The Dark One and the Pattern

[Lambada]

If the Dark One truly wanted the Pattern destroyed, why not just order the Forsaken to use Balefire everywhere (either OP or TP)?

 

So, why doesn't the DO want the Pattern destroyed? Moridin (or was it SH?) assumes this is what the DO ultimately wants. Yet patently it is not.

 

So why?

[Barid Bel Medar]

Now this is just speculation based on the fact that the DO has not done EXACTLY that.

 

I think that the destruction of the Pattern that teh DO wants is a bit different to the destruction by Balefire.

 

He wants to, as far as we know, remake the pattern in his own image.

 

Balfire destroys the pattern completely, im assuming that the two are different things.

 

Plus, if that actually happened, it wouldnt be a real story would it ?  :D

[nolirion]

The pattern is a prison for the dark one but most off all what he want is to defeat or corrupt the Dragon.

He want victory to the creator .

 

[darth_hel]

Even if his only goal is destruction of the pattern, it isn't the goal of his followers. The only Dark friend we've seen that believes the Dark One will destroy everything is Moridin. If the Dark One orders his followers to balefire everything they might figure out that they're not getting the immortality they think they are and revolt.

[mossman87]

The Pattern probably unloads a metric f-ton of ta'veren and heroes of the horn to make sure all the balefirer's do not last long, if indeed that is a way of destroying it.  It's not different than any anti-virus software, I'm sure it has corrective measures.

[Loophole]

Didn't RJ once say that the amount of balefire required to destroy the dark one would also destroy the pattern? this could also imply that destroying the pattern with balefire would destroy the DO.

[RembrandtQ.Einstein]

The Dark One wants to unravel the Pattern, not completely destroy it. The Pattern forces humanity and all those caught in it to infinite and continuous servitude to a mundane repetition into eternity. Everything is absolutely pointless, since nigh nothing has consequences. As all will be done, repeated, repeated and repeated until time has forgotten the original actions itself. Acting out ancient rituals that have taken place many times before in the pattern, believing them to be innovations.

 

This is why Elan Morin Tedronai (Ishamael), one of the most famed and learned philosophers/theologians of his time, joined the Dark One. He saw the Dark One as being the only force in existence possessing the might to break the pattern. Once the pattern is unraveled and broken humanity is finally free to decide it's own destiny. Not forced into constant repetition and impeded in it's advancement and destiny.

 

The Dark one represents chaos, freedom, emancipation and self-determination. The pattern represents a jail. I can see why intelligent and deep men such as Elan were drawn to the concept of finally shattering the pattern, even if it involves unleashing the Dark One. Reign in hell or serve in heaven, is the sentiment I believe. Likewise "give me liberty or give me death," also fits the tone.

[Dakota]

Darth Hel hit the nail on the head, I think.

 

The forsaken and all the various DFs want to rule the world, while the DO wants to destroy it.  Hence why the forces of Shadow stopped using BF during the War of Power, they didn't want to destroy the world they hoped to rule.  And giving his followers this promise of power is what's keeping them in line.  The DO might have planted the seeds when he told Demandred to unleash BF, but they would know something's up if he told them to start BFing the world to oblivion.

[nolirion]

The Dark One wants to unravel the Pattern, not completely destroy it. The Pattern forces humanity and all those caught in it to infinite and continuous servitude to a mundane repetition into eternity. Everything is absolutely pointless, since nigh nothing has consequences. As all will be done, repeated, repeated and repeated until time has forgotten the original actions itself. Acting out ancient rituals that have taken place many times before in the pattern, believing them to be innovations.

 

This is why Elan Morin Tedronai (Ishamael), one of the most famed and learned philosophers/theologians of his time, joined the Dark One. He saw the Dark One as being the only force in existence possessing the might to break the pattern. Once the pattern is unraveled and broken humanity is finally free to decide it's own destiny. Not forced into constant repetition and impeded in it's advancement and destiny.

 

The Dark one represents chaos, freedom, emancipation and self-determination. The pattern represents a jail. I can see why intelligent and deep men such as Elan were drawn to the concept of finally shattering the pattern, even if it involves unleashing the Dark One. Reign in hell or serve in heaven, is the sentiment I believe. Likewise "give me liberty or give me death," also fits the tone.

I think you are making the same mistake as Elan Morin Tedronai ,it is true in a way but you are missing the whole picture , the pattern only force people to do thing it is called destiny but only a few people are used to shape it doing the same battle over and over again (fighting the dark one) but that is finally only an echo of the inner battle of humanity betwin wrong and good. 

In fact Rand (SPOILER) understand a the end that if he is reborn again and again it is not to do the same thing but to do better to redeem for their mistake The do give no freedom only fake promise and destruction of all thing .

In fact this is the little village that mat visit in TGS (the one who is reset over and over again) only bigger( much more bigger )

[DocBean]

The Dark One wants to destroy the Wheel that makes the Pattern.

he couldn't care less about the Pattern itself, and balefire will only effect the Pattern.

 

The Dark One wants and end to all things, he wants to die, and the only way to die is to have Rand kill him.

Balefire will make a mess of things, and cause chaos. Which is proof that the Dark One doesn't just represent Chaos like people think.

 

The Dark One is death, not chaos. Destruction, not Power.

He wants death.

 

Problem is, forsaken don't want that. So he tries to confuse Rand, goad Rand into killing him.

[RembrandtQ.Einstein]

The Dark One wants to destroy the Wheel that makes the Pattern.

he couldn't care less about the Pattern itself, and balefire will only effect the Pattern.

 

The Dark One wants and end to all things, he wants to die, and the only way to die is to have Rand kill him.

Balefire will make a mess of things, and cause chaos. Which is proof that the Dark One doesn't just represent Chaos like people think.

 

The Dark One is death, not chaos. Destruction, not Power.

He wants death.

 

Problem is, forsaken don't want that. So he tries to confuse Rand, goad Rand into killing him.

 

 

Source.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Its only speculation on DocBean's part. Really, he should say that it is only his opinion, because its not like it is a widely accepted theory.

 

In any case, the DO, he doesnt want to destroy the pattern, he wants to remake it in his own image, theres alot of talk about "unravelling" the pattern, but not outright destruction.

 

On the note of DF not willing to BF everything, if the DO really wanted them to do so, he would. Have a couple of Trollocs and Myrrdraal to help coherse and they would do it. Really, i dont think even the Forsaken would disobey him outright, and if he wanted to, he could hold them to it.

 

 

[Val Mickey]

Maybe the Pattern would reset after being balefired so much. Then it's life as usual. And the DO hasn't really gained anything.

[DocBean]

Source.

 

My source is the Wheel of Time series, my imagination, and the popular theory of the Dark One as Serpent.

There are no sources in any book that says "This is what the Dark One is up to..."

 

Its only speculation on DocBean's part. Really, he should say that it is only his opinion, because its not like it is a widely accepted theory.

 

In any case, the DO, he doesnt want to destroy the pattern, he wants to remake it in his own image, theres alot of talk about "unravelling" the pattern, but not outright destruction.

 

 

That is only a theory of mine (and others'); however, I believe there is a lot of evidence to back it up.

And you're probably wrong about the Dark One wanting to remake the pattern in his own image, that's what we were supposed to believe early on.

Moridin told Rand that's not what he wants. He wants to destroy it, end all things.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Source.

 

My source is the Wheel of Time series, my imagination, and the popular theory of the Dark One as Serpent.

There are no sources in any book that says "This is what the Dark One is up to..."

 

Its only speculation on DocBean's part. Really, he should say that it is only his opinion, because its not like it is a widely accepted theory.

 

In any case, the DO, he doesnt want to destroy the pattern, he wants to remake it in his own image, theres alot of talk about "unravelling" the pattern, but not outright destruction.

 

 

That is only a theory of mine (and others'); however, I believe there is a lot of evidence to back it up.

And you're probably wrong about the Dark One wanting to remake the pattern in his own image, that's what we were supposed to believe early on.

Moridin told Rand that's not what he wants. He wants to destroy it, end all things.

 

I dont care if your theory is the greatest thing the world has ever seen.

 

Dont say : This IS how it is.

Say: This is what I believe.

 

 

[DocBean]

I dont care if your theory is the greatest thing the world has ever seen.

 

Dont say : This IS how it is.

Say: This is what I believe.

 

 

maybe you should follow your own advice:

 

In any case, the DO, he doesnt want to destroy the pattern, he wants to remake it in his own image, theres alot of talk about "unravelling" the pattern, but not outright destruction.

 

On the note of DF not willing to BF everything, if the DO really wanted them to do so, he would.

 

you should have said "I believe the dark one doesn't want to destroy the pattern, but remake it...." {which seems to have been debunked in the books}

and "I believe if the DO really wanted them to BF everything, he woud..."

 

or better yet, don't try to be the cyber-police, instead realize this is a forum for speculation, not an encyclopedia, we don't need an editor.

[Barid Bel Medar]

YOu happened to convieniently ignore my first post, which most people reading these forums would ahve the grace to actually read.

 

Now this is just speculation based on the fact that the DO has not done EXACTLY that.

 

I think that the destruction of the Pattern that teh DO wants is a bit different to the destruction by Balefire.

 

He wants to, as far as we know, remake the pattern in his own image.

 

 

As for being cyber police, I am not in any way, I would think it was common sense, I say that as to avoid confusions like the one that has happened here. Really, I would think it was common sense and courtesy.