[DPR Mafia] Suras 4 - Mafia wins!

[aemonkristen]

I understood that the VKs were NAs. I say that if Adella flips scum, someone should try to VK another Bonda Perrada. If THAT one flips scum, we've got a lot to work with.

[Guest dragonsworn1991]

You have a more productive lynch in mind then?

 

We all would if we saw what we were working with and the information that we would receive.

[LilyElizabeth]

Alys, I find it a bit confusing when you just have "Quote" above a quote. Can you possibly quote the name of the person as well? If not, okay, but I thought I'd ask. I don't think any of us are going to read back and see who said something.

 

And, for the record, I only hate confusion if I'm not the one creating it.  ;) Although, I don't deliberately create WIFOMs, either. They do, however, happen accidentally at an alarming rate.  ;D After all, Pete was/is my mentor at this crazy game.

[Talya]

Aluys, you miss understand, you asked me a question then answered it for me. WE all hide something in this game, it is a fact! Thats all I was saying...YOU twisted it round to make it into something!

 

And she can poke away.

 

Pete, I think it maybe a little late in the day to say things like that. I know you tried for Lily, but you haven't given a good reason why yet. We may still get info out of Adella, but I think it is more about her sentence that got people back on her, after they were taking their votes off!

 

 

[Guest dragonsworn1991]

I posted reasons and explanations for why I thought Lily was scum.

[Barmacral]

You did, and Talya's response was that none of those reasons were good. Personally, this is the first time in about 4 games that I'm actually finding Lily to not be giving me a scummy vibe at all.

[mmeeshal]

Someone who's had as much experience with mafia games as you have, surely has considered more possibilities than this, yet you act like those are the only options possible.

You are right. I did, this made the most sense. And sure I was pushing you. On purpose. Blatantly, some might say. Please note the shameless and calm down. Oh, and try not to show that you are on a team next time. You weren’t the only one, just the most visible.

 

Also, I'll blatantly say that I think you're scum, fishing for information.

Sweetie, she’s a dead player. Saying, “I viewed a dead player,” is useless info, hiding that info while saying you had it is pretty interesting though. Why hide it?

But that's not what I'm saying at all, so I'm not hiding it either.  I know Bela's dead.  I'd be pretty stupid not to know she's dead.  The information I'm hiding is information that doesn't really benefit the town at this point, it would only help the mafia.  I didn't view Bela, nobody I know viewed Bela.

 

Lynching Adella should help a bit, but it still takes concrete evidence from the game itself to prove what's going on with the factions and the alignments

And change of pace to vote me. Um, did I get under your skin? Good, I tried.  :D That’s how I feel people out. Not by placing votes that could kill the wrong person. You, my dear, were hiding something.

 

Meesh had it right about why you were asking her about how she knew Bela was a Captain. I thought it was quite obvious, but you didn't even include that!

Could be that I didn’t read very well, but I thought we were all just the common people or a mix of all of the important people with the vote (whichever way Suras works). Which makes it seem obvious to me that  she’s working with someone for info or she viewed bela.

Yes, again, I'll say it, I was hiding something.  I am hiding something.  Just because someone's hiding something doesn't mean you need to find out what it is unless it's super-necessary.  Honestly, I've played as mafia so many times, if it was the fact that I'm mafia that I was hiding, I wouldn't even give you a hint of hiding anything.  I wouldn't go out of my way to hint at ANYTHING.

 

And that's why I'm suspicious of you; what real good does trying to dig up people's secrets do, unless the secrets they seem to be hiding are probably detrimental to the town?  Or if the time is right and the knowledge of what they know is going to help out?

 

I mean, you might as well just ask everyone to quote their role PMs.  Since you obviously don't respect people's abilities or judgment when it comes to revealing or withholding information.  And you obviously think you're the best suited to figure everything out.[/sarcasm]

 

And I'll say it again, I didn't view Bela.  I wouldn't be hiding it if I had.

 

Also, yes, I'm easy to get a reaction out of.  Meesha doesn't have inner peace.  Meesha is a thunderhead.

[Guest dragonsworn1991]

I was unsure of what you were meaning earlier in game, and I now have it fully grasped. I think at least one scum member has figured it out also. I think it isn't necessary for the town to know it atm, but the added knowledge may help.

 

If one scum knows it then all the scum do and will work with the extra information.

 

I can reveal my suspicion as to what you have alluded to, with your blessing, that way you don't think I am trying to get you to reveal any information.

[LilyElizabeth]

You did, and Talya's response was that none of those reasons were good. Personally, this is the first time in about 4 games that I'm actually finding Lily to not be giving me a scummy vibe at all.

 

No offense, Barm, but that scares me - a LOT!

[Guest dragonsworn1991]

You did, and Talya's response was that none of those reasons were good. Personally, this is the first time in about 4 games that I'm actually finding Lily to not be giving me a scummy vibe at all.

 

No offense, Barm, but that scares me - a LOT!

 

seconded.

 

 

[Guest dragonsworn1991]

Also I thought I had good enough reasons for day 1. I think that is as much as you can expect.

[mmeeshal]

I was unsure of what you were meaning earlier in game, and I now have it fully grasped. I think at least one scum member has figured it out also. I think it isn't necessary for the town to know it atm, but the added knowledge may help.

 

If one scum knows it then all the scum do and will work with the extra information.

 

I can reveal my suspicion as to what you have alluded to, with your blessing, that way you don't think I am trying to get you to reveal any information.

I'm assuming you're talking to me. :D  If you want to share your suspicions, go ahead.  You might as well, I've probably stirred up enough confusion and the matter may as well be set to rest for the time being.

[Guest dragonsworn1991]

Your assumption is correct my dear.

 

The captains would be a mason group, from what I have gathered in your posts.

[Barmacral]

You did, and Talya's response was that none of those reasons were good. Personally, this is the first time in about 4 games that I'm actually finding Lily to not be giving me a scummy vibe at all.

 

No offense, Barm, but that scares me - a LOT!

 

seconded.

 

 

 

Don't worry guys, it terrifies me too.

[mmeeshal]

You're mostly correct, I think.

 

Thinking on it a little, I think you're right, people have already guessed what I've basically hinted at, so I might as well clear it up to some degree.

 

I suspect, as a matter of fact, that there are probably mason groups, or groupings of some sort, within each faction, but I could be wrong--I only know about my own piece of information, not the entire game setup.

 

Anyway, I am sure there are more Captains out there than just me and Bela and anyone else I may or may not know about.  So the Captains, as far as I know, are not one big mason group.  Perhaps the Captains are all broken up into little mason groups, perhaps I am right in thinking there are groups within the larger factions, only one group (aside from, as I believe, the mafia infiltrators) for each faction.

 

Either way, yes, I am a mason.  I knew Bela, she would have known me.  We were allowed to talk outside the thread, though we didn't actually do that due to the fact that she was sort of night killed and all.

[LilyElizabeth]

I wonder why Pete would think it's ONE big group.

[LilyElizabeth]

You did, and Talya's response was that none of those reasons were good. Personally, this is the first time in about 4 games that I'm actually finding Lily to not be giving me a scummy vibe at all.

 

No offense, Barm, but that scares me - a LOT!

 

Thanks, Barm. That helps.  :-*

 

seconded.

 

 

 

Don't worry guys, it terrifies me too.

[Red2111]

I cannot see different members of each faction being aligned differently. That would just be weird. The Bonda Perrada want the Challenger to win and the Captains want the Minister's Man to win. Then there appears to be an undecided faction between them. Why can it not be as simple as scum, town and other?

 

I think this game is being talked up to be incredibly more convulted than Wes intended and he is probably sitting back laughing at us all LOL

 

It is actually simple, and I’ve mentioned this numerous times ….

 

Manipulators = Mafia

Everyone else = Town

 

Go back and read Wes’s post again about the guys with the amber liquid here

 

It specifically says

 

“To our impending victory! As none of these fools even begins to suspect what is actually happening, I see little to stand in our way!”

 

This part tells us they’re pulling the strings. And also explains why some one viewed as Bova, Beva or Captain doesn’t clear them or confirm their guilt

 

Then we have this bit

 

Then, one by one, each member left the room and went forth into the night to take their place in the scheme.

 

It’s actually rather easy to see that each of the 10 members are settled within the 3 factions Challenger Supporters, Minister Supporters, & the Undecided.

 

I know you love it as much as I hate it. Enjoy, sweetie. No matter what, I love ya!

 

Awe :)  I loves you too Lily :*

 

I'm with Red on the Candidates, I don't think they are one of us. i think that we will choose Beva and Bova at the end (or whenever we want to vote). Otherwise one could easily be lynched or night killed off and then that leaves us with just one. Thats why I thought that those already given the 'supporter of ???' doesn't necessarily mean they were mafia/townie.

 

:)  I’m glad someone is at least on the same page with me

 

I cannot see different members of each faction being aligned differently. That would just be weird. The Bonda Perrada want the Challenger to win and the Captains want the Minister's Man to win. Then there appears to be an undecided faction between them. Why can it not be as simple as scum, town and other?

 

I think this game is being talked up to be incredibly more convulted than Wes intended and he is probably sitting back laughing at us all LOL

 

This is exactly what I think.  If there are Bevas who are town and Bovas who are town then don't some townies lose if the other candidate gets voted in?  How does that work? 

 

Quote from the rules:

One candidate will be Town. The other candidate will be mafia.

 

The Town wins if their candidate receives the majority of votes. The mafia win if their candidate receives the majority of votes.

 

This is the only win condition in this game.

 

So does that mean if the Beva candidate is town and loses that the Bova supporters who were town also lose even though the candidate they supported won?  I just don't get that.  To me it just seems like people trying to make things more confusing than they are so that they can claim they're "one of the good bad guys!" or some such.  I see Wes's posts talking about the manipulators being mixed in to all of the sides of the conflict, but can't seem to wrap my head around how the mechanics of that would work when we know there's one win condition.  The rules say so.  So what would the manipulators get out of it?

 

You bring up a good point, what would the Manipulators get out of all of this.  I think we need to stop focusing on the supporters motives and focus on the Manipulators motives, if we learn any more.  I feel like I’m missing something staring me in the face but just cant get to it and it’s irking me.

 

We need to look at what the clues suggest and come to a conclusion; this should help us concerning our win condition of who the right candidate is to vote for.

 

[Red2111]

Deadline

Friday, July 9th 8 pm EST

 

Vote Count

Adella (15): Lily, Pookie, Barm, Tigs, JLM, Alys, Hybrid, Nae, Aemon, Pete, Lav, Amadine, Wombat, Tayla, Verbal, Jeran

Lily (1):  Red

Alys (1): Meesh,

Meesh (1): pandy

 

No Lynch (1): Al Jenn

 

no vote (12):  Lia, Rose, MCS, Danya, Dae, Crusher, Rey, Ed, Aust, Adella, Red, L13

 

While the story makes it clear that there are dark forces hidden among all three factions it doesn't change the fact that the only win condition is based on the outcome of the election. Now maybe there are a few scum sprinkled through the undecided and beva's groups to try to sway them but it doesn't change that there is way more darkness around Bova (if I'm reading the scene correctly).

 

Also the clarification I got from DPR about my viewing made faction=alignment so I don't think it's that you can be town aligned but be in the Bova faction. (someone I think red suggested that)

 

See I’m of a different opinion as I believe Manipulators = Mafia.  Those dark forces are, I believe, the manipulators; seeing as they are the only ones with an ulterior motive and pulling strings.

 

And because of this, I see a contradiction in your words, you say

 

the story makes it clear that there are dark forces hidden among all three factions

 

But then you also say

 

I don't think it's that you can be town aligned but be in the Bova faction

 

Not all of those surrounding the Challenger had black hearts, so it argues that not all of them are scum.

 

 

Red do you have some sort of post restriction where every single bloody post of yours has to be a mile long?  Jeez!!!

 

:-[ Sorry.  I’m just trying to help, I do try to break them up so there not just one massive wall o text that way people will read what I say. 

 

Aside from that, I love logical puzzles and politics are very intriguing, coupled with the fact I’ve only played 3 mafia games in the past 2 months due o my HP game I’m a bit over zealous to get back in to the swing of things.

 

Wes has just got me excited because, as I said, this game is all 3 of those bundled in one sweet package with a nice twisty bow on top :)

 

When I’m away from the game and there are 6 pages (like today and last night ;) ) worth to R&R to I do try to be conservative in my response; but I’m not going to out right ignore things I see need to be addressed

 

If it’s too much of a problem I can try and stop analyzing the story :( 

 

But that's not what I'm saying at all, so I'm not hiding it either.  I know Bela's dead.  I'd be pretty stupid not to know she's dead.  The information I'm hiding is information that doesn't really benefit the town at this point, it would only help the mafia.  I didn't view Bela, nobody I know viewed Bela.

 

Yes, again, I'll say it, I was hiding something.  I am hiding something.  Just because someone's hiding something doesn't mean you need to find out what it is unless it's super-necessary.  Honestly, I've played as mafia so many times, if it was the fact that I'm mafia that I was hiding, I wouldn't even give you a hint of hiding anything.  I wouldn't go out of my way to hint at ANYTHING.

 

And that's why I'm suspicious of you; what real good does trying to dig up people's secrets do, unless the secrets they seem to be hiding are probably detrimental to the town?  Or if the time is right and the knowledge of what they know is going to help out?

 

I mean, you might as well just ask everyone to quote their role PMs.  Since you obviously don't respect people's abilities or judgment when it comes to revealing or withholding information.  And you obviously think you're the best suited to figure everything out.[/sarcasm]

 

And I'll say it again, I didn't view Bela.  I wouldn't be hiding it if I had.

 

Also, yes, I'm easy to get a reaction out of.  Meesha doesn't have inner peace.  Meesha is a thunderhead.

 

You actually seem rather defensive to me, especially with the revelations of your last post.  If you recall I also asked you to explain why you meant in one of my long posts last night when you said you knew Bela was a captain.  I figured if you had viewed her your results would help us sort out some of the confusion surrounding the info we receive when we view someone.

 

I say it’s defensive or an over reaction because of the bit about quoting role PMs and of course people are hiding things it’s mafia. Not to mention that I’m of the opinion half reveals are scummy anyways.

 

If it’s not important to us, why bring it up in the first place?  All that does is lead more to the confusion, paint a target on your back and get peoples panties in a twist ;)

 

[Aust]

I just had a thought.

 

Why doesn't someone use the vig kill on Adella or someone else instead of running a lynch on them? That way we can use a lynch for something more productive.

 

Pete more and more your posts are confusing me - I'm not finding the sense in them, and this makes me suspicious of you.

 

But, I think we have a more pressing matter today in looking at Lily's viewing of Adella, and perhaps the behaviour of a few others.

 

Now, this was pandy's post regarding Adella:

 

no need to vote for her. I cop investigated her and she's Bonda Perrada, so I think that's what we'd get from the coroner, too.

 

 

I have to admit I lol'd when I saw Nae's post making fun of the names - I'm getting them all mixed up too! Has anyone taken a look at pandy's viewing and what that means? I had a lot to read through today, and I might have missed it but I don't recall seeing any comment on this?

 

[mmeeshal]

I personally think that pandy was saying that since he viewed Adella and got Bonda Perrada as a result, and Lily viewed Adella and got Bonda Perrada as a result, that it must follow that the coroner report will only tell us that she's Bonda Perrada, not if she's town or scum.

 

It was his reasoning why we shouldn't vote for her just for information.

 

@Red--it's obviously playstyle differences, then.  You saw in the HP game, and I do this elsewhere too, I like hinting at my role, while trying to give proof with my actions, so that other people can guess.  If it becomes important for everyone to know, and not just those that are good at picking up hints, then I'll say "Yes, I'm role X."  But otherwise, I don't like spelling it out if it's not like a major role--like traditional doc or cop, for example.  I just don't feel safe sharing the information like that if it doesn't seem necessary.

 

Also, why does it seem too defensive to try and hide a mason group?  I admit that with the mechanics of this game, not all the same logic and rules will apply as in regular mafia, but it is an ingrained habit that you don't out groups of innocents unless you have to (as in, one of them is on the chopping block and the rest have to step forward to save that person).

[Alys Kinch]

so much to respond to and i am only on my phone. please bear with me.

 

first, barm (or maybe verbal- obviously his teamie), you are a liar. but hey, again don't believe me, someone else needs to view me. simple. the real question is why the hell are you trying to set me up? what do you gain? it didn't appear like it was gonna be that hard to lynch me. :/

 

brb with the next response.

[Barmacral]

No Alys dear, I'm not a liar. Thats the result I got back on you when I viewed you. You are Bonda Perrada. The fact that you're trying to hide it just convinces me that you are in fact scum.

[Naeann]

You're mostly correct, I think.

 

Thinking on it a little, I think you're right, people have already guessed what I've basically hinted at, so I might as well clear it up to some degree.

 

I suspect, as a matter of fact, that there are probably mason groups, or groupings of some sort, within each faction, but I could be wrong--I only know about my own piece of information, not the entire game setup.

 

Anyway, I am sure there are more Captains out there than just me and Bela and anyone else I may or may not know about.  So the Captains, as far as I know, are not one big mason group.  Perhaps the Captains are all broken up into little mason groups, perhaps I am right in thinking there are groups within the larger factions, only one group (aside from, as I believe, the mafia infiltrators) for each faction.

 

Either way, yes, I am a mason.  I knew Bela, she would have known me.  We were allowed to talk outside the thread, though we didn't actually do that due to the fact that she was sort of night killed and all.

 

This.  I agrees with it.... take that as you will.

[Al Jenn Mael]

[glow=red,2,300]unvote

Adella[/glow]

 

Like Wombat said I find that turn of phrase suspicious. I am Bonda Perrada, but my PM didn't say I won with Bonda Perrada only that when 'found' I would be named as Bonda Perrada. I'm not exactly sure how DPR has everything split up but so far my guess is:

 

The Challengers Faction

The Ministers   Faction

The Nuetral     Faction

 

And then we have

 

The Town

The Mafia

(Maybe Symps and Solo people as of right now who can choose to change their alignment)

 

 

So like I asked earlier about using the terms Ministers Man and The Challenger I now ask when refering to the groups call it Factions and when refering to Mafia/Town call it Alignment

 

It just makes it easier so we are all on the same page. I don't like confusion and misinterpretations.

 

Now I read a ways back about the finding. I didn't realize at the time that it wasn't a faction. It was simply just town-innocent. The viewing was 'cloudy' and after getting clarification a bonestone was involved. Does anyone have any more information on these 'bonestones'?

 

Now what are you guys continually arguing about the 'manipulators' for? Do you think this is yet another faction with some nefarious goal and not the mafia... I think yes DPR will have twists and confusion for us plenty, but I read that passage as simply the mafia getting together. Occams Razor.

 

Edit: Hmm, I see no reason to hide my faction. Good point Barm. *Sits back and waits*