Phenom's WoT Discussion and Questions Topic (NO SPOILERS)

[Sid]

A little question. I am not permitted to view member profiles (not even my own) or search the forums. Why is this? I'm trying to get an avatar.

Nobody can see people's profiles by clicking on the name in their posts for some reason (even their own) and search is also currently down. I believe it's because the site is still working out some issues. You can change your account settings by clicking on the box in the upper right-hand corner of the page with your username, and choosing the profile or settings options.

[Phenom]

A little over 3/4 of the way through. Some thoughts:

 

- I don't trust the merchants that the Aiel found in the Waste. Rand doesn't either...hmm...

- Trollocs that far down in the Waste...uh oh.

- Mat is coming to accept who his is (of the Manetheren royal blood I'm guessing). YES!

- Tanchico reminds me of Mexico City. lol

- It's so random how Gleb just pops up there with Eaganin.

- Nynaeve saw Birgitte and Slayer in the Dream World...hmm

- Slayer = Lord Luc = Lan's long-lost cousin or whatever that wanted to claim the Malkieri throne? Don't answer that ;)

- Perrin, you are too badass bro!

- I like the relationship between Faile and Perrin. :)

- Risky how Perrin asked the Whitecloaks to stay in Edmond's Field. But hey, he is the wolf king. ;)

- It looks like there is some of that Manetheren blood in the Two Rivers after all. Especially the younger guys.

- Aram wants to be a swordsman!? WTF!? But hell yeah, the Way of the Leaf is not realistic folks.

- Haha it was hilarious when Elayne got drunk. Good thing Nynaeve put her in her place.

[ascot7]

Hello from ascot7,

You have probably had a few messages by now Phenom, I believe that you should read the New spring first, then the first edition. Then go back to new spring if you want to. I have read the series twice, and i may read the TOM again before the last edition coming out in March 2012.

[Phenom]

Thanks ascot7, unfortunately it's too late to read New Spring first since I'm almost done with tSR.

 

I've read on about 30 pages from my last post and a lot has happened!

 

- Nynaeve and Elayne were found by a Forsaken I'm guessing...she did what she wanted with them.

- Egeanin knows what they are and she wants to us them.

- OMG...the White Tower went insane! How I hate Elaida...

- Suian and Leane stilled!? WOAH!

- Gawyn is a douche. Seriously, what happened to this kid?

- So he killed two Warders after Mat handled him like a chump...right...

[username13]

Guess you've seen what many people like about tSR now you've seen Perrin in action huh, think you've still got more to go there though

 

You should be able to make a couple of assumptions about Slayer by the end of this book

 

I actually really like Gawyn, mostly from him pre-stilling of Suian and Leanne, just kinda frustrated by him most of the series lol. He's an excellent swordsman, despite being beaten by Mat - it just means Mat is better.

[Sid]

I remember reading about when Siuan and Leane got stilled and deposed and thinking 'Can they do that?' It seems that yes, they can in fact do that.

 

Mat's been described as having the fastest hands that Thom Merrilin has ever seen (which is saying something), is incredibly lucky, and had the fact that Gawyn and Galad were frankly disbelieving that he could possibly win at the beginning going for him in their fight. Gawyn is actually a very talented swordsman, Mat is a very talented fighter with a quarterstaff, and swords are just at a disadvantage in that scenario (especially practice swords). The man widely considered the best swordsman ever was defeated by someone with a quarterstaff.

 

Ha, I love how so much happens in TSR, plenty left to go...

[Phenom]

I remember reading about when Siuan and Leane got stilled and deposed and thinking 'Can they do that?' It seems that yes, they can in fact do that.

 

Mat's been described as having the fastest hands that Thom Merrilin has ever seen (which is saying something), is incredibly lucky, and had the fact that Gawyn and Galad were frankly disbelieving that he could possibly win at the beginning going for him in their fight. Gawyn is actually a very talented swordsman, Mat is a very talented fighter with a quarterstaff, and swords are just at a disadvantage in that scenario (especially practice swords). The man widely considered the best swordsman ever was defeated by someone with a quarterstaff.

 

Ha, I love how so much happens in TSR, plenty left to go...

Yes, I get that. But Gawyn just changed so much. He didn't strike me as the guy who would do that at all. If anything, he sounded something like a push-over. Then he goes and gathers all of his little guys and kills two Warders (I'm assuming he didn't do it himself) that were his teachers. That's just a big change for him. Did he hate Siuan that much?

 

BTW, I'm interested in Logain's role from now on.

[Whatsie]

 

About the Seanchen - you'll see!

I think you mean to say "RAFO"

 

- Sheriam Sedia a Black Ajah!? Verin Sedai a Black Ajah!? I guess I'll have to find out. ;)

Without spoiling anything, all I will say is that I liked how this was finally addressed. RAFO ;)

 

Yes, I get that. But Gawyn just changed so much. He didn't strike me as the guy who would do that at all. If anything, he sounded something like a push-over. Then he goes and gathers all of his little guys and kills two Warders (I'm assuming he didn't do it himself) that were his teachers. That's just a big change for him. Did he hate Siuan that much?

As far as I know, he did kill them himself. He may not have been mature enough to "be a man" and stand up for himself yet, but he was still a very skilled swordsman. One thing that I usually forget is that many of the characters in the series are in their late teens to mid twenties. They are still growing up and maturing in many ways. I don't think this is in an way a spoiler, but regarding the entire series timeline:

 

 

The entire thing only takes place over 2 years or so.

 

 

 

Also - TSR might be my favorite book of the series, or maybe Crown of Swords. I love reading this thread as you go through. It takes me back

[T00thbrush]

Yes, I get that. But Gawyn just changed so much. He didn't strike me as the guy who would do that at all. If anything, he sounded something like a push-over. Then he goes and gathers all of his little guys and kills two Warders (I'm assuming he didn't do it himself) that were his teachers. That's just a big change for him. Did he hate Siuan that much?

 

Gawyn is still a pushover, IMHO. Elaida spreads some lies about Siuan being a traitor, Gawyn believes it all and fights for Elaida. This decision reflects pretty poor judgment, probably due to the fact that Gawyn being such a pushover is unable to think for himself properly, and is quite gullible. Not to mention that despite siding with Elaide, he does let Siuan and Leane go. This can be interpreted as mercy (which it may well be), but I also see it as lack of backbone and being a pushover again. Gawyn is a pretty consistent character in that way - he begins by following Elayne around, then follows Elaide, then gets confused and does not much with his Younglings for a while, then follows Egwene around. It's pretty depressing.

[Shard]

You know it is strange about Gawyn and I always felt it was majorly turn coat of him to do it. There are theory's that he got influenced by someone, but it's just speculation. I personally think he choose Eliadia over Suian because he knew Eliada longer and thought he could get results with her. He didn't trust Suian at all and frankly Suian gave very little reason for him to do so. I think Gawyn made a desperate gambit that he would find his sister and Egwene with Eliada's help and he bet wrong. For me I thought it was really weird after this I began to like the Lawful Good Galad more then Gawyn. Finally I will close by saying that Love can make people extremely stupid.

 

Glad you enjoyed TSR, that was my second fav of the series, the favorite is book 5. I really loved the pacing and the tormenting jumping from POV to POV just as each one got really suspenseful.

 

I guess I'm one of the few that always liked and pitted Rand, he's got a tough lot so I can really understand why he's so stressed out. TSR was where I felt Rand was really taking the reins of his own destiny and not allowing others to lead him by the nose. Of course that kind of things can back fire as well...

[Sid]

... you do realize that Phenom is posting his thoughts as he reads the series for the first time, right? Please try to refrain (in this thread) from talking about things that happen further along in the series than he's read.

[username13]

... you do realize that Phenom is posting his thoughts as he reads the series for the first time, right? Please try to refrain (in this thread) from talking about things that happen further along in the series than he's read.

 

Yes, remember he just thinks Bela's just a horse now instead of a ta'veran... OK, already regretting posting this, could derail the whole thing

[Shard]

... you do realize that Phenom is posting his thoughts as he reads the series for the first time, right? Please try to refrain (in this thread) from talking about things that happen further along in the series than he's read.

 

I haven't mentioned anything that is further along in the series.

[Sid]

I haven't mentioned anything that is further along in the series.

When I was typing my response your post hadn't shown up for me yet. I was referring to the post before yours.

[T00thbrush]

Sorry about that, won't happen again.

 

You know it is strange about Gawyn and I always felt it was majorly turn coat of him to do it. There are theory's that he got influenced by someone, but it's just speculation. I personally think he choose Eliadia over Suian because he knew Eliada longer and thought he could get results with her. He didn't trust Suian at all and frankly Suian gave very little reason for him to do so. I think Gawyn made a desperate gambit that he would find his sister and Egwene with Eliada's help and he bet wrong. For me I thought it was really weird after this I began to like the Lawful Good Galad more then Gawyn. Finally I will close by saying that Love can make people extremely stupid.

 

Pretty much agree with all your points actually. I've come to really enjoy Galad's character, and I think the main reason he cops flak is that we always see him through Elayne and Gawyn's eyes, and so readers' opinion of the "Lawful Good Galad" is heavily colored and influenced by other characters' PoV. This is actually another reason why I do not like Elayne & Gawyn, their opinion of Galad (and especially tendency to flaunt this opinion as much as possible) seems biased, maybe even mean-spirited. The man has done nothing wrong, has lost his heritage, lost both his parents and cares for his half siblings. But he is hated. Strange.

[NetSlider]

I remember reading about when Siuan and Leane got stilled and deposed and thinking 'Can they do that?' It seems that yes, they can in fact do that.

 

Mat's been described as having the fastest hands that Thom Merrilin has ever seen (which is saying something), is incredibly lucky, and had the fact that Gawyn and Galad were frankly disbelieving that he could possibly win at the beginning going for him in their fight. Gawyn is actually a very talented swordsman, Mat is a very talented fighter with a quarterstaff, and swords are just at a disadvantage in that scenario (especially practice swords). The man widely considered the best swordsman ever was defeated by someone with a quarterstaff.

 

Ha, I love how so much happens in TSR, plenty left to go...

Yes, I get that. But Gawyn just changed so much. He didn't strike me as the guy who would do that at all. If anything, he sounded something like a push-over. Then he goes and gathers all of his little guys and kills two Warders (I'm assuming he didn't do it himself) that were his teachers. That's just a big change for him. Did he hate Siuan that much?

 

BTW, I'm interested in Logain's role from now on.

 

 

So far I really like your train of thought on many different things (though of course they are not all true)

 

Oh, and I told you Mat is not too bad, just wait, he gets better and better.

 

 

[Phenom]

I just finished TSR! Amazing ending as always, Mr. Jordan.

 

- Nynaeve should've finished off the Forsaken. You can't just leave her like that. Her power is amazing, though.

- I'm glad that we know that all Seanchan aren't the same. Egeanin is pretty likable, IMO.

- Domon + Egeanin?

- I wonder if that a'dan type thing will remain or even reach the bottom of the ocean like Domon plans.

- I wish they make a movie just so I could see the different types of clothingthat the women seem to use. Jordan seems to really enjoy describing how tight they are. lol

- Perrin is a boss right now. Everyone rallied to him. I'm glad he shot Luc/Slayer/Lan's sibling (maybe).

- I used to hate Faile and now she's one of my favorite characters. My eyes were watery when she came back for Perrin with reinforcements.

- So how did Faile tell the other people (from Watch Hill, I believe) to come aid Edmond's Field? I know she rode to Deven Ride instead of Caemlyn, but what about the other people who came? When did she deliver a messae?

- Aram is likable now, IMO. Good swardsman.

- Chiad + Gaul? So does that mean that Gual is going to marry both since they're first-sisters?

- I would've loved to see the heron-grade swordsman Tam fight or at least wish Jordan would've described him fighting.

- So it was Asmodean who put the dragons in Couladin's arms? Does that make him a Darkfriend?

- I would've never guessed Asmodean was the gleeman.

- Lol at Lanfear as the fat lady.

- The battle in Rhuidean was epic. That little Buddah did help Rand out.

- I wonder what will happen to the Aiel who ran after Rand told them of their past.

- Rand has access to the sa'angreal. Wow.

- Rand is no longer emo and honestly he's a badass right now. He's making all the right moves.

- I have a feeling Aviendha is the third woman who Min saw.

- So Rand sapped all of the Dark One's influence out of Asmodean? Badass indeed.

- So it was Lanfear who opened the Dark One's prison which brought the end of the Age of Legends?

- Rand + Aiel army will be tough to stop.

- I have a feeling we haven't seen the last of the Shindo.

[username13]

I just finished TSR! Amazing ending as always, Mr. Jordan.

 

- Nynaeve should've finished off the Forsaken. You can't just leave her like that. Her power is amazing, though.

- I'm glad that we know that all Seanchan aren't the same. Egeanin is pretty likable, IMO.

- Domon + Egeanin?

- I wonder if that a'dan type thing will remain or even reach the bottom of the ocean like Domon plans.

- I wish they make a movie just so I could see the different types of clothingthat the women seem to use. Jordan seems to really enjoy describing how tight they are. lol

- Perrin is a boss right now. Everyone rallied to him. I'm glad he shot Luc/Slayer/Lan's sibling (maybe).

- I used to hate Faile and now she's one of my favorite characters. My eyes were watery when she came back for Perrin with reinforcements.

- So how did Faile tell the other people (from Watch Hill, I believe) to come aid Edmond's Field? I know she rode to Deven Ride instead of Caemlyn, but what about the other people who came? When did she deliver a messae?

- Aram is likable now, IMO. Good swardsman.

- Chiad + Gaul? So does that mean that Gual is going to marry both since they're first-sisters?

- I would've loved to see the heron-grade swordsman Tam fight or at least wish Jordan would've described him fighting.

- So it was Asmodean who put the dragons in Couladin's arms? Does that make him a Darkfriend?

- I would've never guessed Asmodean was the gleeman.

- Lol at Lanfear as the fat lady.

- The battle in Rhuidean was epic. That little Buddah did help Rand out.

- I wonder what will happen to the Aiel who ran after Rand told them of their past.

- Rand has access to the sa'angreal. Wow.

- Rand is no longer emo and honestly he's a badass right now. He's making all the right moves.

- I have a feeling Aviendha is the third woman who Min saw.

- So Rand sapped all of the Dark One's influence out of Asmodean? Badass indeed.

- So it was Lanfear who opened the Dark One's prison which brought the end of the Age of Legends?

- Rand + Aiel army will be tough to stop.

- I have a feeling we haven't seen the last of the Shindo.

 

Yup, pretty epic Two Rivers fight huh, though you're right, would have loved to see Tam in action that day

 

Remember when the random farmer arrived at the Two Rivers just to die and say "We're coming" and Perrin thought that was just a family who left it insanely late to make their way to one of the towns in the Two Rivers? That was Failes clue that the other town was coming to give aid, she didn't send any message to them. That's why she got the aid from the other towns.

 

Yes I was surprised at the Asmodean reveal also

 

RE: Asmodean and Couladin I'm afraid I'm gonna have to RAFO that one, but it's revealed in book five, so not a long wait.

 

Rands still in the Aiel Waste at end of book four/start of book five so plenty more Aiel related stuff to come for the Aiel who couldn't accept what Rand said and the Shaido, so I can't say anything regarding that either sorry, you shouldn't be disappointed though.

 

There's been some speculation and questions thrown at RJ about The Black Cords and their exact function, but suffice to say, yes Asmodeans connection the Dark One is now gone

 

Re: Lanfeear and The Bore. Yes Lanfear was one of the researchers who opened The Bore. She and a man were the two in charge, can't tell you what happened to the man though, it comes up much later in the series. As for Lanfears intentions, it wasn't evil in intent, they were trying to find a source of power available to both male and female. Lanfear goes dark later in the War of Power, possibly in The Collapse.

[Sid]

TSR really had it all, didn't it? Still my favorite in the series. But there's not a lot of a dropoff in the next books either, they're my third and second favorites, respectively.

 

I do have to warn you that Perrin isn't nearly as prominent in book five as he was in book four. It's still a great book though.

Quite a few memorable scenes of epic proportions. Yet despite that, my favorite scene is likely one that involves someone no longer playing their instrument...

I hope you enjoy TFoH as much as I did and continue to post your thoughts as you go.

[trench]

Congrats on finishing tSR! Its always been my favorite book in the series, and was the one that took me from just liking the series into full on fanboy mode.

 

RE Perrin: The battle of the Two Rivers is the best battle in the series IMO, although its debatable as to which is the best. Perrin just has more MoA's than you can shake 2 sticks at in this book.

 

RE Seanchan: I love RJ's ability to make totally reprehensible cultures, such as the Seanchan, and show how they have many traits which redeem them. Lots of folks say there is no gray areas in this series, and I always point right to the Seanchan in rebuttal.

 

RE Chaid + Gaul: Yes, if they were to get married he would have to marry both of them, but in Aiel culture it will be the women who ask him.

 

Hope you continue to enjoy this series, I have really enjoyed your updates, thanks for letting us tag along.

[Phenom]

No problem guys! You guys are great help and thankfully you don't spoil the series for me. :) I understand Gawyn's decision better now.

 

Just read the prologue to TFoH and I can already tell it's going to be a great book. Elaida not getting any respect from the other Aes Sedai is awesome. Serves her right. Interesting how Padan Fain is trying to worm his way into the White Tower. Can't they feel the evil? I'm also guessing that it's at least a few months after the end of tSR.

[NetSlider]

Phenom, how's your reading coming along?

[Whatsie]

I don't know how to quote on the mobile board, but regarding your question about Padan Fain... AS & Warders can sense shadowspawn, which he definitely isn't. He is just... Something else. I THINK the description I'm thinking of, which sort of explains what happened to him, was in tGH. But I'm not sure, so I can't spoil it here.

 

As far as time lines are concerned, you could (CAREFULLY) check sevenspokes.net. I think that was the site with the great timeline. I would be very cautious of spoilers, though.

[Phenom]

I don't know how to quote on the mobile board, but regarding your question about Padan Fain... AS & Warders can sense shadowspawn, which he definitely isn't. He is just... Something else. I THINK the description I'm thinking of, which sort of explains what happened to him, was in tGH. But I'm not sure, so I can't spoil it here.

 

As far as time lines are concerned, you could (CAREFULLY) check sevenspokes.net. I think that was the site with the great timeline. I would be very cautious of spoilers, though.

Yeah, I learned about Mordred and stuff, but didn't Moiraine feel some evil in him when he was in Fal Dara? Agreed about sevenspokes, but once I look I can't stop looking and then I usually find out information that I shouldn't yet. Love the website though.

 

As for my reading, I started off really well, but it all slowed down. I'm about 1/5th through the book and not too much has gone on IMO, maybe I'm missing something.

 

- Aviendha loves Rand that much is certain.

- Interesting how Rand speaks as Lews Therin to Lanfear. So he is Lews Therin!

- Rand using belafire is badass. How can he be stopped?

- Couladin heading to the "Wetlands"? Damn that sucks! I wonder who the other clans (the ones who didn't go to Rhuidean) are with?

- Moiraine succumbs to what Rand wants...yes!

- So Elaida wants Elayne back in the WT. It's interesting how Nynaeve and her still think Suian is in charge.

[moratcorlm]

If you want just the timeline, check here. TFOH starts at around day 500, during the year 999NE (the next page).