The Seals - PROLOGUE SPOILERS ONLY

[Luckers]

Requested by Craysh

 

I believe I have worked out what is destroying the seals (kind of obvious in the prologue if you look for it).

 

I'd like the spoilers not to include anything outside the prologue.

 

I must confess. I'm intrigued to see this.

[jdbond]

Anything built using OP can be destroyed by True Power, is that it? They clearly don't like each other.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Pretty sure its already established that the TP can destroy Cuendillar.

 

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Books and Co., Dayton, OH 11 November 2009 - Tim Kington reporting

 

Q: Was the Domination Band made of cuendillar?

A: The original one is made of cuendillar. The one that was destroyed was a copy, but one would assume that the copies are made of cuendillar too. The True Power works by destroying the Pattern. Everything that is done with it involves damage to the Pattern. For example, when we see Ishamael Travel, he does so by poking a hole in the Pattern. Cuendillar can be destroyed using the True Power. There is another way to destroy cuendillar, too.

theoryland database

[sdboka]

There is "another" way to destroy cuendillar, too? Any ideas what that is?

[maxofox]

I would suspect it is more along the lines of changing it to something else rather than actually destroying it.

[OptimusPrime]

In my oppinion the Seals are the flaw on the prison because theyre made of cuendillar but if Callandor was the new Seal, which I think was made to touch the Dark One and still get no taint, I think if Callandor was the new focus for the prison it would work because its not made of cuendillar.

[jdbond]

In my oppinion the Seals are the flaw on the prison because theyre made of cuendillar but if Callandor was the new Seal, which I think was made to touch the Dark One and still get no taint, I think if Callandor was the new focus for the prison it would work because its not made of cuendillar.

 

 

Callandor just like ceundillar was built using one power (it might just as well be cuendillat for all we know). Callandor is just a Sa'angreal. I am not sure where it says in the books that it was created to touch dark one(?).

[OptimusPrime]

In my oppinion the Seals are the flaw on the prison because theyre made of cuendillar but if Callandor was the new Seal, which I think was made to touch the Dark One and still get no taint, I think if Callandor was the new focus for the prison it would work because its not made of cuendillar.

 

 

Callandor just like ceundillar was built using one power (it might just as well be cuendillat for all we know). Callandor is just a Sa'angreal. I am not sure where it says in the books that it was created to touch dark one(?).

 

No it doesnt say that in the books, thats just my theory, that it was made able to deliver weaves, and that Rand must take a blow from it while the Dark One tries to take over his body. Rand dies, no Taint, the Dark One is crippled by Rands death, Callandor delivered a weave that resealed the Dark One away, severing him from the part of him (Shaidar?) that was trying to possess Rand.

[NetSlider]

So.....and where's Craysh again?

[sdboka]

so does this mean that Rand is going to make a new seal using TP then? because if that's the case then DO wouldnt be able to unravel that seal using TP.

[jdbond]

so does this mean that Rand is going to make a new seal using TP then? because if that's the case then DO wouldnt be able to unravel that seal using TP.

 

 

That's a million dollar question, isn't it? Rand is thinking along the line of resealing the bore but not doing the same thing LTT did. zmay be TP based ceundillar is the answer but Rand doesn't know how to make one.

[Sentinel78]

In my oppinion the Seals are the flaw on the prison because theyre made of cuendillar but if Callandor was the new Seal, which I think was made to touch the Dark One and still get no taint, I think if Callandor was the new focus for the prison it would work because its not made of cuendillar.

 

 

Callandor just like ceundillar was built using one power (it might just as well be cuendillat for all we know). Callandor is just a Sa'angreal. I am not sure where it says in the books that it was created to touch dark one(?).

 

No it doesnt say that in the books, thats just my theory, that it was made able to deliver weaves, and that Rand must take a blow from it while the Dark One tries to take over his body. Rand dies, no Taint, the Dark One is crippled by Rands death, Callandor delivered a weave that resealed the Dark One away, severing him from the part of him (Shaidar?) that was trying to possess Rand.

 

Callandor was a sa'angreal built during the War of Power. If it has any special properties, they weren't deliberate, since LTT didn't know about it and the best plan the AoL Aes Sedai could come up with to seal the Bore was the 7-seal approach or rebuild a whole bigger prison around the collapsing prison using the CK, although this would be a lot weaker because the DO would essentially be pushing against the new prison from inside the Pattern after he broke free of his original one.

 

Of course, if people actually communicated in Randland this would be a pretty simple process:

 

Cadsuane started speaking again after Tam left, "Min, following up on what we were talking about before Tam told us about Rand's near patricide, Callandor is really going to be the key I think, if we could only figure out how it operated."

 

Min crinkled her brow, "That's a tough one, the best clue I have is a note that says I'm pretty. But I'll keep reading it until I have the answers."

 

"Good idea", Cadsuane said.

 

At that moment, Elayne Trakand, Queen of Andor walked into their private suite at the Stone of Tear, with an entire entourage in tow carrying... bath supplies?

 

"I hope you all don't mind, but I'm going to have a bath", said the Queen.

 

"Of course not, we just wish we knew the secret to using Callandor to its full potential", Min said to the very pregnant woman who was apparently carrying her man's babies.

 

"Oh that's easy", she said while a young, ugly attendant, was that Olver?, washed her hair. "Just have Aviendha touch it"

[jdbond]

In my oppinion the Seals are the flaw on the prison because theyre made of cuendillar but if Callandor was the new Seal, which I think was made to touch the Dark One and still get no taint, I think if Callandor was the new focus for the prison it would work because its not made of cuendillar.

 

 

Callandor just like ceundillar was built using one power (it might just as well be cuendillat for all we know). Callandor is just a Sa'angreal. I am not sure where it says in the books that it was created to touch dark one(?).

 

No it doesnt say that in the books, thats just my theory, that it was made able to deliver weaves, and that Rand must take a blow from it while the Dark One tries to take over his body. Rand dies, no Taint, the Dark One is crippled by Rands death, Callandor delivered a weave that resealed the Dark One away, severing him from the part of him (Shaidar?) that was trying to possess Rand.

 

 

I am not sure what you are trying to say but Callandor has no power and it doesn't make anything. Weaving and ability to reach out to True source comes from channeler itself. Callandor is just an object that allows a channeler to access more of one power than they normally can, a lot more.

[OptimusPrime]

Hold on a minute. Wasnt Callandor made after Lews Therin died?

[Sentinel78]

Hold on a minute. Wasnt Callandor made after Lews Therin died?

 

No, it was encased in the Stone of Tear after he died, based on prophecies that it would be needed by the Dragon Reborn. In Book 4 Rhuidean memories, they Aes Sedai who built the Eye and the Stone of Tear said that the sword would have to wait while they took care of the Eye. I took this to mean that Callandor would have to wait to be warded at the Stone.

 

The WoT companion book has a blurb that explicitly states that Callandor was built during the War of Power, which ended when LTT raided Shayol Ghul. So Callandor was built while he was alive.

 

That being said, those Aes Sedai could possibly have modified Callandor somewhat and added some special properties, but this is pure speculation. In other words, maybe they warded Callandor after improving it somehow in a manner that we don't know yet.

[Caedn of the Taardad]

There is "another" way to destroy cuendillar, too? Any ideas what that is?

 

Not quite relevant to what you're asking, but I did ask on one particular idea similar to it when BS stopped by my local book store on his way home from tGS book signing. Question: Can cuendillar be cut/split by the edge of a Gateway? Answer: RAFO of course... That itself means nothing of course, except that that particular question may likely have some deeper meaning in the books to come.

[duncanwright]

so does this mean that Rand is going to make a new seal using TP then? because if that's the case then DO wouldnt be able to unravel that seal using TP.

 

 

That's a million dollar question, isn't it? Rand is thinking along the line of resealing the bore but not doing the same thing LTT did. zmay be TP based ceundillar is the answer but Rand doesn't know how to make one.

 

I assume that the sealing that Rand will do will be the final one until the next Bore in the AoL (though I actually don't know much about the other 4? ages that are unaccounted for until the next AOL).

If that's the case then the DO's 'prision' is accessed directly without (as far as we know) involving any seals.

This is why I like the re-weaving (and strengthening) of the pattern to keep out the DO (if he isn't somehow taken care of).

 

Also, I can only guess but I would think that the DO could stop Rand from using the TP against him (in any way including making seals) and probably undo it if it was used against him, given the control he appears to have over the TP.

[jdbond]

Weren't seals doing exactly that, strengthening the pattern?

[Naffy]

So, does anyone have any ideas what Craysh might think is exposed in the Prologue which tells us what is breaking the seals?>???????

[Corlock]

Actually, I'm pretty sure that it was stated that Callandor was made after the taint on Saidin, which is why it has that flaw it has. But I could be wrong.

 

EDIT:

 

Don't forget that LTT survived the sealing, and died after it. So that he was alive for an unspecified amount of time while saidin was tainted. It would therefore be possible for Callandor to be made while LTT was alive and Saidin was tainted. The War of Power may also have continued for a brief time after the sealing, as other darkfriends would still have been around.

[TheAngryDruid]

Interesting discussion.

 

But isn't it kind of beside the point on the seals? They are crumbling anyway. Rand (or anyone else) wouldn't need the TP to destroy them, all they need is a hammer. Moiraine could peel one with her belt knife in tFoH, and several have broken after being recovered.

 

In terms of using the TP to reseal (since it is already tainted), it is an interesting idea. But since the TP is the essence of the DO, I'd think the DO would be able to unravel it somehow. After all, it would be the DO touching himself, sealing himself in. While perhaps (perhaps) someone can get away with using the TP w/out his permission (Rand via Moridin link) or with permission in a way not authorized, I think trusting that TP seals would hold is asking an awful lot.

 

With respect to Callandor, I don't think we know when it was made. Clearly, i tSR when Rand sees it on the table, the world is already ravaged by madmen who have already destroyed entire cities. I don't see anyway to verify one way or another if LTT is dead yet or not (please correct me if I'm wrong here). In any event, the line about not knowing how to do it (or what to do) doesn't hold much weight with me. It seems an AS had a Foretelling in regards to the Eye (and possibly the Sword?) being needed at the end. What the AS divined about how, we don't know. This Foretelling may have happened AFTER LTT went mad, therefore, saying since LTT (or another AS from the time) didn't know how, so then no one could have later, doesn't make much sense. As those AS had all the knowledge, but more information (and had access to close to pure saidin as well, as the Eye hadn't been created yet).

[Tom Sawyer]

When Rand sees it on the table in the Aiel memories, LTT was already dead. The dragon banner is also there and the guy who's eyes he's seeing through wonders why it wasn't destroyed along with all other memory of that cursed man (or something to that effect). That implies that LTT already went insane and slaughtered his family and everyone hates him and is contrasted with the opinion of him as the Great Leader one or two memories later.

 

Callandor must have been around during the AoL because it seems kind of inane to make a super sa-angreal for men during a time when all the men who can channel are ripping the world apart. Also, Lanfear and Be'lal seemed to be well aware of what it was and what it could do, so I figure it was something they'd seen before.

[jdbond]

Eye of world was created by men(well they helped). These men were not mad. Same might be true for Callandor. If Callandor existed during LTT's time, he might actually have carried it to Shayol Gul which I am guessing he didn't. Remember it took Aes Sedai decades to believe that all male Aes Sedai will go crazy ultimately.

[Sentinel78]

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/50511-lanfear-mentions-two-terangreal-stronger-than-callandor/page__st__20

 

 

JWB: Was Callandor constructed during the War of Power?

RJ: Yes.

JWB: Was it used in the War of Power?

RJ: Yes, that is how the flaw was discovered.

JWB: Why didn't they ward/buffer Callandor?

RJ: The flaw with Callandor is simply a manufacturing flaw. (He went on to talk about how they were at the end of their tech age with only a few sho-wings and jo-cars left. A couple of shocklances were still around but they were not as prevalent as they had been. Anyway they had been mass producing ter'angreal, angreal, and sa'angreal, and there are bound to be flaws with the products. The flaw with Callandor is simply one such flaw.)

[Corlock]

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/50511-lanfear-mentions-two-terangreal-stronger-than-callandor/page__st__20

 

 

RJ: The flaw with Callandor is simply a manufacturing flaw. (He went on to talk about how they were at the end of their tech age with only a few sho-wings and jo-cars left. A couple of shocklances were still around but they were not as prevalent as they had been. Anyway they had been mass producing ter'angreal, angreal, and sa'angreal, and there are bound to be flaws with the products. The flaw with Callandor is simply one such flaw.)

 

This implies that it was created towards the end of the Age of Legends, during which time the Taint may have been present. RJ says it was only a manufacturing flaw, so I'll have to believe that.\, but I have my suspicions.