A new Champion of the Light.

[Luckers]

What's the theory?

 

 

 

That the "Dragon soul" isn't necessarily born to be the Champion of the Light and is rather more of a game changing wild card that both sides need to truly win. It would've drawn on the Fisher game piece and Ishy's early attempts to convert Rand to the Shadow and all the no-kill orders that were issued.

 

The reason for the newer no-kill orders are the link between Rand and Moridin right? I think Ishy realized that Rand won't be turned.

 

That's my belief, yes. The timing of the link becoming strong enough to be percieved and understood is too close to when Moridin suddenly re-issued the no-kill order.

 

Quote

Crossroads of Twilight book tour 16 January 2003, Dayton, OH - Tim Kington reporting

RJ: Yes, the Champion of the Light has gone over in the past. This is a game you have to win every time. Or rather, that you can only lose once--you can stay in if you get a draw. Think of a tournament with single elimination. If you lose once, that's it. In the past, when the Champion of the Light has gone over to the Shadow, the result has been a draw.

 

Ok, lets look at this for a sec....

 

RJ later went back on that and stated that Ishamael was lying. The Dragon never went to the Shadow.

[Shadow Rider]

So what was the point of turning the Champion of the Light

To win...The Dragon and the Champion of the Light must be the same? or ... only the Dragon is needed, what is the point of having a Champion of the Light?

[Luckers]

My guess has always been that should the Dragon ever be foolish enough to turn, the Dark One would simply expunge his soul on the spot.

[Duskfire]

So what was the point of turning the Champion of the Light

To win...The Dragon and the Champion of the Light must be the same? or ... only the Dragon is needed, what is the point of having a Champion of the Light?

 

Thats why there are two other ta`veren; if this were to happen then Mat and Perrin would need to step up. I imagine in order for the DO to win Rand must be turned and either Mat or Perrin dies (which is why there is a kill order around for them at the moment.)

[RembrandtQ.Einstein]

My guess has always been that should the Dragon ever be foolish enough to turn, the Dark One would simply expunge his soul on the spot.

 

Rand certainly seems to be flirting with it though. Considering his use of the TP.

[DocBean]

The result was a draw because if Rand were to go to the shadow, that doesn't ensure that the Dark One dies.

 

The only way for the Dark One to "win" is to die.

so even if the Dark One gets the Darkfriends to win every battle and take over the world, the wheel keeps spinning.

at some point in every age he's bottled back up for one reason or another.

this is what ushers in a new age.

 

if he were to be killed, then he wouldn't be sealed up, and the wheel would cease to be.

which is why he's never won, and doesn't care to turn Rand.

 

Only the Forsaken care to turn Rand, or kill him.

 

[Tollieman]

The only way for the Dark One to "win" is to die.

 

Is there a quote from RJ or the powers that be that make the above statement fact? I mean, it might be true and all, but is it known fact, like you're making it?

[DocBean]

The only way for the Dark One to "win" is to die.

 

Is there a quote from RJ or the powers that be that make the above statement fact? I mean, it might be true and all, but is it known fact, like you're making it?

 

I'm not trying to make it sound like fact.

It is only my opinion; however, it is backed up by facts in the books.

That doesn't mean it's free of flaws.

 

For example. Every Age has the Dark One being released from a prison.

So he can't be dead.

Flaw – Another could take up the role of the Dark One.

 

In this Age, Rand could kill the Dark One. (if it's even possible)

However, for another age to occur, Fain, Rand, or someone else will have to take up the role of the Dark One in future ages.

 

Another Flaw - What if the Dark One can't be killed? How then could he get what he wants if the theory is true?

Answer - He hasn't yet, so maybe he can't.

 

[DemandredFO]

Ultimate answer:  They need Sazed

[RembrandtQ.Einstein]

So what was the point of turning the Champion of the Light

To win...The Dragon and the Champion of the Light must be the same? or ... only the Dragon is needed, what is the point of having a Champion of the Light?

 

Thats why there are two other ta`veren; if this were to happen then Mat and Perrin would need to step up. I imagine in order for the DO to win Rand must be turned and either Mat or Perrin dies (which is why there is a kill order around for them at the moment.)

 

This trifecta idea is interesting.

 

In the previous age who were the Perrin and Matt for Lews? Could they have been Ishamael and Demandred? Is that why the AOE was such a disaster in terms of failing to completely seal the DO or repair the bore (i.e it seems to me they managed a botched up superglue temporary solution at best; considering how the DO is rotting out of his entrapments. Previously he had to be physically released from the bore by outside interference).

[mossman87]

Martin Reznick: How was the Dark One created, i.e. is he a fallen angel, an inherent part of the universe, etc.? 

 

RJ: I envision the Dark One as being the dark counterpart, the dark balance if you will, to the Creator carrying on the theme, the yin yang, light dark, necessity of balance theme that has run through the books . . . it's somewhat Manichean I know, but I think it works.

 

So ultimately the DO is being used by the Creator just as much as everyone stuck in the Pattern, depending on how you look at it.

 

It'd make perfect sense that the DO wants to be destroyed.  My only problem with that is Moridin's balking over it when Rand suggested it in TGS.  If that has been the plan I figure Moridin wouldn't look down on it so much.  Especially since that'd make it his ultimate goal in the end, right?

[DocBean]

 My only problem with that is Moridin's balking over it when Rand suggested it in TGS.  If that has been the plan I figure Moridin wouldn't look down on it so much.  Especially since that'd make it his ultimate goal in the end, right?

 

If Moridin didn't balk over it then we'd all be saying "The dark one wants to die!!!"

and ruin the end for everyone.

 

Remember, Harriet picked Sanderson for a reason.

It's very possible that she liked that his books were so in line with what Robert Jordan had been planing for decades.

 

Huge mistake on her part. We've read his books, and considered the possibility that his gods aren't so different from RJ's gods.

 

 

[mossman87]

 My only problem with that is Moridin's balking over it when Rand suggested it in TGS.  If that has been the plan I figure Moridin wouldn't look down on it so much.  Especially since that'd make it his ultimate goal in the end, right?

 

If Moridin didn't balk over it then we'd all be saying "The dark one wants to die!!!"

and ruin the end for everyone.

 

Remember, Harriet picked Sanderson for a reason.

It's very possible that she liked that his books were so in line with what Robert Jordan had been planing for decades.

 

Huge mistake on her part. We've read his books, and considered the possibility that his gods aren't so different from RJ's gods.

 

 

 

It could be that if he mentioned it Rand might catch on that that is how the DO would win and Rand would nix the idea immediately.

 

I've always figured the wound in Rand's side showed how the sealing will happen.  It's the perfect function for it really.

[Suttree]

What's the theory?

 

 

 

That the "Dragon soul" isn't necessarily born to be the Champion of the Light and is rather more of a game changing wild card that both sides need to truly win. It would've drawn on the Fisher game piece and Ishy's early attempts to convert Rand to the Shadow and all the no-kill orders that were issued.

 

The reason for the newer no-kill orders are the link between Rand and Moridin right? I think Ishy realized that Rand won't be turned.

 

That's my belief, yes. The timing of the link becoming strong enough to be percieved and understood is too close to when Moridin suddenly re-issued the no-kill order.

 

Quote

Crossroads of Twilight book tour 16 January 2003, Dayton, OH - Tim Kington reporting

RJ: Yes, the Champion of the Light has gone over in the past. This is a game you have to win every time. Or rather, that you can only lose once--you can stay in if you get a draw. Think of a tournament with single elimination. If you lose once, that's it. In the past, when the Champion of the Light has gone over to the Shadow, the result has been a draw.

 

Ok, lets look at this for a sec....

 

RJ later went back on that and stated that Ishamael was lying. The Dragon never went to the Shadow.

 

Wait what? I know the you believe Ishy quote but I have never heard about RJ saying the Dragon never went over to the Shadow. That's a pretty big change. Could you provide quote please I would like to see that? Thanks Luckers.

[mossman87]

Yeah I'm confused on that:

 

http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Tarvalon.net_Q%26A_February_26,_2003

Q: Was Ishamael lying when he told Rand that the hero of the Light had turned to Shadow in other lifetimes?

RJ: No, he was not. Even those who lie sometimes tell the truth when it serves their purposes.