to make the two streams of balefire one.

[Erelvar]

the two balefires touching wouldnt have ripped anyone out of the pattern. only if the balefire "touched" the person. but they never did. they just collide when trying to get to Shadar Logoth (sp sorry).

[OptimusPrime]

Thanks for replying about which books you have read Erelvar, I just didnt want to risk it.

 

I think Rand gained True Power access as soon as he became linked to Moridin and that every time Rand channels his reaching out to saidin makes him reach past the True Power in a sense, giving him the wave of nausea just before he siezes saidin. One of the main reasons I think this is that when Rand assumes the void in that split second before seizing saidin, he pushes all emotion into that Void, yes? He does that BEFORE touching the True Source. And the few times we have seen the True Power channeled it there is a lack of emotion. Its like this lack of emotion is like a True Power Void (which people have already said on here, I didnt come up with that bit) and that every time Rand seizes saidin it also exposes him to the True Power for a brief moment. After he has saidin in him, emotions are still present, but even though the emotions are there he cannot feel it, yet is still aware of them, meaning he is no longer in the True Power Void.

[Naffy]

the two balefires touching wouldnt have ripped anyone out of the pattern. only if the balefire "touched" the person. but they never did. they just collide when trying to get to Shadar Logoth (sp sorry).

The balefire streams did not create a paradox by ripping anyone out of the pattern. They createad a paradox by ripping each other out of the pattern. The paradox is that if they ripped eachother out of the pattern, then they didn't exist, but then they wouldn't have ripped each other out of the pattern and so on.

[Kaznen]

I always thought the dizziness was the result of the slash Fain gave him across the stab wound he got from Ishy. I don't think Flinn is a darkfriend who set it up but just a result of the two "taints" fighting against each other. When he began his assault on Illian in CoS he noted the two seemed to resonate against each other.

 

I think it was what led him to figuring out how to cleanse the taint from Saidin.

 

The reason it is still there is because the darkness from the original wound came from Ishy's staff and not the OP.

[yoniy0]

so if Moridin and Rand are connected... is Moridin a version of Rand (LTT) that has been turned to the shadow then? Perhaps from another age? That would explain the similarities that Rand sees.

No. Elan Morin was born in the AoL just like every other man. LTT knew him back then, so no.

[spoke]

I always thought the dizziness was the result of the slash Fain gave him across the stab wound he got from Ishy. I don't think Flinn is a darkfriend who set it up but just a result of the two "taints" fighting against each other. When he began his assault on Illian in CoS he noted the two seemed to resonate against each other.

 

I think it was what led him to figuring out how to cleanse the taint from Saidin.

 

The reason it is still there is because the darkness from the original wound came from Ishy's staff and not the OP.

 

 

Yes when I first brought up this theory (theory board after Aug10), it has mostly been ignored. However, since re-reading ACoS for the umpteenth time, the evidence is there. Look at the way Damer Flinn heals Rand. His comments are that he sealed it away for a time.

 

Later when Rand wakes up and seizes Saidin for the first time he mentions something red spiderwebed across the void. Later while in Shadar Logoth, he felt the injuries resonate against each other. All of this is prior to him crossing streams of balefire with Moridin.

 

However the Link with Moridin is probably caused by the balefire streams crossing, but the sickness is not.

[yoniy0]

Later when Rand wakes up and seizes Saidin for the first time he mentions something red spiderwebed across the void. Later while in Shadar Logoth, he felt the injuries resonate against each other. All of this is prior to him crossing streams of balefire with Moridin.

 

However the Link with Moridin is probably caused by the balefire streams crossing, but the sickness is not.

Dashiva licked his lips at Min's rear-end. That's what the red spiders were about - he was jealous and angry (he later almost cut Dashiva with a Gateway).

Rand always feels the wounds beating against one another. I fail to see the connection to his dizziness. On the other hand, when they cross BF streams his vision doubled (which also happens later when he embraces sai'din) and he gets dizzy, understandably so. He also sees Moridin's face, and whenever the face is blurred he feels dizzy). It all seems pretty straightforward, to me.

[haloun]

the balefire started it for sure, i still think the original taint was part of the TP touching saidin, that is why anytime he chanelled his wound throbbed, it was created by the TP, Ishamael didn't use anything else, also since the stream of balefire moridin used was TP generated, it is very possible that (and I am not going due ex machina on anyone here) the balefire had to combine both to stay real, obviously balefire touching a thread of balefire would have dangerous consequences, they are both unraveled from even before they are created, so the pattern HAS to create some form of circle between the TP and the OP in order for it to work. this would give rand access to the TP and would also be a means of him having to bypass it everytime he touched the OP, his body is having aftereffects of a "forced circle" maybe.

[didymos]

the balefire started it for sure, i still think the original taint was part of the TP touching saidin

 

OK, no. The taint was the result of a single event: the sealing of DO. In that the DO is the Source of TP and the taint was created by the DO, yes, it was in some sense the result or product of the TP. But they are not the same:

Azral Hanan on Twitter - 29 July 2010 4:15 am

Is the taint and the True Power the same?

Brandon - 3:51 pm

No, they are different.

 

that is why anytime he chanelled his wound throbbed

 

It throbbed in resonance with the taint on the True Source, just like the Fain wound throbbed in resonance with the taint of Shadar Logoth.