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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

trashbird1240

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Everything posted by trashbird1240

  1. My favorite has to be Elayne and Aviendha bonding (re-born) as First Sisters. This was one of the scenes in this book that convinced me RJ was a truly great writer.
  2. Mordeth wanted the dagger; it was his. Mordeth or Fain the Darkfriend stole the horn to use as bait, or to parley with others who might want the horn. The horn was his salvation for being a Darkfriend. He was hoping to blow the horn to redeem himself. He reveals that he's a Darkfriend by saying "The horn was my salvation." Ingtar is given credit for shooting at Rand inside Fal Dara Keep, and accidentally hitting Siuan Sanche, the Watcher of the Seals, the Flame of Tar Valon, the Amyrlin Seat.
  3. Sometimes I try channeling the tea kettle to boiling.
  4. No, it's not terrible. It is as well-written as any of the others. However, the timing of events and the way the plot is unfolded is definitely an artistic experiment. It's very different from the other books. I don't think I'll bother to read it again, but it's not terrible. You definitely shouldn't skip it. I think that when people say "the later books really suck," they are talking about CoT. I think that because Winter's Heart (definitely a "later book") is awesome. Knife of Dreams certainly doesn't suck, although I didn't like it as much as Winter's Heart. However, these people are also wrong if they say CoT sucks. None of the books "suck." I learned a long time ago just to not listen to other readers, I just so often disagree with them.
  5. There are many, many things that I have come to love about Robert Jordan's writing in the Wheel of Time series. However, the thing that hooked me right away was the human quality of the characters. After I finished The Eye of the World, I simply could not get into reading a different novel because I really, really wanted to know what would happen to Nynaeve. Probably the only series that comes close is the Hitchhiker series from Douglas Adams, but with that one I mainly just wanted to read more silly stuff. I didn't really care about the characters. I read the first few pages of The Eye of the World and returned it to the library, and then one evening I just had to go buy the paperback. It was a weird feeling. I don't. I have told people what I like about it, but I don't think I will every convince anybody. They just so rarely care about the same things that I do.
  6. I actually like it because it doesn't lend itself well to "fantasy nerd stuff." Perhaps you feel differently, but I feel like most other books I've read fill those stereotypes too well. Yes. I don't find it repetitive. I believe this is a problem with real life that Jordan portrays excellently. We must be reading different books. The Wheel of Time is full of moral ambiguity. Did you ever doubt that Gandalf was a good guy? I find myself doubting characters all the time. Sometimes I think Gawyn could be a Darkfriend. And then there are characters that are not necessarily evil but they don't help any of the good guys: like the Children of the Light. I believe there's quite a lot of discussion about this by the characters themselves. They're all shocked that they've been able to survive so long. Have you considered that it might be intentional, or that it might be part of the story? Plenty of important characters die. Again I disagree.
  7. I don't think you should be as worried about being taken out of context as you should be worried about being able to spell and construct sentences. Most of the time I can't even understand what you're trying to say, much less what you are saying.
  8. I'm pretty sure Naeff predates Towers of Midnight; I can't remember where I've seen him before, but he didn't strike me as a new character. Also "utterly incapable" is pretty strong; I think he's capable. YOu may not like the names, but that doesn't make him "incapable."
  9. What I like about this theory is not that I have some evidence, but one of the points of WoT is that history in the Wheel of Time is like real history, i.e. our knowledge is only as good as our sources. Rand saw some female AS talking during the breaking about some male AS actually destroying a city, but we'll see. Again, the thing I love about WoT is that you could be right. Even if you're not, it shows how awesome these books are that you can just raise the question.
  10. From theoryland database: https://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dcjspjqg_53c74tbncv This sounds precisely like what a Mormon friend told me about Mormon temples. He said that within a temple "the veil is thin." I didn't ask him to explain further since it didn't sound like something I'd understand. Jordan may have gotten many of his ideas from Buddhism, but I don't know if there's something similar (a similar place, such as a temple, dzong, etc) in Buddhism.
  11. Did you say "If you were disappointed, you should read book 13, there's way more spanking in that one." The most daring plot is absolutely nothing without character development. I didn't believe this myself until I read Bernard Cornwell and Robert Jordan. Other books rely on you to know what Paladin, a wizard, a dwarf etc. are in some established fantasy lexicon. That's fine if the material is historical fiction and you've read the history (i.e. Cornwell's series about Alfred the Great). However, with RJ creating his own world, there's only one way to do that and that is to build up the characters and their lives in that world. Seriously, the only character with much emotional depth in The Fellowship of the Ring is Gollum. Gandalf maybe. When I got done with that book, I just wanted to know more about Gollum. When I was done with The Eye of the World, I really wanted to know what was going to happen to Nynaeve. I had never had that feeling about a character from a novel or a film before. As for those of you who want to list why you hate the Wheel of Time or debate what you like the least about it: I'm not interested: I would delete your posts if I could as they are useless noise. I'm interested in why certain shallow people, who obviously haven't read enough of this series, but have voraciously devoured say Harry Potter, say that it sucks. I know that I haven't read as much fantasy literature as these people; the Wheel of Time is the only fantasy series that I've read most of and I'm curious as to how it's different. Obviously there are the things that I like about it, but I wonder what other people expect of a series that they would be so repulsed by the way Robert Jordan writes. Let me clarify one other thing: when I say I like the language RJ uses, I don't mean how long he goes on in describing things. I mean the words he chooses. He doesn't choose pretentious phrases like "And so let it be..." or "Being the first book..." and sh*t like that. That was what drew me in to the book right away. Even in the Prologue of The Eye of the World --- a rather dramatic scene --- the language is plain and only as complex as it needs to be.
  12. Because they are fools! Well that goes without saying... Now hold it right there: this was one thing that I thought was right on. I could tell from how RJ portrayed this that he'd read plenty of history (as I have). It would be far too simple, i.e. not believable, if she just walked in to Caemlyn and said "King me." The what? Lighter tone? The only lightness I see is the occasional joke on Mat, or by Mat. These books seem really dark to me: that's another thing I like, they're not just hero stories. If you've only read The Eye of the World, perhaps there's some parts that qualify. Thom is entertaining as he's supposed to be. After the first few pages of The Shadow Rising (incidentally my favorite book) everything is pretty bleak.
  13. And by the way when I said sex, I didn't mean intercourse. Where would we be if that was all there was to sex? I meant sex, sexual relationships, intimacy, sexual power, gender, gender-based power, abuse of any aforementioned powers. Halima! Hello! And of course pillow-friends, my friend. As for intercourse itself, I really like the way he portrays it. How important to the plot are the actual mechanics of the act itself. I can fill in those details myself. What's really important is what the characters do about it.
  14. Sorry, but WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING ON A WHEEL OF TIME FANSITE? It seems like you don't even like the books at all, just sayin'. Obviously you didn't read his post very carefully. Try not to be so impulsive next time, it gives the internet a bad reputation.
  15. Thanks for all the great replies. One of my friends said that: I thought it was weird. Authors really don't make that much money. I think if RJ wanted more money, he would have finished the series and pushed it to film. I wouldn't read Harry Potter just to tell somebody it sucks. I certainly don't think Lord of the Rings sucks, but I didn't really like it. This is one of the things that I forgot to put in my original list: the Wheel of Time is self-contained. If you don't know what a wizard is, you can still know what an Aes Sedai is. I seriously laugh when I hear people comparing the Wheel of Time and Lord of the Rings. Hello? There are no dwarves, elves or wizards in the Wheel of Time. I actually saw a review (not a customer, but a trained critic) calling Aes Sedai "female wizards." They're not wizards! They have a skill. Does Gandalf require skill? Not the way I read it. I thought of all these, but I think that if people really think that, they weren't paying attention. I started reading The Wheel of Time when I was 29, and I think anybody who thinks his coverage is not mature in nature, is still young enough to think they are more mature than most other people. The "needlessly bloated" language, as I said, is all about really important stuff. Who thinks which relationships are portrayed with coyness or unrealistically? I feel absolutely the opposite. And sex offscreen is just fine for me. What would the alternative look like? The spanking, denigration, humiliation --- especially with Galina and Egwene --- totally links in to the cultural pain of the Aiel, something they can't escape, and the temporary nature of pain experienced within a lifetime. Am I the only person who had this interpretation? As for nudity: most books, in my opinion, don't have enough. This series has enough boobs and explosions that it should please everyone. A Game of Thrones is at my house, waiting for me to finish Towers of Midnight. I'll look into the others --- thanks!
  16. I can understand people not liking how he describes furniture, rugs, clothing, etc. The problem is that those things matter -- a lot. If you don't think those things matter, you haven't read enough history. He makes them matter.
  17. I told a friend today that I was going to pick up my copy of Towers of Midnight. Here's how the conversation went down: Considering that this is somebody that I otherwise really like, I was really surprised to hear her talking like that. I can think of plenty of books that I didn't like, but I wouldn't say that any of them "just totally suck." Beside that, why does anybody think these books suck? What I like about the Wheel of Time (i.e. why I keep reading and wouldn't care if they dragged the series out for the rest of my natural life): The characters: I never thought I would say this, but I really love the characters and I find myself relating to them. The book is built around those characters and not necessarily around events that happen to them. Even though new characters keep coming up, they are always really well done. Robert Jordan's language: there is no "it came to pass" in the Wheel of Time. Reading Tolkien is like reading Shakespeare, it's beautiful and everything, but I don't think it really gets the job done (and people don't talk like that in real life, even in Shakespeare's time). Whereas the point with Shakespeare is IMHO to make beautiful language and express characters using mostly the skill of that language, novels have to use language that expresses the construction of the characters. Robert Jordan does this better than any other novelist I have read. These books are for adults. Even though the characters are quite young, the issues they face and the situations they deal with are presented in a very mature fashion. Not only that, but the situations are believable (yes, in a fantasy novel!) for people their age. Does Harry Potter get laid? Anywhere in the series? It's deep: yes, it's a fantasy novel and there's a certain levity that goes with that, but Robert Jordan deals gracefully with everything from intimate relations (an everyday subject) to free will versus determinism, the limitations of language; he deals with how folklore and history interweave, power structures in society, the place of art in society, and of course SEX! Show me another fantasy novel, or any kind of novel with mass appeal that deals with topics worthy of Rousseau and Wittgenstein. In the Wheel of Time it's all there, just as it's all there in real life. As I said above, I have not seen another author tackle more topics as well as Robert Jordan. My question is what are these people expecting that they end up thinking the books suck? Crossroads of Twilight was kinda boring. Kinda. Star Wars prequel trilogy: that sucked. Nynaeve and Elayne join a circus: kinda hokey. A book full of wizards and stupid people who have to make the wizard explain everything to them, that wouldn't make sense unless you've read Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit: sucks. Women crossing their arms beneath their breasts: kinda repetitive. Dragons that talk? I'll let you decide.
  18. I'm just rethinking my answer as I'm reading Lord of Chaos: Nynaeve healing Siuan: this is a huge one; I keep thinking of how I would direct it (as a film), mostly Siuan's reaction at how she can touch saidar again. Nynaeve is one of my favorite characters, and this scene is so huge in the theme of loss and pain that goes throughout the books (the Aiel, stilling, gentling, Egwene's beatings, Galina's humiliation). Aviendha's reunion with Elayne, and revealing what she did with Rand: "You may use the stick, or the knife..."
  19. I almost always listen to Gorecki's Symphony No. 3 during my nightly reads. Arvo Part is also good. These are modern composers, so if you're not into modern music, they may sound weird, but I think they fit the mood of the books really well. Shostakovich, Stravinsky, i.e. late Romantic/early modern stuff could be good as well.
  20. The dizziness dates from when Rand and "The Stranger" (turns out to be Moridin) in Shadar Logoth accidentally touched their streams of Balefire in A Crown of Swords. There is no spoiler in that. I'll add the non-spoiler that nothing in TGS resolves this. Rand merely has more to think about.
  21. I believe this was discussed in the canonical WoT FAQ's discussion of Asmodean's death.
  22. She's not a Friend of the Dark, she's Demandred ;) That all sounds good, but where's the real evidence? In fact, if she's a quick learner, that would be more like one of the Forsaken than a Darkfriend. And who could have escaped early enough --- excluding Ishamael --- to be as familiar to others and as wrinkly as Sorilea. Joel
  23. Never: free will and determinism are the biggest theme of these books, and if the characters didn't make stupid mistakes that point would be totally lost.
  24. Okay, then that doesn't rule out my alternative, which is that Demandred is a lesser Tairen lord. My other guess was Talmanes but if it came from RJ then it's true (and no, I'm not joking, that policy was in place for a quite a while on rasfrj).
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