Rands new sword

[MikeRiley]

I think Rand thought it fitting because it was Hawkwing's sword and it was both found and presented to him right before his meeting with Tuon. To him it would have been a symbol of his right to lead the Seanchan.

 

It wasn't Hawkwings sword. It was Guaire Amalasans sword, hence the Dragon markings. Hawkwing just kept it later as a trophy.

 

Pointlessly being technical. My property is not mine, I only own it until I die.

 

 

Right. Except it was the sword which Amalasan, the most notorious False Dragon, used to carve his Empire and nearly take over Randland itself. Part of the reason Hawkwing was able to conquer everything so easily was that much of the initial resistance had been previously crushed and destroyed by Amalasan.

 

What does Hawkwing have to do with Dragons? The entire symbolism does not fit him one bit. It's Amalasans sword through and through, since Amalasan proclaimed himself the Dragon Reborn and lead armies of Dragonsworn. Hawkwing not so much.

 

Yet Justice is known as Hawkwing's sword and Rand recognizes it as Hawkwing's sword. Hawkwing is at the moment a more legendary figure in Randland due to the Seanchan and for actually accomplishing more than Amalasan. I'm not sure if it's even common knowledge in the series that Justice belonged to the false dragon. I call it a pointless technicality because whoever owned the sword before Hawkwing, Hawkwing still owned it after and made it recognizable. The great sword Justice is Hawkwing's, not Amalasan's.

 

The symbolism isn't that it was a dragon's sword coming full circle. If that was the case, it would have been Lews Therin's sword. The symbolism is that it was Hawkwing's sword and Rand is about to deal with the Seanchan.

[cortezthekiller]

Still an interesting twist that it belonged previously to Amalasan.

[RembrandtQ.Einstein]

I think Rand thought it fitting because it was Hawkwing's sword and it was both found and presented to him right before his meeting with Tuon. To him it would have been a symbol of his right to lead the Seanchan.

 

It wasn't Hawkwings sword. It was Guaire Amalasans sword, hence the Dragon markings. Hawkwing just kept it later as a trophy.

 

Pointlessly being technical. My property is not mine, I only own it until I die.

 

 

Right. Except it was the sword which Amalasan, the most notorious False Dragon, used to carve his Empire and nearly take over Randland itself. Part of the reason Hawkwing was able to conquer everything so easily was that much of the initial resistance had been previously crushed and destroyed by Amalasan.

 

What does Hawkwing have to do with Dragons? The entire symbolism does not fit him one bit. It's Amalasans sword through and through, since Amalasan proclaimed himself the Dragon Reborn and lead armies of Dragonsworn. Hawkwing not so much.

 

Yet Justice is known as Hawkwing's sword and Rand recognizes it as Hawkwing's sword. Hawkwing is at the moment a more legendary figure in Randland due to the Seanchan and for actually accomplishing more than Amalasan. I'm not sure if it's even common knowledge in the series that Justice belonged to the false dragon. I call it a pointless technicality because whoever owned the sword before Hawkwing, Hawkwing still owned it after and made it recognizable. The great sword Justice is Hawkwing's, not Amalasan's.

 

The symbolism isn't that it was a dragon's sword coming full circle. If that was the case, it would have been Lews Therin's sword. The symbolism is that it was Hawkwing's sword and Rand is about to deal with the Seanchan.

 

 

You know. If I steal something, it doesn't make it mine. It's Amalasans sword. Hawkwing aquired it and used it. However Hawkwing had nothing to do with Dragons and the coloring was all wrong for his general association. I mean why would Hawkwing have a sword of carved Dragons?

[farthammer]

If earning a Heron mark sword through killing someone who is a blademaster is an acceptable way of becoming one yourself, why is the notion of sword theft being brought into this at all?  Whose sword was it before Amalasan, unless he himself made it?  Swords in this series are not quite like many other physical objects, they carry with them different notions of ownership and attaining them.  In some cases they do carry a piece of legacy from owner to owner, but with that is the ability for each new holder to add their own to it.

 

Edit:  I skimmed a couple of the earlier posts but much of this has already been said by others, but still wondering why you're comparing it to stealing?

 

I mean why would Hawkwing have a sword of carved Dragons?

 

Actually the one time we do see Hawkwing as himself when Mat blew the horn, he said he was bound to the Dragon Banner and the DR.  Perhaps he might be bound in similar fashion when he's spun out normally, in relation to Dragon related artifacts.  The reason I think that is a possibility is because in that scene, the Dragon Reborn himself was not the only thing holding him.  If the Banner itself also comes into play, what other things might affect his actions?

[Mr. Micawber]

I mean why would Hawkwing have a sword of carved Dragons?

 

 

Hell, why would he not have one? Sounds totally badass.

[Duskfire]

Slightly off topic, but I find it interesting that Guaire Amalasan held more territory at the height of his conquest that Rand ever has. An interesting character; wish we knew more about him.

[farthammer]

From the k cycle

 

He shall slay his people with the sword of peace, and destroy them with the leaf.

 

Then: Amalasan.  Remove the first letter then the last two to form 'aan', apparently the Old Tongue word of 'one'.  The remaining letters if viewed backwards form the Arabic word for 'peace', Salam.

[MikeRiley]

Isn't there also an Alsalam who is a king?

[ravenfier]

Can someone provide a Quote or Reference stating Heronless swords were presented to the common soldier.

 

well here is a stub from encyclopaedia wot about blademaster swords.... Im still looking for the direct quote from land to Rand about their swords.

 

Although the size and shape of the blades used may vary, the swords used by blademasters most often have a single edge, curved for slashing, with a hilt. Regional areas may favor one particular shape over another [verify]. Since the blademaster, and not the blade, is the weapon, he should be able to effectively use his sword forms with any given blade. However, certain types of blades are favored among blademasters and ordinary swordsmen alike.

 

During the Age of Legends, Aes Sedai forged weapons with the Power, some of them were swords. Power-wrought swords gave their users an advantage in battle. They are not damaged by ordinary weapons. They never rust. They never need sharpening. When Aes Sedai started taking Oaths and vowed never to create weapons, these Power-wrought swords became rarer and rarer. Over time, Power-wrought swords ended in the hands of the elite swordsmen, noblemen, and kings; the swords carried by king of Malkier (Lan Mandaragon's sword) and the king of Cairhien (Laman Damodred's sword) were Power-wrought. These unbreakable, master-crafted, blades forged by a lost art in the hands of dangerous men who have mastered the sword came to attain a powerful aura of mystique and prestige.

 

 

The heron marking on a sword.Some of the surviving Power-wrought swords were made with the Heron mark. Since ordinary circumstances cannot damage Power-wrought swords, a blacksmith would be unable to engrave a heron mark after they have been produced by Aes Sedai. Thus, heron-marked Power-wrought swords became highly prized among blademasters.

 

Tam al'Thor became a blademaster while serving in the army of Illian. The black scabbard displayed a bronze heron. The sword itself was very slightly curved and sharp on only one edge. The hilt was worked with a bronze heron and another was etched into the steel blade itself. This blade was passed onto Rand al'Thor but was melted during his third fight against Ba'alzamon.

[MikeRiley]

I don't have my books available but I recall Lan telling Rand about it at some point in The Eye of the World. He talks about how their swords are alike (both power wrought) but that his doesn't have the heron, and explains the significance.

[Terez]

TITLE - The Great Hunt

CHAPTER: 1 - The Flame of Tar Valon

 

"With the One Power, Aes Sedai drew iron and other metals from the earth, smelted them, formed and wrought them. All with the Power. Swords, and other weapons, too. Many that survived the Breaking of the World were destroyed by men who feared and hated Aes Sedai work, and others have vanished with the years. Few remain, and few men truly know what they are. There have been legends of them, swollen tales of swords that seemed to have a power of their own. You've heard the gleemen's tales. The reality is enough. Blades that will not shatter or break, and never lose their edge. I've seen men sharpening them—playing at sharpening, as it were—but only because they could not believe a sword did not need it after use. All they ever did was wear away their oilstones.

 

  "Those weapons the Aes Sedai made, and there will never be others. When it was done, war and Age ended together, with the world shattered, with more dead unburied than there were alive and those alive fleeing, trying to find some place, any place, of safety, with every second woman weeping because she'd never see husband or sons again; when it was done, the Aes Sedai who still lived swore they would never again make a weapon for one man to kill another. Every Aes Sedai swore it, and every woman of them since has kept that oath. Even the Red Ajah, and they care little what happens to any male.

 

  "One of those swords, a plain soldier's sword" – with a faint grimace, almost sad, if the Warder could be said to show emotion, he slid the blade back into its sheath – "became something more. On the other hand, those made for lord-generals, with blades so hard no bladesmith could mark them, yet marked already with a heron, those blades became sought after."

 

Ever since we found out the sword was Justice, I've theorized that it was Amalasan's sword to begin with.  Hawkwing did defeat Amalasan, after all, and I can see him keeping the sword as a trophy.  It gives special meaning to his name for it, as well.

[FarShainMael]

Ws it found underwater? Wsn't aware of that.

 

(quickly weaves Air to hold book in place.. ;)  )

 

This is in tGS, Ch37. Rand is preparing to take on Graendal. He picks up the sword, and thinks 'Such a strange weapon those scholars had found beneath the submerged statue. The sword felt so old.'

 

No indication given of whose statue or where it was found!

 

Interestingly, he then goes on to wonder whether he was wearing the sword that day as 'a symbol of something'.

 

To return to the subject of where this 'submerged statue' was located, any ideas? Inland or offshore? If the former, one possibility is Lake Somal in the Mountains of Mist:

 

http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Lake_Somal

 

Another is the bay at Mayene, between Mayene and Tear:

 

http://www.wotmud.org/directory/maps/mainmap.jpg

 

The only other lakes I know of are the ones in Malkier, and it's unlikely to be those!