The Other 5 Ages and Other Powers

[didymos]

Since 'even myth is long forgotten', how do the inhabitants of Randland know about the Wheel and the 7 Ages?

 

Because people had figured that out already, probably in the AoL, and the knowledge managed to not get lost and persisted into the present. In other words: 'cause they haven't forgotten it yet. Just like all sorts of other stuff they still know about that originated in prior Ages.

 

Besides, that whole "The Wheel of Time turns, blah, blah" routine doesn't necessarily mean that every single little thing must be and is forgotten with a full turn of the Wheel. I don't see any reason to assume we must take it so literally as that, as opposed to, say, taking it as a reasonably accurate but somewhat poetically licensed primer on WoT cosmography.

[FarShainMael]

@Elend: are you suggesting that the Wheel is a product of Ishy's TP-fevered imagination??

 

(JK? Even I am not sure..)

[haloun]

when the first age comes again the entire pattern isnt destroyed and rebuilt, it simply starts over. mayan calendar kinda thing. so the people of the first age would have legends of the seventh age as their legends and legends of the sixth as their myths much like the myths of Thoms moon landing and such.

[Abutt]

when the first age comes again the entire pattern isnt destroyed and rebuilt, it simply starts over. mayan calendar kinda thing. so the people of the first age would have legends of the seventh age as their legends and legends of the sixth as their myths much like the myths of Thoms moon landing and such.

Well, thats not necessarily true, here is why: What is the first age? Do you mean the age before the Age of Legends? because the "Third Age" is the current age, so that would lead me to believe that you mean the age before the Age of Legends is the first age. But, there is nothing known about the "first age" nothing at all. If you mean some other age, which age? There is no proof that the world is only "broken" once in a cycle; the breaking of the world could take place at the end of every age for all we know. Thats what im getting at, there is almost nothing set in stone about the other ages, other than that there are seven of them. The rest is up for speculation. Which is what this thread is about.

[fborch]

We do know some things about the first age though. Mostly from the stories told by Thom in EoTW. quote from the wiki:

 

The story of Lenn, who flew to the moon in the belly of an eagle made of fire, and his daughter Salya who walked among the stars. Jordan has confirmed these to be references to John Glenn and Sally Ride. Among the first words uttered by Neil Armstrong on the first moon landing were "The eagle has landed."

Mosk the Giant, who wielded a lance of fire which could reach around the world, and his wars with Elsbet, the Queen of All. Mosk may refer to Moscow, and the Cold War.

Materese the Healer, Mother of the Wondrous Ind, most likely refers to Mother Teresa.

 

So it's speculated that the first age is our world.

[Elend]

@Elend: are you suggesting that the Wheel is a product of Ishy's TP-fevered imagination??

 

(JK? Even I am not sure..)

 

No. It does well to remember that Ishamael is, and always has been, a genius. Which of the Forsaken determined the Dark One's true end-game, for instance? Ishamael. He grew insane due to over-exposure to the True Power, but even while insane he still managed things like the War of the Hundred Years and the Trolloc Wars.

 

The theories related to cyclical time were a product of Ishamael and I'd bet he's correct within the WoTverse. Its just he was the one to "rediscover" it if you will.

 

Of course he may not have but simply been involved with expanding upon the theory. Part of his insanity is partly due to drawing too deeply upon the well of knowledge, as well.

 

Also, recall he had three names. The third name was only given to those who had great accomplishments, not to just powerful channelers. Lanfear, for instance, had only two. The third name, I think, involved Ishamael's theories.

[Abutt]

We do know some things about the first age though. Mostly from the stories told by Thom in EoTW. quote from the wiki:

 

The story of Lenn, who flew to the moon in the belly of an eagle made of fire, and his daughter Salya who walked among the stars. Jordan has confirmed these to be references to John Glenn and Sally Ride. Among the first words uttered by Neil Armstrong on the first moon landing were "The eagle has landed."

Mosk the Giant, who wielded a lance of fire which could reach around the world, and his wars with Elsbet, the Queen of All. Mosk may refer to Moscow, and the Cold War.

Materese the Healer, Mother of the Wondrous Ind, most likely refers to Mother Teresa.

 

So it's speculated that the first age is our world.

Oh... I had completely forgotten about the stories that Thom had told... That is interesting and it would make since. Obviously the "lance of fire which could reach around the world" were nukes. So that leads me to believe that Russia had a war with "the queen of all" who could be anyone, leading to the destruction of earth; but, left one small part not obliterated, which must be where the series takes place, "Randland".

 

But then theres the question: how were people able to start channeling, and why couldn't people channel before?

[Durinax]

We do know some things about the first age though. Mostly from the stories told by Thom in EoTW. quote from the wiki:

 

The story of Lenn, who flew to the moon in the belly of an eagle made of fire, and his daughter Salya who walked among the stars. Jordan has confirmed these to be references to John Glenn and Sally Ride. Among the first words uttered by Neil Armstrong on the first moon landing were "The eagle has landed."

Mosk the Giant, who wielded a lance of fire which could reach around the world, and his wars with Elsbet, the Queen of All. Mosk may refer to Moscow, and the Cold War.

Materese the Healer, Mother of the Wondrous Ind, most likely refers to Mother Teresa.

 

So it's speculated that the first age is our world.

Oh... I had completely forgotten about the stories that Thom had told... That is interesting and it would make since. Obviously the "lance of fire which could reach around the world" were nukes. So that leads me to believe that Russia had a war with "the queen of all" who could be anyone, leading to the destruction of earth; but, left one small part not obliterated, which must be where the series takes place, "Randland".

 

But then theres the question: how were people able to start channeling, and why couldn't people channel before?

could be explained as a genetic mutation or simple evolution

[Abutt]

We do know some things about the first age though. Mostly from the stories told by Thom in EoTW. quote from the wiki:

 

The story of Lenn, who flew to the moon in the belly of an eagle made of fire, and his daughter Salya who walked among the stars. Jordan has confirmed these to be references to John Glenn and Sally Ride. Among the first words uttered by Neil Armstrong on the first moon landing were "The eagle has landed."

Mosk the Giant, who wielded a lance of fire which could reach around the world, and his wars with Elsbet, the Queen of All. Mosk may refer to Moscow, and the Cold War.

Materese the Healer, Mother of the Wondrous Ind, most likely refers to Mother Teresa.

 

So it's speculated that the first age is our world.

Oh... I had completely forgotten about the stories that Thom had told... That is interesting and it would make since. Obviously the "lance of fire which could reach around the world" were nukes. So that leads me to believe that Russia had a war with "the queen of all" who could be anyone, leading to the destruction of earth; but, left one small part not obliterated, which must be where the series takes place, "Randland".

 

But then theres the question: how were people able to start channeling, and why couldn't people channel before?

could be explained as a genetic mutation or simple evolution

 

Well, I dont think it has anything to do with genetic mutation or simple evolution because of this:

Jordan said: “I dont think I have said if you are born with the spark you would have the have the spark again. I have said if you were born with the ability to channel, to learn or with the spark, you will, when your soul is born again, you will have the ability again, whether with the spark or without….”

That makes me believe that people that in past lives had the ability to channel started to be born again while for a while, no people with the ability to channel were born.

[didymos]

Oh... I had completely forgotten about the stories that Thom had told... That is interesting and it would make since. Obviously the "lance of fire which could reach around the world" were nukes. So that leads me to believe that Russia had a war with "the queen of all" who could be anyone, leading to the destruction of earth; but, left one small part not obliterated, which must be where the series takes place, "Randland".

 

Elsbet, Queen of All is likely a corruption of Elizabeth, who really helped set the the stage for the eventual British Empire. I wouldn't try taking those fragments and constructing any sort of timeline or history from them. Keep in mind that "Anla, the Wise Counselor" is a gag reference to Ann Landers, advice columnist. Also: the current distribution of real estate is largely the result of the Breaking, which is to say the crazy male Aes Sedai, and not hypothetical wars of prior Ages. The world during the AoL looked completely different. And, um, you do realize that where the books take place is only a small part of the inhabited world, right? Seanchan (which we've seen glimpses of and heard plenty about) is an entirely separate (and non-obliterated) continent, for instance.

[Agitel]

Oh... I had completely forgotten about the stories that Thom had told... That is interesting and it would make since. Obviously the "lance of fire which could reach around the world" were nukes. So that leads me to believe that Russia had a war with "the queen of all" who could be anyone, leading to the destruction of earth; but, left one small part not obliterated, which must be where the series takes place, "Randland".

 

Elsbet, Queen of All is likely a corruption of Elizabeth, who really helped set the the stage for the eventual British Empire. I wouldn't try taking those fragments and constructing any sort of timeline or history from them. Keep in mind that "Anla, the Wise Counselor" is a gag reference to Ann Landers, advice columnist. Also: the current distribution of real estate is largely the result of the Breaking, which is to say the crazy male Aes Sedai, and not hypothetical wars of prior Ages. The world during the AoL looked completely different. And, um, you do realize that where the books take place is only a small part of the inhabited world, right? Seanchan (which we've seen glimpses of and heard plenty about) is an entirely separate (and non-obliterated) continent, for instance.

 

The world prior to the Breaking looked very similar to our modern geography, I'm convinced. I made a thread on the geography of Randland and relating it to our world awhile ago. Seanchan is what happened to North and South America, there were people channeling over there who broke the world, too. Rather than search for the thread I'll just link to a photobucket that has some of the images from it. http://s963.photobucket.com/albums/ae117/Agitel/. There have also been maps of Seanchan released, and maps of the entire world, even.

 

My guess is that the world will break again. Just as their legends in the WoTverse are based on our world, the cyclical nature means that our legends and mythologies are based on theirs. One universal mythology that exists is one of a Great Flood. I also find the idea of the Tower of Babel (everyone speaking one language then that changing) to be relevant to the WoTverse, as things yet to come/already having happened that will reshape the world again.

 

Ah well. I'm out of time.

[Abutt]

Oh... I had completely forgotten about the stories that Thom had told... That is interesting and it would make since. Obviously the "lance of fire which could reach around the world" were nukes. So that leads me to believe that Russia had a war with "the queen of all" who could be anyone, leading to the destruction of earth; but, left one small part not obliterated, which must be where the series takes place, "Randland".

 

Elsbet, Queen of All is likely a corruption of Elizabeth, who really helped set the the stage for the eventual British Empire. I wouldn't try taking those fragments and constructing any sort of timeline or history from them. Keep in mind that "Anla, the Wise Counselor" is a gag reference to Ann Landers, advice columnist. Also: the current distribution of real estate is largely the result of the Breaking, which is to say the crazy male Aes Sedai, and not hypothetical wars of prior Ages. The world during the AoL looked completely different. And, um, you do realize that where the books take place is only a small part of the inhabited world, right? Seanchan (which we've seen glimpses of and heard plenty about) is an entirely separate (and non-obliterated) continent, for instance.

 

The world prior to the Breaking looked very similar to our modern geography, I'm convinced. I made a thread on the geography of Randland and relating it to our world awhile ago. Seanchan is what happened to North and South America, there were people channeling over there who broke the world, too. Rather than search for the thread I'll just link to a photobucket that has some of the images from it. http://s963.photobucket.com/albums/ae117/Agitel/. There have also been maps of Seanchan released, and maps of the entire world, even.

 

My guess is that the world will break again. Just as their legends in the WoTverse are based on our world, the cyclical nature means that our legends and mythologies are based on theirs. One universal mythology that exists is one of a Great Flood. I also find the idea of the Tower of Babel (everyone speaking one language then that changing) to be relevant to the WoTverse, as things yet to come/already having happened that will reshape the world again.

 

Ah well. I'm out of time.

Thats really interesting, I like that idea. The only problem I have with it, is that Randland is really unproportional to the part of our world that it is being compared to.

[Agitel]

Oh... I had completely forgotten about the stories that Thom had told... That is interesting and it would make since. Obviously the "lance of fire which could reach around the world" were nukes. So that leads me to believe that Russia had a war with "the queen of all" who could be anyone, leading to the destruction of earth; but, left one small part not obliterated, which must be where the series takes place, "Randland".

 

Elsbet, Queen of All is likely a corruption of Elizabeth, who really helped set the the stage for the eventual British Empire. I wouldn't try taking those fragments and constructing any sort of timeline or history from them. Keep in mind that "Anla, the Wise Counselor" is a gag reference to Ann Landers, advice columnist. Also: the current distribution of real estate is largely the result of the Breaking, which is to say the crazy male Aes Sedai, and not hypothetical wars of prior Ages. The world during the AoL looked completely different. And, um, you do realize that where the books take place is only a small part of the inhabited world, right? Seanchan (which we've seen glimpses of and heard plenty about) is an entirely separate (and non-obliterated) continent, for instance.

 

What do you mean by disproportional? It's a pretty good fit, follows the contours of higher altitudes pretty well from France down through northern Africa and all.

 

The world prior to the Breaking looked very similar to our modern geography, I'm convinced. I made a thread on the geography of Randland and relating it to our world awhile ago. Seanchan is what happened to North and South America, there were people channeling over there who broke the world, too. Rather than search for the thread I'll just link to a photobucket that has some of the images from it. http://s963.photobucket.com/albums/ae117/Agitel/. There have also been maps of Seanchan released, and maps of the entire world, even.

 

My guess is that the world will break again. Just as their legends in the WoTverse are based on our world, the cyclical nature means that our legends and mythologies are based on theirs. One universal mythology that exists is one of a Great Flood. I also find the idea of the Tower of Babel (everyone speaking one language then that changing) to be relevant to the WoTverse, as things yet to come/already having happened that will reshape the world again.

 

Ah well. I'm out of time.

Thats really interesting, I like that idea. The only problem I have with it, is that Randland is really unproportional to the part of our world that it is being compared to.

[Agitel]

Oh... I had completely forgotten about the stories that Thom had told... That is interesting and it would make since. Obviously the "lance of fire which could reach around the world" were nukes. So that leads me to believe that Russia had a war with "the queen of all" who could be anyone, leading to the destruction of earth; but, left one small part not obliterated, which must be where the series takes place, "Randland".

 

Elsbet, Queen of All is likely a corruption of Elizabeth, who really helped set the the stage for the eventual British Empire. I wouldn't try taking those fragments and constructing any sort of timeline or history from them. Keep in mind that "Anla, the Wise Counselor" is a gag reference to Ann Landers, advice columnist. Also: the current distribution of real estate is largely the result of the Breaking, which is to say the crazy male Aes Sedai, and not hypothetical wars of prior Ages. The world during the AoL looked completely different. And, um, you do realize that where the books take place is only a small part of the inhabited world, right? Seanchan (which we've seen glimpses of and heard plenty about) is an entirely separate (and non-obliterated) continent, for instance.

 

 

The world prior to the Breaking looked very similar to our modern geography, I'm convinced. I made a thread on the geography of Randland and relating it to our world awhile ago. Seanchan is what happened to North and South America, there were people channeling over there who broke the world, too. Rather than search for the thread I'll just link to a photobucket that has some of the images from it. http://s963.photobucket.com/albums/ae117/Agitel/. There have also been maps of Seanchan released, and maps of the entire world, even.

 

My guess is that the world will break again. Just as their legends in the WoTverse are based on our world, the cyclical nature means that our legends and mythologies are based on theirs. One universal mythology that exists is one of a Great Flood. I also find the idea of the Tower of Babel (everyone speaking one language then that changing) to be relevant to the WoTverse, as things yet to come/already having happened that will reshape the world again.

 

Ah well. I'm out of time.

Thats really interesting, I like that idea. The only problem I have with it, is that Randland is really unproportional to the part of our world that it is being compared to.

 

What do you mean by disproportional? It's a pretty good fit, follows the contours of higher altitudes pretty well from France down through northern Africa and all, plus the distances match what we've been told.

[Abutt]

What do you mean by disproportional? It's a pretty good fit, follows the contours of higher altitudes pretty well from France down through northern Africa and all, plus the distances match what we've been told.

I mean distance, it seems disproportional. I could be wrong but, the distance just doesn't feel right.

[Hunter]

What do you mean by disproportional? It's a pretty good fit, follows the contours of higher altitudes pretty well from France down through northern Africa and all, plus the distances match what we've been told.

I mean distance, it seems disproportional. I could be wrong but, the distance just doesn't feel right.

 

 

Also, what happened to the rest of Africa?

[Abutt]

What do you mean by disproportional? It's a pretty good fit, follows the contours of higher altitudes pretty well from France down through northern Africa and all, plus the distances match what we've been told.

I mean distance, it seems disproportional. I could be wrong but, the distance just doesn't feel right.

 

 

Also, what happened to the rest of Africa?

 

I'm not sure. Maybe nukes just destroyed it completely, or maybe it was just split and some of it still remains, far out in the ocean. Or possibly both, but its hard to speculate on something that is already speculation, eh.

[Agitel]

Africa was likely obliterated during the Breaking, with its remnants becoming the isles of the Sea Folk, which to my understanding are pretty extensive. The location of the Land of Madmen (or is it Madness) may also have to do with it. For those thinking that Randland is disproportional to the rest of the continent, I assume you lack a sense of scale as to how big Randland is, 3500 miles across from the Spine to the Aryth Ocean at its widest, and it was over 2000 miles from the blightborder to the coast of Tear, which matches up near perfectly with the areas of the globe I highlighted. Not only that, but one only has to Google images Randland to see pretty official maps of the entire continent or even the world (including Seanchan). The equator crosses Shara in the same place it crosses southeast Asia, the shape of the land is very similar to the islands that exist in the real world in that region. The Himalayas above India are also recognizable. The size of the westlands + wastes + Shara all match up to the same distance and proportional they would be in the real world with the regions I cut out. It seems pretty clear cut to me.