The Mysteries of Cyndane

[FarShainMael]

Who the bleep is FelixPax?

 

He used to post as Dida.

 

Should I be insulted? Oh, never mind.

 

I'll see if I can get some pretty pics of the UK West Country for the gallery.

 

Bye!

[Sharaman]

@FSM There are many major differences between Luc-Isam and your theory of Lanfear-Moiraine

1) Gender - it's usually important in WoT

2) Location - one occurs on GLoD's home turf a place with weird physics, the other in a different place with different weird physics.

3) Channeler- non-channeler

4) One merger uses an old body with a dual boot system and offers the ability to look like either one of the old personalities, you theorise a brand-new body with no apparent morphing ability

5)"One died, one lived" in the known merger versus both died while merging

 

To sustain your theory and answer each of these points, requires your making assumptions about the way technical things work in WoTverse- and those assumptions are made on the basis of little, if any, textual evidence or author clarifications.

 

The other theory doesn't require making any such assumptions about technicalities - we know each step is technically possible.

As to why Demandred, Arangar and Graendal, etc don't know Cyndi= Lanfear for certain, why would they?

Nobody in Wotverse disseminates info willingly.

Moiraine's letter to Thom clearly states she saw herself held captive in ToG and who could come to save her - she was unclear only on the outcome of possible rescue attempts.

Enjoy your sojourn offline!

[Silver]

Could be. Of course, it might have been not so much belief, but arrogance of the 'I'm the greatest and I'll balefire anyone who dares claim otherwise' variety.

 

 

See, I thought it could be that. But I just hit that part on my WoT reread and it doesn't read like indignant disbelief. Here's the direct quote again with the books emphasis:

 

Then the woman struck back at her, and she suffered her second shock. She was stronger than Cyndane had been before the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn held her! That was impossible; no woman could be stronger. She must have an angreal, too.

[FarShainMael]

@Sharaman: I don't think I've made unnecessary, unsustainable assumptions:

 

@FSM There are many major differences between Luc-Isam and your theory of Lanfear-Moiraine

1) Gender - it's usually important in WoT

It certainly is, but your point is unclear. Luc and Isam were both male; Lanfear and Moiraine both female. Do you suggest that males can be merged but females can't? We have absolutely no evidence that this may be the case, or that it may not be. The question is completely open.

 

 

2) Location - one occurs on GLoD's home turf a place with weird physics, the other in a different place with different weird physics.

True, apparently. But again, we know absolutely nothing about the Luc/Isam merging. The only assumption I make here is the possibility of the 'blank' being a second ToG, and the 'finns being responsible for that merging. But I agree, it's an assumption, we have no evidence for or against.

 

 

3) Channeler- non-channeler

Again, your point is unclear. Neither Luc nor Isam could channel; both Lanfear and Moiraine could; but again, we don't know if non-channellers can be merged but channellers can't, or whether channelling ability makes no difference. Another completely open question.

 

I did suggest that if L & M were merged, L's superior channelling strength may have been used to suppress the lesser-strength M in a mode similar to Compulsion. In the case of L&I, the personalities are balanced.

 

 

4) One merger uses an old body with a dual boot system and offers the ability to look like either one of the old personalities, you theorise a brand-new body with no apparent morphing ability

See above about a possible suppression effect stopping the morphing.

 

I don't see how the 'old body / new body' difference would be a problem.

 

 

5)"One died, one lived" in the known merger versus both died while merging

Or after merging. Yes it's a difference, but I'm not convinced it's a major one. An assumption I could legitimately make is that Moiraine asked the 'finns to let her keep tabs on Lanfear, and this is the way the 'finns chose to do it! Compare the price they set Mat for his 'requests'.

 

 

As to why Demandred, Arangar and Graendal, etc don't know Cyndi= Lanfear for certain, why would they?

Nobody in Wotverse disseminates info willingly.

True enough!

 

But would they know about stilling/Healing? Something like that couldn't easily be hidden. If a FS or DF got stilled/gentled and then mysteriously regained the ability to channel, eyebrows would rise.

 

On that subject, the one major objection to the Cyndane = Lanfear-stilled-Healed is that Cyndane herself doesn't know it happened, if it did:

 

Then the woman struck back at her, and she suffered her second shock. She was stronger than Cyndane had been before the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn held her! That was impossible; no woman could be stronger. She must have an angreal, too.

There is no mention here of Cyndane thinking to herself anything like 'That Healing must have weakened her more than she thought'.

 

Surely she would remember being stilled, if it had happened. Stilling is a major disaster to a channeller. Healing would relieve her feelings about it, but not make her forget them.

 

 

Moiraine's letter to Thom clearly states she saw herself held captive in ToG and who could come to save her - she was unclear only on the outcome of possible rescue attempts.

Actually, it doesn't. The text of the letter can be found here:

 

http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Moiraine's_letter_to_Thom

 

It states:

 

My dearest Thom,

 

There are many words I would like to write to you, words from my heart, but I have put this off because I knew that I must, and now there is little time. There are many things I cannot tell you lest I bring disaster, but what I can, I will. Heed carefully what I say. In a short while I will go down to the docks, and there I will confront Lanfear. How can I know that? That secret belongs to others. Suffice it that I know, and let that foreknowledge stand as proof for the rest of what I say.

 

When you receive this, you will be told that I am dead. All will believe that. I am not dead, and it may be that I shall live to my appointed years. It also may be that you and Mat Cauthon and another, a man I do not know, will try to rescue me. May, I say because it may be that you will not or cannot, or because Mat may refuse. He does not hold me in the affection you seem to, and he has his reasons which he no doubt thinks are good. If you try, it must be only you and Mat and one other. More will mean death for all. Fewer will mean death for all. Even if you come only with Mat and one other, death also may come. I have seen you try and die, one or two or all three. I have seen myself die in the attempt. I have seen all of us live and die as captives.

 

Should you decide to make the attempt anyway, young Mat knows the way to find me, yet you must not show him this letter until he asks about it. That is of the utmost importance. He must know nothing that is in this letter until he asks. Events must play out in certain ways, whatever the costs.

 

If you see Lan again, tell him that all of this is for the best. His destiny follows a different path from mine. I wish him all happiness with Nynaeve.

 

A final point. Remember what you know about the game of Snakes and Foxes. Remember, and heed.

 

It is time, and I must do what must be done.

 

May the Light illumine you and give you joy, my dearest Thom, whether or not we ever see one another again.

 

Moiraine.

I've pointed this out before. This letter only says 'I have seen all of us live and die as captives.' It says nothing about by whom, or whether as a group or separately. Moiraine may not know herself; we do know that people who pass through the rings do not retain memories of everything that happened there.

 

'Held captive in ToG' is itself an assumption, albeit a reasonable one.

 

Enjoy your sojourn offline!

I did! I've been visiting King Arthur country - Cornwall UK - including the castle and islad of Tintagel, and a place called Slaughterbridge nearby on the river Camel, which makes a good claim to be the site of the battle of Camlann. An archeological dig there has turned up evidence of considerable military presence. I may post it on a thread somewhere.

[yoniy0]

On that subject, the one major objection to the Cyndane = Lanfear-stilled-Healed is that Cyndane herself doesn't know it happened, if it did:

Then the woman struck back at her, and she suffered her second shock. She was stronger than Cyndane had been before the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn held her! That was impossible; no woman could be stronger. She must have an angreal, too.

There is no mention here of Cyndane thinking to herself anything like 'That Healing must have weakened her more than she thought'.

 

Surely she would remember being stilled, if it had happened. Stilling is a major disaster to a channeller. Healing would relieve her feelings about it, but not make her forget them.

I'm not sure why you take her reaction to mean that she wasn't Severed. She says 'stronger than [she] had been before the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn held her', meaning that she wasn't measuring Alivia's strength against her current level, but her former one. Thus, she deduced that Alivia must possess an angreal.

[Sharaman]

@Sharaman: I don't think I've made unnecessary, unsustainable assumptions:

 

You've made assumptions - each of those in isolation may be defensible but as you yourself admit, in many cases, there is no proof either way. For your theory to work, you have to assume an entire chain of things work the way you want.

 

@FSM There are many major differences between Luc-Isam and your theory of Lanfear-Moiraine

1) Gender - it's usually important in WoT

It certainly is, but your point is unclear. Luc and Isam were both male; Lanfear and Moiraine both female. Do you suggest that males can be merged but females can't? We have absolutely no evidence that this may be the case, or that it may not be. The question is completely open.

 

Yes, which means an assumption that it works for both genders, on your part.

2) Location - one occurs on GLoD's home turf a place with weird physics, the other in a different place with different weird physics.

True, apparently. But again, we know absolutely nothing about the Luc/Isam merging. The only assumption I make here is the possibility of the 'blank' being a second ToG, and the 'finns being responsible for that merging. But I agree, it's an assumption, we have no evidence for or against.

 

Again, you are assuming that it does work in two entirely different places with different weird physics.

3) Channeler- non-channeler

Again, your point is unclear. Neither Luc nor Isam could channel; both Lanfear and Moiraine could; but again, we don't know if non-channellers can be merged but channellers can't, or whether channelling ability makes no difference. Another completely open question.

 

I did suggest that if L & M were merged, L's superior channelling strength may have been used to suppress the lesser-strength M in a mode similar to Compulsion. In the case of L&I, the personalities are balanced.

 

Again we don't know if the merger thing works with two channelers (or one channeler/ one non-channeler). You make another assumption.

 

4) One merger uses an old body with a dual boot system and offers the ability to look like either one of the old personalities, you theorise a brand-new body with no apparent morphing ability

See above about a possible suppression effect stopping the morphing.

I don't see how the 'old body / new body' difference would be a problem.

We don't know that souls can be merged and put into an entirely new body. again, you are assuming that they can - no proof.

 

5)"One died, one lived" in the known merger versus both died while merging

Or after merging. Yes it's a difference, but I'm not convinced it's a major one. An assumption I could legitimately make is that Moiraine asked the 'finns to let her keep tabs on Lanfear, and this is the way the 'finns chose to do it! Compare the price they set Mat for his 'requests'.

It may or may not be an "legitimate" assumption - but you have no proof either way.

 

As to why Demandred, Arangar and Graendal, etc don't know Cyndi= Lanfear for certain, why would they?

Nobody in Wotverse disseminates info willingly.

True enough!

 

But would they know about stilling/Healing? Something like that couldn't easily be hidden. If a FS or DF got stilled/gentled and then mysteriously regained the ability to channel, eyebrows would rise.

 

Moggy and Moridin know about stilling - we have no clue about the other FS's knowledge at this point but it is reasonable to expect that, if the BA knew, Graendal and Mesaana would know. However none of them know Lanfear's exact circumstances. The other FS are puzzled because Cyndane is weaker than Lanfear was. In any case, how does the FS reaction to Cyndane being weaker affect the circumstances in which she became weaker?

 

 

On that subject, the one major objection to the Cyndane = Lanfear-stilled-Healed is that Cyndane herself doesn't know it happened, if it did:

 

Then the woman struck back at her, and she suffered her second shock. She was stronger than Cyndane had been before the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn held her! That was impossible; no woman could be stronger. She must have an angreal, too.

There is no mention here of Cyndane thinking to herself anything like 'That Healing must have weakened her more than she thought'.

 

Surely she would remember being stilled, if it had happened. Stilling is a major disaster to a channeller. Healing would relieve her feelings about it, but not make her forget them.

 

Clearly she is aware that she is weaker than she used to be - Yoniy answered this already.

 

Moiraine's letter to Thom clearly states she saw herself held captive in ToG and who could come to save her - she was unclear only on the outcome of possible rescue attempts.

Actually, it doesn't. The text of the letter can be found here:

 

http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Moiraine's_letter_to_Thom

 

It states:

 

My dearest Thom,

 

There are many words I would like to write to you, words from my heart, but I have put this off because I knew that I must, and now there is little time. There are many things I cannot tell you lest I bring disaster, but what I can, I will. Heed carefully what I say. In a short while I will go down to the docks, and there I will confront Lanfear. How can I know that? That secret belongs to others. Suffice it that I know, and let that foreknowledge stand as proof for the rest of what I say.

 

When you receive this, you will be told that I am dead. All will believe that. I am not dead, and it may be that I shall live to my appointed years. It also may be that you and Mat Cauthon and another, a man I do not know, will try to rescue me. May, I say because it may be that you will not or cannot, or because Mat may refuse. He does not hold me in the affection you seem to, and he has his reasons which he no doubt thinks are good. If you try, it must be only you and Mat and one other. More will mean death for all. Fewer will mean death for all. Even if you come only with Mat and one other, death also may come. I have seen you try and die, one or two or all three. I have seen myself die in the attempt. I have seen all of us live and die as captives.

 

Should you decide to make the attempt anyway, young Mat knows the way to find me, yet you must not show him this letter until he asks about it. That is of the utmost importance. He must know nothing that is in this letter until he asks. Events must play out in certain ways, whatever the costs.

 

If you see Lan again, tell him that all of this is for the best. His destiny follows a different path from mine. I wish him all happiness with Nynaeve.

 

A final point. Remember what you know about the game of Snakes and Foxes. Remember, and heed.

 

It is time, and I must do what must be done.

 

May the Light illumine you and give you joy, my dearest Thom, whether or not we ever see one another again.

 

Moiraine.

 

I've pointed this out before. This letter only says 'I have seen all of us live and die as captives.' It says nothing about by whom, or whether as a group or separately. Moiraine may not know herself; we do know that people who pass through the rings do not retain memories of everything that happened there.

'Held captive in ToG' is itself an assumption, albeit a reasonable one.

"Mat knows the way to find me" --- "Snake- Foxes" - very very clear where she has seen herself held captive, and by whom.

 

Enjoy your sojourn offline!

I did! I've been visiting King Arthur country - Cornwall UK - including the castle and islad of Tintagel, and a place called Slaughterbridge nearby on the river Camel, which makes a good claim to be the site of the battle of Camlann. An archeological dig there has turned up evidence of considerable military presence. I may post it on a thread somewhere.

Lovely part of the world - I had a girlfriend who lived in Truro but I was last there over 20 years ago. Glad you had a good time.

[FarShainMael]

which means an assumption that it works for both genders, on your part.

Against an assumption that it doesn't, on yours.

 

you are assuming that it does work in two entirely different places with different weird physics.

No, I'm suggesting that there may be two places (ToGs) with the same 'weird physics'.

 

Again we don't know if the merger thing works with two channelers (or one channeler/ one non-channeler). You make another assumption.

I must point out that you do, also, in assuming that the ability to channel is significant.

 

We don't know that souls can be merged and put into an entirely new body. again, you are assuming that they can - no proof.

Again, I must point out that you are assuming that they can't. Equally, no proof.

 

Re marging:

It may or may not be an "legitimate" assumption - but you have no proof either way.

True. That's what makes it an assumption!

 

how does the FS reaction to Cyndane being weaker affect the circumstances in which she became weaker?

I've already explained that. If they know about healing stilling, they wouldn't be puzzled.

 

Clearly she is aware that she is weaker than she used to be - Yoniy answered this already.

Yes she's aware that she's weaker - but as I have already explained, she does not recall being Healed, and she should.

 

"Mat knows the way to find me" --- "Snake- Foxes" - very very clear where she has seen herself held captive, and by whom.

'way' as in path, or 'way' as in method?

 

I've been spending too much time among Aes Sedai..

 

The rescue party does have to enter the ToG. What they'll find there is another matter. As I suggested earlier, that may be not Moiraine herself, but the way to get her un-merged, if such has happened.

[Sharaman]

which means an assumption that it works for both genders, on your part.

Against an assumption that it doesn't, on yours.

 

you are assuming that it does work in two entirely different places with different weird physics.

No, I'm suggesting that there may be two places (ToGs) with the same 'weird physics'.

 

Again we don't know if the merger thing works with two channelers (or one channeler/ one non-channeler). You make another assumption.

I must point out that you do, also, in assuming that the ability to channel is significant.

 

We don't know that souls can be merged and put into an entirely new body. again, you are assuming that they can - no proof.

Again, I must point out that you are assuming that they can't. Equally, no proof.

 

Re marging:

It may or may not be an "legitimate" assumption - but you have no proof either way.

True. That's what makes it an assumption!

 

how does the FS reaction to Cyndane being weaker affect the circumstances in which she became weaker?

I've already explained that. If they know about healing stilling, they wouldn't be puzzled.

 

Clearly she is aware that she is weaker than she used to be - Yoniy answered this already.

Yes she's aware that she's weaker - but as I have already explained, she does not recall being Healed, and she should.

 

"Mat knows the way to find me" --- "Snake- Foxes" - very very clear where she has seen herself held captive, and by whom.

'way' as in path, or 'way' as in method?

 

I've been spending too much time among Aes Sedai..

 

The rescue party does have to enter the ToG. What they'll find there is another matter. As I suggested earlier, that may be not Moiraine herself, but the way to get her un-merged, if such has happened.

 

No, I'm not making any assumptions -it's not my theory.

Just one of the long list of assumptions (none of which can be supported by any evidence/ pro or against) you make has to be wrong, for the entire theory to break down.

 

We do know that Blight physics and Finnland physics are different.

The Finns don't live in the Blight, time runs differently in Finnland, space is distorted in strange ways.

 

As to Lanfear remembering being healed - why do you think she doesn't recall it? She clearly knows she's been weakened and she's not puzzled by the fact. (Also, healing could be done while she's knocked out/ woozy.)

As to the FS, they may, or may not, put two disparate bits of info together, even if they all know about healing-stilling. None of them have an exact account of the circs in which Lanfear died.

[louigie15]

When Grendal first met Cyndane as I recall it was in the "New Alliances" chapter in Path of Daggers toward the last part of the chapter. Grendal was questioning who Cyndane was but also noticed that she was very strong in the power and even stronger than she was. She goes on to mention that was reare even in the Age of Legends. So I don't understand why everyone thinks Cyndane (Lanfear) has lost a lot of strength.

[Sharaman]

When Grendal first met Cyndane as I recall it was in the "New Alliances" chapter in Path of Daggers toward the last part of the chapter. Grendal was questioning who Cyndane was but also noticed that she was very strong in the power and even stronger than she was. She goes on to mention that was reare even in the Age of Legends. So I don't understand why everyone thinks Cyndane (Lanfear) has lost a lot of strength.

Graendal herself notes that Cyndane was weaker than Lanfear used to be. Cyndane in her own PoV also notes that she had been stronger before she was held by the Finns. "A lot of strength" is relative - she's weaker than she used to be.

[Haftarun8]

I thought I remembered reading a theory posted elsewhere that Cyndane's strength may be "natural" and Lanfear was stronger than any other woman could possibly be because of some sort of augmentation by the Finns. Granted the Finns can't just give someone more access to the OP naturally, but in their hoards of angreal perhaps they found one so small and inconspicuous that she could always wear? Maybe even implant one? They altered her physical appearance to make her more beautiful, why not implant something while they're at it. Others cannot sense directly when you're using an angreal, only that you're using significantly more power. If she's been this strong for ages via a tiny angreal she always uses, who would really notice? Who would dare get close enough to even try? If any of this can be debunked that's fine, I'm just trying to approach it from another angle.

 

As to why Lanfear never thinks of this or mentions it, we only get to read her thoughts on the surface. Maybe she's had this so long she thinks of it as part of herself...no need to constantly rehash in your mind how you got it.

[Sharaman]

I thought I remembered reading a theory posted elsewhere that Cyndane's strength may be "natural" and Lanfear was stronger than any other woman could possibly be because of some sort of augmentation by the Finns. Granted the Finns can't just give someone more access to the OP naturally, but in their hoards of angreal perhaps they found one so small and inconspicuous that she could always wear? Maybe even implant one? They altered her physical appearance to make her more beautiful, why not implant something while they're at it. Others cannot sense directly when you're using an angreal, only that you're using significantly more power. If she's been this strong for ages via a tiny angreal she always uses, who would really notice? Who would dare get close enough to even try? If any of this can be debunked that's fine, I'm just trying to approach it from another angle.

 

As to why Lanfear never thinks of this or mentions it, we only get to read her thoughts on the surface. Maybe she's had this so long she thinks of it as part of herself...no need to constantly rehash in your mind how you got it.

 

Yes, it's been speculated about on many forums. But we've never had any iota of textual evidence, or any statements by the authors, that Lanfear was not naturally beautiful and naturally at the top of the saidar power scale. We also have no evidence whatsoever that she had ever met the Finns, prior to falling through the doorway, while grappling with Moiraine. (In fact, we have some inconclusive evidence to the contrary since you cannot apparently enter the same Finn doorway twice though she could have gone via ToG.)

[Haftarun8]

When you put it that way it does seem unlikely. I thought there was some evidence that she had gone and came out more beautiful but I must be making that up in my head, heh. I hope this is something that does get revealed by the end of the series, or at least the Encyclopedia.

[Grig]

So I don't understand why everyone thinks Cyndane (Lanfear) has lost a lot of strength.

 

One reason the belief persists is because Brandon Sanderson thought so and said so a couple times. He has since clarified that he was wrong, of course.

[FarShainMael]

I think I'll just hang on for a month or so and see what happens..

 

[Zyntras]

The Mysteries of Cyndane

 

 

1. The Cyndane body was not as strong as Lanfear’s in the One Power.

 

This was suggested often when Cyndane first appeared weaker, and at first glance it does hold some merit in that we know it takes the Shadow some time to find suitable bodies to contain their disenfranchised Chosen—thus perhaps it is the issue of looking for a body with a strong enough ability to channel that takes the time.

 

However, if this were the case, how was it that Moridin, Osan’gar and (perhaps most importantly) Aran’gar retained their exact strength and connection to the Source? Demandred’s thoughts on Cyndane—specifically that her reduced strength made it unlikely that she was Lanfear—indicate that all three of the other Recycled Forsaken’s strength’s were exactly the same as what they had been before transmigration. It therefore seems odd that the Shadow managed to find three bodies which exactly match the strength’s of their host souls (not the least finding a woman to match a strong male channeler), and one that did not.

 

2. That saidar channelers are effected by transmigration differently to saidin channelers

 

Follow the logic from point one, one may point out that Lanfear is the only woman (the only saidar channeler) we have seen transmigrated, and that perhaps transmigration effects saidar channelers differently than saidin channelers, in which case it was the souls state, not the bodies's state which caused the loss. Lacking evidence one way or the other, its valid conjecture.

 

 

i dont think this possibility likely either;

But how do you know Moridin,Osan'gar and Aran'gar did not lose part of their strenght ? i dont remember that one of them states this by them self in one of their povs;

and all of them being saidin channelers, the only other method to determine their strength would be for another male channeler to compare: them pulling as much of the power as they can before AND after the bodyswap; and this did not happen either iirc

 

 

>> One other thing that just popped into my mind concerning the moirain/lanfear merge:

 

if this actually happed and both lanfear and moirain now exist inside Cyndane, could it be possible that moridin does not hold lanfears, but moirains spirit in a soultrap in order to supress her ? << stupid ^^ cant be ;p

[Khosann]

I think ToM tells us why Cyndane is weaker than Lanfear. I think it is a clear and obvious answer. But since no ToM spoilers here, RAFO :).

[sfgiantsfanmike]

I think ToM tells us why Cyndane is weaker than Lanfear. I think it is a clear and obvious answer. But since no ToM spoilers here, RAFO :).

 

Was going to say the same thing when I first started reading the thread.

[Simo]

oops....sorry wasn't paying attention to the Forum I was in

[Incom]

@Simo: I'm thinking the latter, but it's due to a ToM spoiler soooooo...

[Monte]

I'm going on the record as saying that a Lanfear/Moiraine merger sounds completely bogus, there's no evidence to support it, and tonnes of evidence to contradict it. We've seen Cyndane a LOT, and there is NOTHING to suggest this is remotely plausible especially considering that Moiraine is clearly still in the Tower of Ghenji waiting to be rescued, and Cyndane is clearly not, they are obviously still separate entities, defend it however you will, your logic may come across as plausible, but it's in defense of an argument with way too much evidence stating you are incorrect, with all due respect.

[plague fiend]

The Power filled him, and as it did, he seized at those three soft points, crushing them ruthlessly in fists of Spirit.

 

[LoC; 55, Dumai's Well's]

 

 

Alot of people simply say that this must then be the male method of stilling--which seems unlikely. The male shield is described the same as the female shield. If the female method of stilling is an alteration of that shield, it stands to reason that the male method would be as well.

 

But even if this is the male method of stilling, its still not the knife sharp weave stated to leave a person able to sense the True Source. Indeed, despite the fact that Rand did this to them, and is thus termed to have 'stilled' them, the effect bears far more similarity to what occurs when a ter'angreal goes wrong. He crushed flows they were maintaining, thereby over-stressing their ability and searing it out of them. Consider that against Egwene's bad experience with the broken Access Key ter'angreal

 

 

Another hint to this question comes from WH where Nynaeve is being shielded by the windfinder, she felt a soft spot in the shield and threw all of her strength at it. Maybe, if she crushed it the same way Rand did, she would have stilled the windfinder. Just another question Nynaeve should have pursued.....

[Entreri]

"I thought I remembered reading a theory posted elsewhere that Cyndane's strength may be "natural" and Lanfear was stronger than any other woman could possibly be because of some sort of augmentation by the Finns"

 

Yes, there was that. But by Lanfear's own comment, clearly very few women were as strong as her: "no woman could be stronger" and not "no woman can be as strong", the latter would apply if she was augmented.

 

Alivia could be as strong as Lanfear: "considerably stronger than Nyaneve", "maybe SOME of the Forsaken topped Alivia, but surely no one else", "she/Nynaeve" was fairly certain the other woman could overpower her EASILY, whatever she did"

 

In order to overpower someone holding the Power, one has to be so much stronger, very much so. Nyaneve is middling Forsaken female strength, only Lanfear and Grandael are stronger.

 

At least Alivia is as strong as Cyndane, but after re-reading Winter's Heart, it looks like she is as strong as Lanfear was.

[Mats Spare Hat]

and AND, she has a third nipple

 

...Mysterious!

[Thor]

Do not bring up the useless discussion of comparing Alivia to Lanfear again, too many worthless posts have been wasted on that topic with absolutely nothing concrete.

 

Anyways, I do not like how she suddenly shows up in Rand's dream. It's too corny.