The Horn of Valere

[Bob T Dwarf]

the latest incarnation turns up.  Thers a quote from RJ about it, internet is slow, so i cant get it atm, but go onto theoryland's quote database and look under "heroes of the HOrn"

 

Not quite.  

 

Here's the question, Jordan's answer, and the questioner's speculation ( in bold ) about what his answer meant.  Clearly identified as her interpretation.

The Path of Daggers book tour 22 October 1998, Los Angeles - Pam Basham reporting

 

Q: "Is [the Dragon] soul born in any other Age, or only at the advent and (theoretically, of course) the closing of the Third Age, as the Dragon/the Dragon Reborn?"

RJ: This soul is one of the Heroes, and bound to the Wheel, spun out as the Pattern wills.  "It" is born in other Ages, but in a non-Dragon incarnation, to suit the pattern of that Age.  In the course of this answer, he related this to why Hawkwing calls Rand "Lews Therin" at Falme--because Hawkwing recognizes this soul. This didn't really tell me why he specifically calls him "Lews Therin", but apparently they've been hangin' together in Tel'aran'rhiod and the etiquette there is to call each other by the name of your last incarnation.  (My interpretation.)

 

My own guess would be that each Hero appears while awaiting rebirth in T'a'R as their most famous incarnation.

 

Was Birgitte Silverbow really Birgitte last incarnation?  Was Gaidal Cain his last incarnation?  Rogosh Eagle Eye his?  etc. etc.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I still think that that assumption is correct, however theres nothing to confirm this so i will leave it and take another angle.

 

Assuming my assumption is incorrect (which it may be)

 

I think you are partially correct in saying that it is their most famous form, however thats not quite right.

 

I believe that it is their most recongnizable form. People would not recognize a hero from before the AoL (remember the horn and heroes have been aroudn for ages, not just post AoL.) Just like Hawkwing wouldnt be noticed in two ages time, even though his achievemnts could possibly be greater than any other incarnation.

 

(I am not sure if you meant this, but jsut the wording "most famous" is incorrect)

 

Also, Birgitte and such always seem to be born with similar appearances to their "hero" forms. Birgitte with her Golden Braid, Gaidal Cain being monsterously ugly, so it could just be that this is how they look normally in T'A'R, its just that people give them the names of which they are most familiar with.

 

However, having said that, Rand is an exception, so im not sure on that.

 

So, I think that either

1. The most recent incarnation

2. They are the same, just the names change.

3. Their most recognizable incarnation

[Bob T Dwarf]

OK.  I'll accept "most recognizable" as being more correct than "most famous."

[Fains nose]

It could be you appear as your most recent incarnation, or you appear as the incarnation in which you gained HotH status, and hawkwing gained his status in the last third age

[Lord of the Morning]

I think we will and it will be revealed in Verins letter to Mat. I dont think it will be used in the  last battle though as the heroes of the horn were killed off by Slayer in the world of dreams(my opinion)

There is no way that Slayer has the power to track and kill the heroes in T'A'R.  Remember when he killed the couple hoping they were Rand and Min?  If slayer has trouble finding a Ta'veren's dream then he has no shot of finding the heroes in TAR, they only reveal themselves when they want to, theres a reason weve only seen birgitte and gaidal(the once) in TAR, because Birgitte felt the need to aid the girls and sought them out.  if she hadnt shed be chillen with hawkwing, rogosh et al in TAR right now instead of ripped out.

 

Dont get me wrong, i think the DO would love to kill off the heroes but if he hasnt managed it in all these eons, i highly doubt that slayer can do anything.  Mat will blow the horn at TG, probably at SG itself with Rand.

 

And you must always remember the inscription on the horn:

"Tia mi aven Moridin isande vadin"  The Grave is no bar to my call, the heroes are already returning from the dead to fight for the horn

[Durinax]

I dobut that Slayer can fidn and kill heroes. They are almost a part of Tar, and have the ability to hide from those they wish (I base this on hopper not seeing bridgette)

[Fains nose]

we will see, im pretty confidant about that theory. RAFO

[Duskfire]

Slayer seemed pretty impressed with himself that he killed a couple of captured Black Ajah. I doubt they would be on his all time high of accomplishments if he was actually killing heroes.

[Fains nose]

If all Slayer is is an assasin who kills wolves in his spare time, who cares about him?, hes just a glorified Gray Man. I think there is more to the Slayer character than that, he is featured in the ToM blurb, hes closely related to Rand and Lan, he can acces T'A'R. It could be his role is just to lead the Darkhounds against Perrins wolves and then battle him in T'A'R, but i think hes killing off heroes

[Duskfire]

If all Slayer is is an assasin who kills wolves in his spare time, who cares about him?, hes just a glorified Gray Man. I think there is more to the Slayer character than that, he is featured in the ToM blurb, hes closely related to Rand and Lan, he can acces T'A'R. It could be his role is just to lead the Darkhounds against Perrins wolves and then battle him in T'A'R, but i think hes killing off heroes

 

Slayer would hardly be the first villain in WoT to not measure up to expectations. Personally, I do think he is a glorified Grey Man. And as I pointed out, why would he gloat to himself about killing a couple of shielded Black Ajah when he was killing heroes? Seems like permanently erasing a legend from use would be a bit more brag-worthy then a couple of prisoners unable to defend themselves.

 

Anyhow, your more then welcome to your theory, and heck you could be right and we'll be back here after the book and you can tell everyone you told us so. However, its unlikely :P

[professorskar1]

it's a new theory, that's for sure.  But there really isn't any evidence that Slayer has been killing any Heroes of the Horn.

 

Except for the fact that you don't see any Heroes in Tel'aran'rhiod, but...that's the point :p  Nynaeve and Elayne (and also Perrin) talking to Birgitte was an oddity, and according to Gaidal Cain, also against the rules.  So, even if Slayer wanted to, I don't know if he'd even be able to find them in T'A'R unless they chose to reveal themselves.

[seraphim]

If all Slayer is is an assasin who kills wolves in his spare time, who cares about him?, hes just a glorified Gray Man. I think there is more to the Slayer character than that, he is featured in the ToM blurb, hes closely related to Rand and Lan, he can acces T'A'R. It could be his role is just to lead the Darkhounds against Perrins wolves and then battle him in T'A'R, but i think hes killing off heroes

 

Slayer would hardly be the first villain in WoT to not measure up to expectations. Personally, I do think he is a glorified Grey Man. And as I pointed out, why would he gloat to himself about killing a couple of shielded Black Ajah when he was killing heroes? Seems like permanently erasing a legend from use would be a bit more brag-worthy then a couple of prisoners unable to defend themselves.

 

Anyhow, your more then welcome to your theory, and heck you could be right and we'll be back here after the book and you can tell everyone you told us so. However, its unlikely :P

 

Aside from being one of the DO's minions-- Slayer is accessing the Tower of G. He admits to enjoying killing and being a hired gun after both the murder of the couple and the BA.  The sick little puppy enjoyed it.

 

On other threads, folks were discussing who would be the three into the tower- the consensus holding Matt, Noal, and Thom.  (The thought was that Noal/Iron, Thom/Music, and Matt/Fire via Aludra's sticks or something).  But, what if... Noal is iron, Thom is flaming balls of fire, and Matt, the horn sounder, uses the horn?  How else could those three men prevail against Slayer and all of those things in the tower?