Do u feel that Rand was Too Hard On/Overreacted to Cadsuane in The Great Storm?

[csarmi]

Rand and co dont know that though. The point is for Rand to think his minions are incompetant, or untrustworthy. Or both

 

Well, the only way for them to be unaware of it is if they're turn their eyes away on purpose, I mean, come on:

 

1) there are darkfriends everywhere, surely amongst them as well (Elza was one and she actually swore fealty!)

2) they do know for a fact that several copies were made in Seanchan (plus where is the original?), and it's stupid to assume only Semirhage had them

3) even if only Semirhage had them, she could just travel and fetch one from where she has hidden some

[wvlr2]

That's not a very good example. All Cadsuane did was send Tam in to talk to Rand without telling Tam what was going on. She had to have known it could go very wrong and she did it anyway. Rand is the one who stopped Rand from balefiring Tam. Not Cadsuane. If you screw something up but everything works out for the best in the end, you don't get to pat yourself on the back because you were still responsible for the problem. In this case, the problem was Rand looking at one of the major cities and preparing to balefire it out of existence.

 

This logic is like saying Ishamael is responsible for Saidin being cleansed just because he did something that had this effect in the future. Or that the Black Ajah is responsible for his coming back to the Light because they made him crazy in the first place with that box. One way or another, it happened. Maybe if they knew what their actions would result in and worked towards it.. but they didn't. In Cadsuane's case, it wasn't to force Rand to hit a new low and go off on a killing rampage, it was so that he'd see the Light again by talking to his father. She failed. Rand didn't. His breakthrough came quite on his own after he nearly murdered a countless number of people.

 

In all, I have to say Cadsuane was a step away from being the biggest failure in history. If Rand hadn't come to his senses right before he could balefire Tam, it would have been game over for the Light side. We would be talking about whether or not Tam was Ilyena reborn. So if Cadsuane gets verbally abused or exiled, it's still less than she deserved.

 

I agree!    Caddy said it best "How can I know what the Forsaken are capable of"  Not an exact quote but IMHO that says that she knew that she was up against all the forces of the Dark and she knew that she only took precautions for the average threats.

 

If she had done all that plus guard it with Aiel & Channelers - then it still would not have mattered but at least it would have been reasonable precautions.

 

Anything less for TWO huge items obviously of great interest to the Dark is unforgivable.

 

I still think that it would not have mattered because the Dark has other copies. 

 

AND  even if she had done everything I stated above - SH + the BA gal could have taken care of them.

 

 

What really bugs me is that Caddy seems to think Rand is the only thing that she is up against.  She sent the "Sword that is not a Sword" off to two AS to study?  WTF!  What is the matter with her?    Several people have stated right in front of her TG is coming soon!  The Forsaken are loose.    How could she think that 2 AS are enough protection for a OP tool of that magnitude?    OR the things she hid in her little Box?    Then proceeded to show to everyone?    The woman has a problem realizing the scale of the real enemies here and that Rand is not the enemy.  She  treats him like someone who has to be pushed to do things instead of "helped" to do things.  MikeRiley said it correctly above - any success she has is an accident.

 

 

[HornOfValere]

I suppose this has really turned into an issue of whether Cadsuane kept the domination band safe.

 

I suppose something like this is kind of hard to judge. I mean, Nynaeve thought it was at the bottom of the sea (so why wasn't it...?), and short of sneaking into the White Tower to stash it away, I suppose Cadsuane thought she'd made it perfectly safe in her box. If I recall correctly she is quite proud of her weavings and she thinks Aes Sedai today don't have much talent or imagination to do any such thing.

 

And of course, she, or none of hte others, would know that the Dark One or his minions could waltz in and take her stuff.

 

You'd have thought she'd have a bit more precaution knowing she was dealing with people who learnt to weave before she was a twinkle in her parents' eyes.

 

That's partly her arrogance and partly just not knowing. So for that I'm tied.

 

But her arrogance and bossyness alone she loses. I wouldn't like to see her balefired away, I think she still has a role to  play, but I like the fact that she has to hide her face and takes it seriously. Don't mess with the Dragon, woman!

[Crael123]

bullshit. cadsuane deserved what she got.

[Crael123]

when i was reading it the first time i was CHANTING in my head STILL HER! STILL HER!!

[Morsker]

Exiling Cadsuane wasn't productive. But Rand is just a pawn between Ishamael and Cadsuane in this, so instead of blaming Rand I see it as Cadsuane being outplayed. She was trying to manipulate Rand into remembering laughter and tears. Ishamael wanted him to become harder and nihilistic, and Ishamael did it better. Also, it's quite likely that Bair or Soriela is a Darkfriend and Cadsuane trusted her with the Domination Band's location, and doesn't even realize it afterward, so Cadsuane got played on multiple levels.

 

I think she deserved to be exiled, but only because she tried to manipulate Rand and it backfired; it's the simple consequence of her plan failing. But Rand doesn't even realize what was going on; his reasons for exiling her are silly, and mostly a way of venting about her trying to "keep him in a box".

[Arath Faringal]

I think she deserved to be exiled, but only because she tried to manipulate Rand and it backfired; it's the simple consequence of her plan failing. But Rand doesn't even realize what was going on; his reasons for exiling her are silly, and mostly a way of venting about her trying to "keep him in a box".

 

I think you fail to understand just how big a deal that is to Rand.  Being trapped in a box, or any kind of captivity, is Rand's greatest fear.  When he went to announce himself to the Sea Folk he began to have a panic attack because of the enclosed cabin the talks took place in.  Then to find out that Cadsuane had kept a tool specifically designed to bring him into complete slavery ... given the way she constantly treats him, it isn't too much of a stretch for him to conclude that she kept it as plan B.  What to do if she can't bully him into doing what she wants.

 

I honestly hoped she'd make some sort of snide comment when Rand asked her if she thought he could make her heart stop simply by willing it. 

[Duskfire]

I am reasonably saddened that alot of people don't seem to see the value in Cadsuanes character and refer to her as a standard Aes Sedai, when she is anything but. But fair enough, we each see things in our own way.

[Durinax]

I honestly hoped she'd make some sort of snide comment when Rand asked her if she thought he could make her heart stop simply by willing it. 

I think that if she would have said anything it would have cheapened the moment, althoguh if she did say somethign rand would ahve killed her. . . so their about even lol

[Dakota]

 

Then to find out that Cadsuane had kept a tool specifically designed to bring him into complete slavery ... given the way she constantly treats him, it isn't too much of a stretch for him to conclude that she kept it as plan B.  What to do if she can't bully him into doing what she wants. 

 

This is actually something I hadn't even considered until now.  I can definately see Cadsuane deciding, if things got dire and desperate enough, that she might consider it justified to use it on Rand to force him to do what she thought was best.  While not explicitly stated in the book, I can see Rand thinking the same thing.

 

All in all, to the original question, do I think Rand overreacted to this particular situation?  A little yes, a little no.  It's not her fault that the Dark One's Avatar himself enabled Eliza to get it, but it is her fault for holding onto it and thinking she could keep it safe instead of destroying it.  Did Rand overreact when you take this event as well as her behavior in the series up to this point into account?  Hell no, she deserved it all.  At the very least I was hoping he would Sever her.  It could still be healed again afterwords if needed, and at the very least spending a bit of time without the power would have hopefully taught her a bit of humility.

[grolm]

#$%#%#@$ Cadsuane deserved what she got.

 

More interesting question is did Rand deliberately choose the wording of her banishment so that Cadsuane could comply by keeping her face hidden, or is that just an experienced AS twisting his words in a way he hadn't planned on?

 

In a Chapter late in TGS (I think it is in Rivers of Shadow) Rand and Ny are discussing things and he tells her he trusts her as much as anyone because he knows she wants what is best for him, versus Cadsuane's constant attempts to force him to do what is best, even if it's not good for Rand. Or something like that. Ny sees a person, Caddy sees a pawn. Big difference.

 

 

[lordrains]

Ive been thinking about it. My opinion, after reflection, is: Yes, in my opinion, Rand was too hard on Cadsuane after ''The Last That Could Be Done'' in Book 12.

 

Elza was only able to steal the Domination Band because Shaidar Haran ''loaned'' her the ability to do that.

 

SH is an avatar of The DARK ONE Himself!!!

 

No one would have been able to prevent anyone from stealing the Dominiation Band. ... Cadsuabe Sedai did her best. She had incredible Wards Woven around the wooden box it was being kept in.

 

Rand's tirade bordered on verbally abusive.  It wasn't her fault and she had worked for The Light for more years than Rand has been alive. And how many times has she saved him so far??

 

Now, of course I understand that part of Rand's reaction was cumulative. She has been a bit...curt...with him. But noone deserved Rand's reaction. Certainly not one of his most trusted allies.

 

 

Fish

 

 

when has cadsuane ever saved anyone?

for that matter when has cadsuane done anything at all except be self rightous and and demanding

[The Fisher King]

@ lordrains: ''when has cadsuane ever saved anyone?''

 

... Well, just for starters, how about in Winter's Heart when she walks right into the palace of the First Counsel in Far Madding and rescues Rand himself. Rand was in a Box (again), kidnapped (again), and only there because he had declined to follow Cadsuane's advice about going there in the first place.

 

 

Fish