The Big Unnoticed Thing

[Luckers]

I'm still trying to find the old thread, but in the meantime let discussion go here. Check out my compilation pinned at the top of the page for the current viable theories--I'll be doing an update after the Prologue comes out.

[DocBean]

Luckers,

 

I think you should add Resurrection through T'A'R.

Nyaneve witnessed it in one of those books.

 

You could say Brigette has been around in almost every book since. - Ongoing principle

It has HUGE future implications, and will definitely be an Ah Hah! moment.

I don't remember anyone talking about it earlier.

It's something we should have been talking about when we read it.

 

I think it fits all the criteria.

 

It's also a good way for Nyaneve to "heal someone 3 days dead."

[Demiandre]

I don't remember anyone talking about it earlier.

 

I remember. I don't remembzer where on the forum, but it has been discussed. I remember a good theory mentioning the silver arrow, Birgitte, and Rand's hand with T'A'R (or was it on a french forum??? I inoculated the evil of finding the BUT over the Atlantic héhé! :) )

[ChrisTrebing]

Could someone post the criteria for the big unnoticed thing, and maybe the quote? All I remember is it's mentioned in books 4-6 right?

[Luckers]

Could someone post the criteria for the big unnoticed thing, and maybe the quote? All I remember is it's mentioned in books 4-6 right?

 

It's in the compilation thread.

[Naffy]

I am excited to see what this turns out to be as I haven't the faintest idea. Its funny that he compares it to the thing in Mistborn, because I figured that out right away when Hemalurgy began to be revealed. I am reading Book 4 right now simply to see if I can pick up on something before ToM is released. The unseen eyes seem like a good idea, but I hope it is something else.

[Some_Nob]

Just reading book five and it struck me - asmodean channeled at rand after the battle where he used the power to keep up his endurance - the whole time he has been thinking that he can't trust asmodean - what if this is true and slowly causes rand the channeling sickness - I am not to sure how far in he starts getting dizzy but due to asmodeans shield prehaps what he did had a slow effect.? Sorry about any typos on phone as just had this occur to me

[Wheel of Thyme]

Hi all...

I think "Aunt_Pol" may have got the Big Unnoticed Thing but was unaware of it. In another post in a different thread she mentioned the note that Herold Fel gave to Rand regarding (we think) the seals; the note she then carried because she found it endearing; he said she was "too pretty". And, she did like Fel.

 

"Belief and order give strength; need to clear the rubble before rebuild. Dont bring girl; too pretty".

 

Maybe there is something much more to this note than meets the eye...other than the "you need to break the seals" that Min and Rand have already figured out?

 

It seems small and insignificant on its face, mentioned often, and has huge implications.

 

However Im not sure the time frame is accurate re: books 4-6. And while the note has been somewhat discussed, it was never mentioned as a candidate for it.

 

Sincerely,

Wheel of Thyme

[OptimusPrime]

Its probably well known enough by now that I think its that Ishamael returned in Taims body, but what the hell.

[metaphor]

Idon't have any theory of my own, so I'd like to comment on some of the ongoing theories from the BUT theory compilation:

 

The Remnant of a Remnant

 

Well I disagree that the shaido will be the remntants, but even if they were, what happens to the Aiel would be a consequence of other things, and not in itself have a huge impact,at least for what we are concerned. The disappearance of Aiel could have a great impact on the 4th age, but it won't be touched upon in the WOT series.

 

Melaine Slipping About Moiraine and the Rings

I don't see it as that relevant. Min herself muses that sometimes her visions of the future come true due to her actions, which were caused by her knowledge of the future. This seems one of the possible paradoxes of predicting the future. Plus, the Wise Ones explain that what they see is just a probability, their visions don't always come true exactly like they saw them, and small variations happen often. Some big event might be tied to this, but the possibilities are so vague and general, and it's not a really a mystery, that it seems to hardly fit for the BUT.

 

 

Aiel Failing the Aes Sedai

Other Thoughts/Problems: Was this ever really a prophecy, or is it just something the Aiel have come to believe. I reckon the latter.

I agree, it's probably related to the Aiel giving up the way of the leaf, which they had promised to the Aes Sedai to keep.

 

The Siswai’aman

It's certainly intriguing. I would like for Rand to have his own small army of Aiel male channelers, and the Siswai'aman are probably the first place were he'd go look for them.

But I agree with Luckers that there isn't any mystery about this one.

 

 

 

Trollocs and Myrdraal and... helicopters?

This one seems one of the more promising for being the BUT.

 

Revelation Requirements: No. We didn’t know about Trollocs and gateways at that time, so I don’t see any reason why we should have questioned this.

A big point is made of how the trollocs entered the Stone through the docks, or went to the twin rivers through the waygates. This by itself should be weird, and should make us wonder why they didn't travel. W knew, or suspected that forsaken could travel long distances in a quick manner, so why didn't they use this to move trollocs? And the mystery on how those trollocs appeared in the stone just in time to thwart the attacks on Rand and Mat should still be strange to us, if anything because of our lack of knowledge.

And with the many re-readings that many of us do it should have come up at some point.

Actually, now that I think about it, why did they save Mat? Why is the Dark One, or Greandal, interested in saving Mat? So there is another mystery there.

 

The Fade and the Hornsounder

Could this connect to the Aiel darkfriends? Rhuarc himself, or someone who could spy his dreams.

 

 

 

The Fat Man Angreal

 

The big impact could be that while Logain or Rand are figthing against Taim he suddenly gets a power up? It still shouldn't have that big of an impact, unless he wins.

 

Perrin Breaking From Rand’s ta’veren Pull in tSR

I don't think there is anything wrong with this. Mat himself has broke free from Rand's pull when it was the right time for him, and Perrin has felt the pull again when Rand needed him there. I think it's just them being connected to each other, while also having their own individual destinies to fulfill.Mat's fate was to go to Ruhidean to acquire the knowledge of battle so that he could later go own his own way.

It also relates to Min's visions in the first book, so I don't think this is the BUT.

We could also connect this to Taim appearing just in time to kill the Gray man that had gone to assassinate Rand,Although the last one could be just chalked up to the forsaken and the DO each having a different agenda.

 

 

 

 

Stasis Boxes

 

I like this one. It's been going on for a long time-the SB have been preserving things for 3000 years, and the undiscovered ones still are. Something big could be found in one. An Aes Sedai, or a forgotten Forsaken? One who wasn't at the meeting of 13? Taim?

Actually where does one find a stasis box, and how is it made?

 

 

 

 

Moiraine’s Letters About Taim

 

If someone could intercept Moraine's letters it means that they have access to the Blues eyes and ears, and to their informations. It could be ongoing because they are still getting the information, but I don't remember any particular instances that could hint to such a thing.

The dark forces having access to important informations could have a huge impact, but it's something that has already happened before, so I don't see it as a big reveal.

 

 

Joiya, The Freeing of Taim, and the Borderlanders.

 

The Aes Sedai having freed Taim learn of the Tower break, and decide not to return—instead they head north[...]The Thirteen then regroup and join the rulers.

Maybe they turned Taim to the shadow with a combined circle with Fades?

It still seems a bit too complicated, and requires knowledge we didn't have at that point. It's certainly not a small detail that (should) stand out to us.

 

Sammael’s Truce With Rand

If it's not just Sammael lying to Greandal, this would seem to hint to the Forsaken and the DO having different agendas and interfering with each other's actions. Not a big mystery. Although who tricked Sammael, and what other actions they made could be relevant.

 

 

 

Ronde Macura

 

Well her actions have already had a huge impact. For instance the Perrin's battle with the Shaido in book 11.I would exclude it from the BUT.

 

 

 

Rand’s Third Answer

It would fit the bill perfectly, except that we know too little of it aside that it exists, we have nothing to speculate about, and it's not exactly a mystery that it would be relevant.

 

 

The Academies and New Innovations.

 

Possible, not much to add. Doesn't seem too likely though.

[Demiandre]

I read a chapter of Lords of Chaos, and to support the idea of the Shadowspawn and travels, one paragraph struck me.

LoC, ch.7 A Matter of Thoughts

"Villages taken by madness, nightmares walking in daylight, two-headed calves that talked, Shadowspawns appearing out of thin air"

The Salidar Aes Sedai reading Elaida's reports in her study in T'A'R[/i]

 

As it could only be rumors, I think it is a hint that something is weird with the shadowspawn. The Aes Sedai dismiss those rumors as impossibility, but that doesn't count as receavable since they are Aes Sedai. And we indeed have other hints that some things were truly weirds with Shadowspawns. In the Stone of Tear (that was Semirhage, not Graendal (LoC, Threads Woven in Shadows)) in the Two Rivers, in Algarin's Manor, near Ebou Dar, and Imre Stand.

 

I bet on this one.

[AllAdamB]

Is there a place where you can read the original discussion? I see the compilation thread and it mainly just says "anything related to X" is incorrect. The only problem is that some discussion on topic "x" may have been close but not close enough, and it may have been ruled out prematurely. I read some of these after TGS was released but they seem to have since been eaten by a trolloc. I have a thought that has been burning in my head for a while, but can't find the relevant material to locate it.

 

I'll just say it anyway. This may not be the BUT, however its something that I'm surprised that I can't find any discussion on. In TSR we learn that the Aiel were entrusted with the chora saplings and to find a place of safety. Reading back through the passages it seems that these are the most precious items entrusted to them with some ter'angreal thrown in. Only one sapling survives the trip to Rhuidean to become Avendesora. We're told that its important, but we don't actually know why. While Avendesora lives, Rhuidean is protected under a blanket of mist. What creates the mist? I've never seen a good answer for this. No shadowspawn enter Rhuidean until after Rand and Asmodean destroy the tree and the mist evaporates. One could argue that the entire reason that Jordan had Asmo and Rand fight in Rhuidean was to destroy the tree. Now at the end we may find out that the trees are central to sealing up the DO. Rand might learn through his LTT memories that they were part of the female Aes Sedai plans and he'll be like Oh Crap! You could argue that the events that lead to the weakening of the DO's prison began with the chopping down of a chora tree (Avendoraldera). Like I said, this is probably not the BUT. However, if you could point me towards some relevant discussion on chora trees and Rhuidean, I would appreciate it. At least then I could stop thinking about it.

 

PS - Also my favorite answer to the blank in the blight. A Chora tree. Or better yet, a grove of chora trees. Maybe in a stedding.

[Luckers]

I think "Aunt_Pol" may have got the Big Unnoticed Thing but was unaware of it. In another post in a different thread she mentioned the note that Herold Fel gave to Rand regarding (we think) the seals; the note she then carried because she found it endearing; he said she was "too pretty". And, she did like Fel.

 

"Belief and order give strength; need to clear the rubble before rebuild. Dont bring girl; too pretty".

 

Maybe there is something much more to this note than meets the eye...other than the "you need to break the seals" that Min and Rand have already figured out?

 

All that is in what Peter Ahlstrom ruled out.

 

I read a chapter of Lords of Chaos, and to support the idea of the Shadowspawn and travels, one paragraph struck me.

LoC, ch.7 A Matter of Thoughts

"Villages taken by madness, nightmares walking in daylight, two-headed calves that talked, Shadowspawns appearing out of thin air"

The Salidar Aes Sedai reading Elaida's reports in her study in T'A'R[/i]

 

As it could only be rumors, I think it is a hint that something is weird with the shadowspawn. The Aes Sedai dismiss those rumors as impossibility, but that doesn't count as receavable since they are Aes Sedai. And we indeed have other hints that some things were truly weirds with Shadowspawns. In the Stone of Tear (that was Semirhage, not Graendal (LoC, Threads Woven in Shadows)) in the Two Rivers, in Algarin's Manor, near Ebou Dar, and Imre Stand.

 

I bet on this one.

 

I always took this to be ruomours of bubbles of evil, but it is interesting especially when applied to the trolloc helicopters.

[Byzantine279]

The Chora tree isnt dead, at least not according to moiraine. The fog isn't mysterious at all, it was a form of protection the last channelers (aes sedai?) with the jenn created to protect the unfinished city (the same thing as the fog that moiraine created in the eye of the world).

 

The Chora trees were NOT the important thing being taken, they were just something the Aiel felt would make where they settled more of a home than it would be without them- a way to remember the past. Over time it did grow in importance to them, but only because they had long forgotten why they were sent on this mission anyway. (in truth they were sent to protect them, otherwise every single Aiel in the world would have died singing to try to slow the madmen down, they had done it before and would easily have done it again.)

 

No shadowspawn entering may have been because it was a ward, or simply because no one lived in the city, and who knows what a dead city the aiel made may be hiding. But a bubble of evil was able to enter, so it clearly wasn't all protecting.

[AllAdamB]

The Chora tree isnt dead, at least not according to moiraine. The fog isn't mysterious at all, it was a form of protection the last channelers (aes sedai?) with the jenn created to protect the unfinished city (the same thing as the fog that moiraine created in the eye of the world).

 

The Chora trees were NOT the important thing being taken, they were just something the Aiel felt would make where they settled more of a home than it would be without them- a way to remember the past. Over time it did grow in importance to them, but only because they had long forgotten why they were sent on this mission anyway. (in truth they were sent to protect them, otherwise every single Aiel in the world would have died singing to try to slow the madmen down, they had done it before and would easily have done it again.)

 

No shadowspawn entering may have been because it was a ward, or simply because no one lived in the city, and who knows what a dead city the aiel made may be hiding. But a bubble of evil was able to enter, so it clearly wasn't all protecting.

 

Like I said, I knew it wasn't it, but I would like to read the original discussion on anything that I think of. I also find it interesting that chora leaves open waygates. There's the Way of the Leaf. Treesinging. The Norse mythology that Jordan pulled from with the great serpent and the great tree. I feel that Avendesora still has a role to play. Even if it just serves as a remembrance of something very important.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Excellent list of possibilities. Im still thinking we are trying to figure it out by guessing the possible effects of it instead of just the BUT itself (if that makes any sense) but so far the best one is still the Unseen Eyes of TAR.

 

Luckers theory gets my support (if that means anything to anyone :P)

 

Im suspicious it is something else however, but i dont have a clue what it could be.

 

Ill admit, others have better theories than mine, so Im most likely wrong.

 

However, im thinking it has something to do with either Perrin or a DF/Forsaken. Perrin something to do with TAR (possibly involved in the Unseen Eyes revelation). DF/Forsaken, i am not sure, but most likely Graendal, Moridin or Demandred.

 

Hhaha, not really getting anywhere, but thats my thoughts on the matter. (So i can say i was right, if it turns out that way :lol: )

[Crael123]

Maybe it is that the gollum, since it is in Caemlyn, will be killed with Bigittes SILVER arrow she bot in FOH!!!

[DukeBob]

I think that it has something to do with the Choedan Kal ter'angreal that Rand first acquired in tSR. It was this point that LTT began to become an active part of his mind. We also see him become much darker (dark aura) in TGS while it is in his possession.

[Byzantine279]

Duke, did you read the last 2 chapters of TGS?

[Luckers]

Duke, did you read the last 2 chapters of TGS?

 

That it was destroyed doesn't rule out that its the BUT, though it does make it less likely. And people avoiding the use of the Choedan Kal first began in book four.

[Byzantine279]

Hmm, true. Though isn't it supposed to be revealed in the next book? I don't see how a destroyed object can really be revealed after it was destroyed. (not to mention it got more important, not less, as time went on).

[Luckers]

Hmm, true. Though isn't it supposed to be revealed in the next book? I don't see how a destroyed object can really be revealed after it was destroyed. (not to mention it got more important, not less, as time went on).

 

Technically in this case the Choedan Kal wouldn't be the Big Unnoticed Thing, it would be the negative effect.

[DukeBob]

Duke, did you read the last 2 chapters of TGS?

 

The fact that it was destroyed and LTT and Rand became one again is what drew me to this conclusion; that and my completion of the Mistborn Trilogy. It had a certain feel to it like a certain article owned by a character in Mistborn.

[DukeBob]

Hmm, true. Though isn't it supposed to be revealed in the next book? I don't see how a destroyed object can really be revealed after it was destroyed. (not to mention it got more important, not less, as time went on).

 

While the object itself cannot be revealed, the elimination of the effects thereof can be very revealing; especially if Rand has an "Ah ha!" moment and realizes that it was the source of LTT voice, or the dark aura, or even the negative twist he is having on the pattern. Granted the later could just as well be the effects of his channelling the TP. However, remember that much of the history of the CK is unknown. We know that in TSASG the CK access keys were captured by the Shadow. However somehow they end up in Rhuidean. Could the DO have taken the opportunity to taint this access key or even the sa'angreal themselves? LTT also comments that they are untested. We see evidence of this by the female access key not being able to sustain extended use.

[Thor]

I am excited to see what this turns out to be as I haven't the faintest idea. Its funny that he compares it to the thing in Mistborn, because I figured that out right away when Hemalurgy began to be revealed. I am reading Book 4 right now simply to see if I can pick up on something before ToM is released. The unseen eyes seem like a good idea, but I hope it is something else.

 

Can someone tell me what happened in Mistborn? Never read that.

 

If it's something related to choedan kal, it may be that something happened when rand tried to channel through it directly when he was with lanfear. Lanfear may have weaved something nasty into rand/choeden kal.