Time Distortion and Gaidal Cain

[Pilai]

So the idea of time being distorted has crept up before in the series.  Specifically in the "mirror worlds" there are places where a day can turn into a real world year or the other way around, in TAR, etc.  The town in the Gathering Storm that "resets" every day is another reference to this possibility.  I'm wondering if there are other instances of this happening, and if so, is it possible that we will see an adult Gaidal Cain? 

 

It seems kinda wierd that RJ made sure we knew Gaidal Cain was born into the world, but ISN'T Olver and is not going to be around for Birgitte.  Why would he even be born at this point in time?  Is he going to be one of the first heroes of the Fourth Age?  I just don't see the point of it being in the story at all if he isn't going to show up again at some point in the future.  Was it just so that Birgitte doesn't bug Elayne to go into TAR every night and see if Gaidal will talk to her?  One way for this to happen could be a town that is moving forward in time faster than the space around it.  Maybe some town goes to sleep one night and everyone wakes up aged 20 years?  There are plenty of ways it could go and still make sense in the context of the story.  Anyone have thoughts along these lines?

[Lambada]

Not really.

I just take Gaidal's rebirth as a reminder that, assuming the Pattern survives, the wheel will keep on turning, and that this story is just one snippet of the whole.

[Pilai]

That is a very real possibility.  I just don't see something like that happening for no reason.  There are plenty of things that reference the repeating of time throughout the books, including the name of the series.  I don't think something this important (Birgitte and Gaidal not being together for the first time ever) would be put in as just a clue that time repeats.  That just seems too...useless?  I'll say it again, it just seems weird that it would even be mentioned at all if it wasn't important in some way.

[aunt_pol]

I think the only plausible scenario there, really, is that we're introduced to a child, somebody's infant, who then dies tragically. Gaidal then rocks up, cool as a very ugly cucumber, when the Horn is Sounded again, and perhaps explains to Birgitte that he was just started his new life when it ended.

 

An infant/toddler Gaidal Cain is no use whatsoever in the Last Battle.

I think him being spun out was a story device, really, to allow and explain Birgitte's loneliness, confusion and possible nascent alcoholism. It gives her more depth than just being brilliant all the time.

[Pilai]

Again, a very real possibility.  I'll just be seriously disappointed if it does turn out to be some minor plot device that has no follow up.  Its just too big of a deal for the way the pattern works, and too big of a deal for the people involved.

[aunt_pol]

True. Maybe he's recognised for who he is, (in his pram) and there's a semi-serious conversation about the crappy luck that has one of the Heroes born like 25 yrs too early for the LB, and whether someone should kill him so that he can just show up as his adult self, off a cloud with Hawkwing et all?

 

I've clearly been hanging round here too long, when I even had that thought.

 

 

[FarShainMael]

Oh, I dunno.. I had a very similar thought about Janduin possibly being Hawkwing reborn so that he could sire Rand, and Gitara sending Luc to the Blight to kill Janduin so that he could rejoin the HotH as Hawkwing. Convoluted, or what!

 

[aunt_pol]

Yep, that's kinda twisted, alright!!

[Majsju]

Why would he even be born at this point in time?  Is he going to be one of the first heroes of the Fourth Age?  I just don't see the point of it being in the story at all if he isn't going to show up again at some point in the future. 

 

Consider this - RJ told us several times that he would not solve every single little plotline, several would be left hanging so we would leave a world that was alive. Now, having Cain being born now is a nice way of showing us that the world aft TG will not be filled with unicorns, rainbows and cookies. Similar to how Nicola has her Foretelling about the world not being done with battle after TG.

 

Of course, his birth does have a very direct effect on the story - An effect on Birgittes personality that I am quite certain we still have not seen played out completely.

 

 

[Bowden]

Why would he even be born at this point in time?  Is he going to be one of the first heroes of the Fourth Age?  I just don't see the point of it being in the story at all if he isn't going to show up again at some point in the future. 

 

Consider this - RJ told us several times that he would not solve every single little plotline, several would be left hanging so we would leave a world that was alive. Now, having Cain being born now is a nice way of showing us that the world aft TG will not be filled with unicorns, rainbows and cookies. Similar to how Nicola has her Foretelling about the world not being done with battle after TG.

 

Of course, his birth does have a very direct effect on the story - An effect on Birgittes personality that I am quite certain we still have not seen played out completely.

 

 

 

I love that RJ did that. There have many times where I was bored at work (a lot of my job involves standing around) when I fantasized about what I would do if I found myself in Randland all of a sudden. It'll be nice to still be able to do that after the series is finished. :D

[yoniy0]

Oh, I dunno.. I had a very similar thought about Janduin possibly being Hawkwing reborn so that he could sire Rand, and Gitara sending Luc to the Blight to kill Janduin so that he could rejoin the HotH as Hawkwing. Convoluted, or what!

I think RJ said that the Heroes show up in the form of their last incarnation. That being the case, Hawkwing wasn't born again during the last 1k years. And, a baby Gaidal wouldn't help much in TG...

[Duskfire]

It is a shame that Gaidal Cain isn't Olver. They really are extremely similar, and it would be quite awesome (and semi-ironic) for Mat to be looking after a reborn Hero of the Horn.

[Orderofolde]

There is a lot of uncertainty surrounding the issue of Gaidal.  He was always nearby whenever Birgitte was with the girls, but wasn't always just a shadow, never seen by the girls, only his shadow was seen? Also, doesn't Birgitte only THINK that he has been reborn?  He was upset with her breaking the "Rules" of T'a'r wasn't he?  He could have been off somewhere sulking, and that is why she hadn't seen him.  Could have also been nearby and hiding, and when Mog pushed her out, he valiantly jumped in front of that black wall to save her and got bumped out as well close by or somewhere else, likely walking around after taking a long time to recover from the effects.  Birgitte is poised to move on now with the battle done for Caemlyn. 

 

"Birgitte stood atop the gates of low Caemlyn watching the too-few who had come to fight for the Lion of Andor.  There was the occasional traveler mixed in, but for the coming storm, too few had arrived to fight.  Her sigh abruptly cut off as she spotted a squat, ugly fellow with a lumpy nose and big ears making his way in through the gates, eyes wide at coming in from the country and seeing the city for his first time.  Her eyes widened in disbelief as his eyes met hers.  And then they moved on, as if she were just one of many wonders trying to be taken in at once.  It couldn't be, but it WAS him only he showed no recognition..."

 

We all know how RJ is so good at making what you think of as something final being reversed, or standing what you thought that you knew on its head.  He makes you think that only one thing is inevitable, like Rand's death, but through masterful plays on words, he heals what can not be healed, he brings back to life those who have died, hides who the killer of people are, and we do not know it for fact until we get a direct and straight quote from a person in the books, but THEN we only have a viewpoint and what that one character BELIEVES as being the truth.

[mossman87]

http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/SciFi.com_ChatNovember_14,_2000

ArabianKn: Mr. Jordan, since Gaidal Cain has been born only recently in the Wheel of Time universe, how is it that he will grow old enough to fight in the upcoming battle (Tarmon Gai'don)? It will take at least 15 years for him to grow big enough to fight. And what about the other Heroes? Will they also be reborn, or will they remain to be recalled only by the Horn?

RJ: Who says that what Gaidal has been reborn to do is to fight the Last Battle? There is more to do to keep the Pattern on course than the Last Battle.

 

That's good enough for me.  Though I try not to get into the Dida-level of theorycrafting.

[Tom Sawyer]

Apparently there's plans to do a Mat/Tuon trilogy once the WoT ends (which mean that Tuon won't die. Grr).  I think Cain will show up there.  Maybe as some kind of Kung Fu master who wanders from town to town having adventures.

 

[farthammer]

I keep hoping Tuon is just a meat puppet and Selucia is the real empress or something.

[FarShainMael]

Oh, I dunno.. I had a very similar thought about Janduin possibly being Hawkwing reborn so that he could sire Rand, and Gitara sending Luc to the Blight to kill Janduin so that he could rejoin the HotH as Hawkwing. Convoluted, or what!

I think RJ said that the Heroes show up in the form of their last incarnation. That being the case, Hawkwing wasn't born again during the last 1k years. And, a baby Gaidal wouldn't help much in TG...

 

I'll have to look into this one further.. I'd had the impression that the HotH showed up as their most recent incarnation, but not necessarily in the form, ie the age or state in which they died.

 

But this in turn would mean that the AH soul would turn up as Janduin.. so I'd have to make a number of assumptions here. The AH/Janduin soul would need to recognise the Rand soul as his son (though he never knew him when alive), not wish to reveal himself, revert to a previous incarnation.. Hmm. Gets a bit complicated.

 

[aunt_pol]

Yeah, I think we're getting a bit tangled up in things here - although it seems possible that Luc's going to the Blight was necessary, to kill Janduin, so that Rand would be reared beyond the Waste. Mind you, that said, I'm sure something in the Blight would've killed Janduin if Luc never turned up.

 

Sorry, off topic there, kind of.

[FarShainMael]

I wonder if Tigraine is related to Berelain (sur Paendrag).. def OT!