Forsaken's Accents or lack of them

[Vermillion]

Simple question why don't the Forsaken have accents?  In several hundred years the US has grown a diverse accents even in some places within towns.  Your going to tell me that 3000 year old folks put into modern day times would sound the same or even speak the same especially after an event like the Breaking?

 

Older versions of English are barely understandable to modern people.  It just seems far fetched that they can just pop out the seals and blend perfectly.

[Majsju]

For starters, the Forsaken did not speak the language at all when they woke up,

Week 14 Question: If the Forsaken were sealed away in Shayol Ghul since the Age of Legends, with no contact with the outside world, wouldn't they be speaking the Old Tongue when they woke back up? How did they learn the Common Tongue?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: They still do speak the Old Tongue among themselves, but the first two who were freed, Aginor and Balthamel, had been held very near to the edge of the sealing, the reason they were so visibly affected and twisted while the rest came out whole and healthy, and they were very much aware of what had gone on in the world outside. You might say they had floated in limbo while watching three thousand plus years roll by, with the ability to zoom in. That is probably the only reason they didn't emerge entirely mad. In truth, those two have a much better understanding of the current world than any of the others because they watched it forming. They don't have a complete knowledge, because they couldn't see and hear everything at once, but they have an overview that is unavailable to any of the others, excepting Ishamael to a lesser extent. But then, he's a special case.

 

For the rest (aside from Ishamael), who spend those thousands of years in a dreamless sleep, the language spoken "here and now" was derived from the Old Tongue. I've heard the analogy used of a well-educated, highly intelligent citizen of ancient Rome needing to learn modern Italian. It would hardly be a slam-dunk, but he or she would have the roots of the language already. In the case of the Forsaken, the task is actually easier than that of the ancient Roman, since modern Italian is a more complex language than Latin, while the Old Tongue, as I have said time and again, is more complex and nuanced than the language of "today."

 

And since they learned a new language, I think (basing this on my own experience) that it is easier to mimic an accent in languages that are not your native one.

[aunt_pol]

For starters, the Forsaken did not speak the language at all when they woke up,

Week 14 Question: If the Forsaken were sealed away in Shayol Ghul since the Age of Legends, with no contact with the outside world, wouldn't they be speaking the Old Tongue when they woke back up? How did they learn the Common Tongue?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: They still do speak the Old Tongue among themselves, but the first two who were freed, Aginor and Balthamel, had been held very near to the edge of the sealing, the reason they were so visibly affected and twisted while the rest came out whole and healthy, and they were very much aware of what had gone on in the world outside. You might say they had floated in limbo while watching three thousand plus years roll by, with the ability to zoom in. That is probably the only reason they didn't emerge entirely mad. In truth, those two have a much better understanding of the current world than any of the others because they watched it forming. They don't have a complete knowledge, because they couldn't see and hear everything at once, but they have an overview that is unavailable to any of the others, excepting Ishamael to a lesser extent. But then, he's a special case.

 

For the rest (aside from Ishamael), who spend those thousands of years in a dreamless sleep, the language spoken "here and now" was derived from the Old Tongue. I've heard the analogy used of a well-educated, highly intelligent citizen of ancient Rome needing to learn modern Italian. It would hardly be a slam-dunk, but he or she would have the roots of the language already. In the case of the Forsaken, the task is actually easier than that of the ancient Roman, since modern Italian is a more complex language than Latin, while the Old Tongue, as I have said time and again, is more complex and nuanced than the language of "today."

 

And since they learned a new language, I think (basing this on my own experience) that it is easier to mimic an accent in languages that are not your native one.

 

 

Hey! Just thought of something. If they speak the Old Tongue among themselves, how did Nynaeve understand a word when Birgitte brought her to eavesdrop on them in TAR?

[ravenfier]

simple she has a lot of the old blood in her just like mat, perrin and eggy do, maybe she just has more of it ;D, to some extent they understood intuitivly some of the old toung without learning it. also they were spying in T'A'R so there could be some language rules that we dont know that effects T'A'R, ie maybe that place has some sort of universial translator?

[aunt_pol]

Maybe Birgitte did somethin fishy to change the settings.

[Owayn The Traveller]

Ah its the 'but'. You caught it Pol. Ah no but seriously good catch. How did she?

[aunt_pol]

Tut tut, Harriet was sleepin on the job.... Sounds like a booboo to me.

[Owayn The Traveller]

Well you have to admit if it is, its one of very few. I can only think of that Sulin thing in tGS. I think BS say that was an error, not sure?

[Vermillion]

I still think it's far fetched that they ALL master the language in such sort time.  But then again there is magic and monsters lol. 

[MikeRiley]

It took a while for a number of them to make their first appearance in the books. I know a new language can be learned fairly quickly if the person has the will to.

 

Also, their accents are probably still off but it's easy to say "he came from out that way" where the people talk funny.

 

Maybe this is why we've yet to see Demandred. He's not up to anything major, he's sitting behind a desk in Thakandar.

[Luckers]

They do have an accent--apparently they sound wetlandish. Mat notices specifically that Semirhage has almost none of the Seanchan drawl.

 

I still think it's far fetched that they ALL master the language in such sort time.  But then again there is magic and monsters lol. 

 

Well some did struggle more than others. Egwene notes that Halima writes like a child, the letter blocky and unformed. Graendal on the other hand has mastered the script so well that she can easily forge people's handwriting.

 

Hey! Just thought of something. If they speak the Old Tongue among themselves, how did Nynaeve understand a word when Birgitte brought her to eavesdrop on them in TAR?

 

Good question. Of course the same thing occurs when Perrin overhears Lanfear and Ishamael, or Sammael, Be'lal and Ishamael. It's a least consistant--maybe an effect of TAR?

 

(This is, realistically, a nod situation. After all neither Third or Second Agers spoke english, yet that's what's written. Just smile and go along with it).

[aunt_pol]

Yeah I'd kind of assumed it to be a little convenience... Like the way people in historically set epics tend to speak in clear English accents. Unless Gobshite Gibson's involved, leastways.

[Owayn The Traveller]

Yeah ands funny about Halima/ Aran'gar/balthamel. He was the most scholarly out of the forsaken, so he/she claims, and has the worse scrawl of the lot.

[featherxquill]

That's not surprising. People who write a lot tend to have messy handwriting. Got to get those ideas out, quickly!

[Owayn The Traveller]

Ya that's true but blocky and unformed doesn't fit with it though. Blocky would suggest slow and carefull writing. Trying to form the letters more so than trying to get it onto the page.

[RembrandtQ.Einstein]

Yeah ands funny about Halima/ Aran'gar/balthamel. He was the most scholarly out of the forsaken, so he/she claims, and has the worse scrawl of the lot.

 

 

What? I thought Ishamael was the lead scholar. He was the philosopher of his age. It was after all Ishamaels defection that gave him the name "betrayer of hope" and caused riots. Which shows his high standing in society at the time.

[featherxquill]

I honestly can't remember. I know one of them was. I was just going with it. If that's incorrect, though, then there's the answer *g*

[aunt_pol]

Well they say the smarter you are, the worse the writing. Must go bother the Nobel committee...

[Majsju]

Of course, Balthamel lived in an era that was far more advanced than ours. And look at teenagers today, most of the bunch are more used to typing on computers than writing with a pen.

 

And the new body might have something to do with it. She may not have gotten the finer motor skills quite yet. Heck, it might even be that Balthamel was lefthanded, and Halima is righthanded.

[Ashajaan06]

Simple question why don't the Forsaken have accents?  In several hundred years the US has grown a diverse accents even in some places within towns.  Your going to tell me that 3000 year old folks put into modern day times would sound the same or even speak the same especially after an event like the Breaking?

 

Older versions of English are barely understandable to modern people.  It just seems far fetched that they can just pop out the seals and blend perfectly.

 

In Lord of Chaos, chapter 17, when Sammael sends Andris with the truce proposal and Sammael's voice comes out of Andris's mouth isn't Sammael's accent described as different? dunno if thats actually relevant

[algspkr]

Either Tuon or Mat comments on Semirage's accent.

[Luckers]

It could also be that the modern script is different to the Age of Legender in some small, yet significant ways that someone used to scribing in the old manner would have to be cautious about adapting.

[farthammer]

If Perrin is holding snap wolf meetings in his head, then the mysteries of how all this old tongue language business ironed itself out seems a small one compared to that.

[Fains nose]

Also how did Mordeth learn the current language? When rand mat and perrin encounter him in tEotW he speaks the current language, though he is described as having an odd accent

[Owayn The Traveller]

Yeah ands funny about Halima/ Aran'gar/balthamel. He was the most scholarly out of the forsaken, so he/she claims, and has the worse scrawl of the lot.

 

 

What? I thought Ishamael was the lead scholar. He was the philosopher of his age. It was after all Ishamaels defection that gave him the name "betrayer of hope" and caused riots. Which shows his high standing in society at the time.

 

Balthamel was a history buff.