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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

The end of an Age...


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So,  was just looking at some Jordan Quotes and came across this, and it got me thinking.

 

DragonCon 3 September 2005 - Emma reporting

 

Q: Are Calian and Shiva are born at the end of every Age?

RJ:  Yes, and RAFO.

 

My thoughts on it currently are that Rand and Elayne's twin children will be Calian and Shiva Reborn, thus signaling the end of the age. Not really sure if this has been discussed, or if it really has any relevance, but there it is.

 

P.S: for those who dont know, Calian and Shiva are always the Heralds of a new age.

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If they were the heralds of the new age then they would already be alive if Rand's victory marks the beginning of one. Maybe there will be another breaking, this time caused by wars between man and those will be what marks the age's end. Would definitely give them time to grow if they were Elayne's twins, and the Dragon's babies will be in the public light long enough to either be assassinated or grow into something.

 

So the Horn of Valere's 5 down. Lews Therin, Calian, Shiva, Bridget and Gaidal Cain.

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If they were the heralds of the new age then they would already be alive if Rand's victory marks the beginning of one. Maybe there will be another breaking, this time caused by wars between man and those will be what marks the age's end. Would definitely give them time to grow if they were Elayne's twins, and the Dragon's babies will be in the public light long enough to either be assassinated or grow into something.

 

So the Horn of Valere's 5 down. Lews Therin, Calian, Shiva, Bridget and Gaidal Cain.

 

1. Rand hasnt won yet

 

2. It doesnt say they have to be adults or any age, just that they are born at the end of an age.

 

3. So, Rand hasnt ended an age yet, and Elayne is pretty close to giving birth. They could be born just before Rand wins, making it still viable

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If they were the heralds of the new age then they would already be alive if Rand's victory marks the beginning of one. Maybe there will be another breaking, this time caused by wars between man and those will be what marks the age's end. Would definitely give them time to grow if they were Elayne's twins, and the Dragon's babies will be in the public light long enough to either be assassinated or grow into something.

 

So the Horn of Valere's 5 down. Lews Therin, Calian, Shiva, Bridget and Gaidal Cain.

 

1. Rand hasnt won yet

 

2. It doesnt say they have to be adults or any age, just that they are born at the end of an age.

 

3. So, Rand hasnt ended an age yet, and Elayne is pretty close to giving birth. They could be born just before Rand wins, making it still viable

 

I liked a theory I read that said "Twice for birth" was for Rand's twins.

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1. Rand hasnt won yet

 

American writer. The good ALWAYS wins in America.

 

I am refering to the timeline, so far, Rand has not won yet, so there is still time for the two to be born before this victory.

 

And Id say that all authors, no matter what country, have the forces of Light in their books win, if not, then it would seem a pretty pointless book.

 

"and the bad guys destroyed the world, everyone died painfully, or were inslaved. The End."

 

Yea, real great story...

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And Id say that all authors, no matter what country, have the forces of Light in their books win, if not, then it would seem a pretty pointless book.

 

"and the bad guys destroyed the world, everyone died painfully, or were inslaved. The End."

 

Yea, real great story...

Ever seen a European movie? Most end badly. But that's off topic.

As to a European fantasy book without a happy end? Ever read Jules Vernes 10,000 leagues under the sea?

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And Id say that all authors, no matter what country, have the forces of Light in their books win, if not, then it would seem a pretty pointless book.

 

"and the bad guys destroyed the world, everyone died painfully, or were inslaved. The End."

 

Yea, real great story...

Yeah, I'm with Thorum on this one. Hadn't you read Greek mythology? The bible has a few other examples. A story can sometimes convey its moral better when the good guys lose in the end. Since the moral is the important bit, not the welfare of the heroes of the story, there's no real reason for the good guys to win. It's entirely a cultural thing (and American culture is prone to that kind of thing).

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Indeed, seems i didnt make myself clear, i was mainly speaking of modern/fantasy books.

 

but yes, i do agree with you on the other points, definitley not always turn out good, theres a whole genre on this "Tragdeies". No-one wins there haha.

 

in any case, i meant fantasy with a typical good v evil epic struggle.

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in any case, i meant fantasy with a typical good v evil epic struggle.

 

Almost all of those authors are Americans. Even in the French-language section of the bookstore. And they're very chauvinistic, so there is only a limited choice of translated books.

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There isn't a lot of french modern fantasy litterature writers. On our bookstores, we will find Jordan, Tolkien, Hoob, Morcock, Eddings, and so on, and sometimes Grimbert, Saviste, if ypu qearch long enough (or book it to the librarian). But it is the same in french modern fantasy litterature. I haven't read all books of french autors, but most of them end up with a happy end...

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Less than two years have gone by in the WoT timeline since Mat blew the Horn of Valere at the end of the Great Hunt.  Calian and Shiva showed up at that point (Mat's POV on this point is shown in Chpt 21 of CoS), i.e., they were not yet spun out (born).  They're either babies right now or have yet to be born yet.  Elayne's children having their souls is as good a theory as any.  Maybe last time they were born the day LTT sealed the Bore?...

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Stephan King's Dark Tower series doesn't exactly have a happy ending. All the other three of Roland's little coetrie die if I remember correctly and getting into the tower isn't at all what you could term a crowd pleasure. Not that it isn't a great ending to a fabulous but flawed series.

 

Also I'm not expecting this series to end altogether happy either. I can see a few major characters dying and Rand not getting the credit for everything, damn that logain, and some vast disarray in the forces of the light and lets not forget the Seanchan will still be there after the last battle. Definitely won't end up all peaches.

 

Peaches prob a bad choice there giving the source materials view on them.

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Ok, first off, i've read the books about 2-3 times each but cant recall any mention of Calian and Shiva, maybe someone can enlighten me where they are mentioned?

 

And now if they are the sign of the end of an age they probably will be reborn as Elayne's twins. That seems to be the most obvious to me anyway.

 

And i really dont hope Perrin and Mat will die, sure Rand will die at some point, but that we already know (tho the details are abit fuzzy). Tho i wouldnt mind seeing Cadsuane/Nyneave/Lan/Tom dying. And dont get me wrong, it's not like i hate those characters or anything tho an Tarmon Gaidon without any deaths seems kinda lame TBH.

 

 

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While they are there also, they are there at the blowing of the horn.

Look, Barid, I did search before posting my last comment.

Down the billowing fog, as if it were the side of a mountain, rode shapes on horses. At first the dense mists hid more than that, but slowly they came closer, and it was Rand's turn to gasp. He knew them. Men, not all in armor, and women. Their clothes and their weapons came from every Age, but he knew them all.

Rogosh Eagle-eye, a fatherly looking man with white hair and eyes so sharp as to make his name merely a hint. Gaidal Cain, a swarthy man with the hilts of his two swords sticking above his broad shoulders. Goldenhaired Birgitte, with her gleaming silver bow and quiver bristling with silver arrows. More. He knew their faces, knew their names. But he heard a hundred names when he looked at each face, some so different he did not recognize them as names at all, though he knew they were. Michael instead of Mikel. Patrick instead of Paedrig. Oscar instead of Otarin.

He knew the man who rode at their head, too. Tall and hook-nosed, with dark, deep-set eyes, his great sword justice at his side. Artur Hawkwing.

I've scanned the rest of the chapter, and didn't find any more names. Might've missed some, but I don't think that I did.

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While they are there also, they are there at the blowing of the horn.

Look, Barid, I did search before posting my last comment.

Down the billowing fog, as if it were the side of a mountain, rode shapes on horses. At first the dense mists hid more than that, but slowly they came closer, and it was Rand's turn to gasp. He knew them. Men, not all in armor, and women. Their clothes and their weapons came from every Age, but he knew them all.

Rogosh Eagle-eye, a fatherly looking man with white hair and eyes so sharp as to make his name merely a hint. Gaidal Cain, a swarthy man with the hilts of his two swords sticking above his broad shoulders. Goldenhaired Birgitte, with her gleaming silver bow and quiver bristling with silver arrows. More. He knew their faces, knew their names. But he heard a hundred names when he looked at each face, some so different he did not recognize them as names at all, though he knew they were. Michael instead of Mikel. Patrick instead of Paedrig. Oscar instead of Otarin.

He knew the man who rode at their head, too. Tall and hook-nosed, with dark, deep-set eyes, his great sword justice at his side. Artur Hawkwing.

I've scanned the rest of the chapter, and didn't find any more names. Might've missed some, but I don't think that I did.

 

Gah, you are right, I misread the internet thing, it said only that they were there at the Sounding, not actally onscreen, so, you are correct.

 

http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Calian_the_Chooser

Calian the Chooser is one of the Heroes of the Horn. She is sister to Shivan the Hunter; both of whom are only born at the end of an Age. It is suspected that Elayne Trakand is pregnant with Calian and Shivan.

edit Appearance

 

She rides with a red mask.

edit Activities

 

She appears when Matrim Cauthon blows the Horn of Valere at Falme.

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