Where do you think Demandred is?

[cannon]

From what I've read I really think Maj and Cloglord have it right.

 

Demandred was likely singled out very early on to lead the DO's army. Ever since that, he's been disrupting his major opponents as best as he can, while working through proxies. Cloglord's explanation of DMS's partnership really makes sense from an overall view of the events.

 

The only thing that's tough to gauge in terms of that partnership is Taim's role in Dumai's Wells. But personally, I think Taim has been jerked around by one Forsaken after another. He was freed by Liandrin's group, and then most likely sent to Ishmael. After that, I'm guessing Demandred took over while Ishy was busy being reincarnated. At some point, he came back under Moridin's wing, but he's always been brash and a bit of a loose cannon, so I can picture him saving Rand from the Aes Sedai, never realizing that it would have given Rand to Mesanna.

 

I am still curious about Sammael's comment about "events to the South" when he was with Grendael. I never figured out exactly what that might mean, and I always felt like that would finally give away Demandred's secrets.

[Mat is the Boss]

Actually, Taim probably saved Rand from the Shaido at Dumai Wells(they would have destroyed the Aes Sedai eventually), which means that he saved him from a trap laid by Sammael. I can see Demandred ordering a rescue just so that Sammael don`t get the pleasure of killing Rand.

[crash]

Demandred

 

General

Timeline

Strengths and Talents

Relationships

Theories

Miscellaneous

Quotes

 

 

 

General

 

Demandred, one of the thirteen original Forsaken, was born some 400 years before the War of Shadow with the name Barid Bel Medar.

 

Barid Bel Medar was tall, with dark hair and a hawk-nose. He was considered to be handsome, though not as much so as was Lews Therin Telamon, the man that Barid Bel hated most. (Guide). (Bashere? maybe)

 

In order to fully understand the man who would one day become Demandred, it is necessary to first understand his overwhelming hatred of Lews Therin Telamon. Barid Bel's life seemed to made up of 'almost' and 'not quite'. He wasn't as tall, nor as handsome as Lews Therin. He wasn't as talented or skilled as Lews Therin. Everything that Barid Bel could do, Lews Therin could do better.

 

Demandred was an acclaimed man, one of the most acclaimed of his age. He held several public offices, and is known to have written books on a wide variety of subjects during the Age of Legends, for which he received both critical and popular acclaim.

 

When the War of Power began, Barid Bel started out opposing the Shadow. For the first three years of the war, he was a high-ranking general within the army, due to his strategic vision and tactical flair. The only thing that kept him from surpassing Lews Therin in this area was that he was a gambler, and put too much stock in taking risks.

 

When Lews Therin was promoted above him, Barid Bel was, of course, disgusted. Angry, he once went so far as to say that, with Lews Therin in charge, the Shadow had a better chance of winning. It was Lews Therin's promotion that finally pushed him over the edge. He traveled to Shayol Ghul to pledge his soul to the Dark One, and took the name Demandred. (The Fires of Heaven, Chapter 3.)

 

After turning, Demandred turned his skills as a military general against the forces that he had previously fought along-side with. He turned out to be as good a general for the Shadow as he had been against it. (Guide) He also acted as governor over conquered territory several times, but always he returned to the battlefield; he wanted to be the one to personally kill Lews Therin Telamon.

 

During the War of Power, Demandred committed many heinous crimes. One of the most notorious incidents was capturing two cities and feeding them to the Trollocs. His reason? He believed that they had slighted him before the war. (Lord of Chaos, Chapter 2.) To him, this was a completely suitable fate for these people. Demandred believed that anyone who slighted him should be punished.

 

Like all of the other Forsaken, Demandred holds high hopes of being named Nae'blis. Though that hope must have been dimmed somewhat upon Moridin's ascension, he no doubt still hopes that he may one day achieve this station.

 

 

 

Timeline

 

-Barid Bel was born some 400 years before the War of Power. (Guide)

 

-Three years after the beginning of the War of Power, Barid Bel turns to the Shadow. (Lord of Chaos, Prologue.)

 

-Demandred and the other Forsaken are sealed into the Bore at Shayol Ghul. (???)

 

-Demandred escapes from the Bore. (Time Unknown.)

 

-Demandred meets Shaidar Haran at Shayol Ghul and speaks to the Dark One, who tempts him with the title of Nae'blis and gives him his orders. (Lord of Chaos, Prologue.)

 

-Demandred meets with Mesaana, Graendal and Semirhage and passes on his orders from the Dark Lord. (Lord of Chaos, Prologue.)

 

-Demandred meets again with Mesaana and Graendal. (Lord of Chaos, Chapter 6.)

 

-Demandred once again travels to Shayol Ghul. (Lord of Chaos, Epilogue.)

 

-Demandred meets with Graendal, Osan'gar and Aran'gar. Moridin and Cyndane also show up. (Winter's Heart, Chapter 13.)

 

-Demandred goes to Shadar Logoth in an attempt to stop Rand from cleansing saidin. (Winter's Heart, Chapter 35.)

 

 

 

Strengths and Talents

 

Like all of the other Forsaken, Demandred is very strong in the One Power, stronger than most of the men who can channel in today's world. We do not know his exact standing among the Forsaken, but it is safe to say that, no matter how powerful a channeler he is, he is less powerful than Ishamael and Moridin.

 

He is also known to have a talent that only three other's possess: Lews Therin (and therefore Rand) and Semirhage. This talent is to be able to block a gateway open, as Rand did when Aviendha ran away from him. (The Fires of Heaven, Chapter 32.)

 

Aside from the One Power, Demandred was a good military general. He had the skills and intellect, and put them to good use both for the Light, and against the Light.

 

 

 

Relationships with Other Characters

 

Demandred hated Lews Therin Telamon with a deep vengeance, his only reason being that Lews Therin achieved greater success than he did. Demandred is also known to have wanted Ilyena, Lews Therin's wife, to himself. All in all, Lews Therin was the reason that Demandred turned to the Shadow.

 

Demandred hates Rand as he hated Lews Therin. His hatred pretty much simply shifts from one to the other.

 

He is not known to have a particularly good relationship with the other Forsaken, especially Sammael. This most likely arises from the fact that, during the War of Power, both Demandred and Sammael were military generals, and both wanted the honor of killing Lews Therin.

 

Demandred, Mesaana and Semirhage have formed a loose alliance in which they have decided to eliminate all of the other Forsaken before turning on each other. (Winter's Heart, Chapter 13.)

 

 

 

Theories

 

Over time, many theories have been developed as to Demandred's identity and location.

 

One of the most popular theories is that Demandred has disguised himself as Mazrim Taim. There has been a lot of evidence as to this throughout the series. What better way to get revenge on Lews Therin Telamon/Rand al'Thor than to get close to him, and then back stab him? Also, Mazrim Taim ordered Rand's death in Winter's Heart. However, this theory came to an end when Robert Jordan came out and said that Demandred and Mazrim Taim are not the same person.

 

Another theory is that Demandred has placed himself with the Whitecloaks. As of now, we have had Forsaken scattered all over the world: Semirhage most likely in Seanchan, Mesaana in the White Tower, Graendal in Arad Domon, Sammael in Illian, Rhavin in Andor, and so on and so forth. But we have not yet seen any of them dealing with the Children of the Light. As for his exact identity, with this theory, it could be anyone.

 

Some people also believe that Demandred is working with Semirhage in Seanchan. To support this, there is the fact that Demandred, Mesaana and Semirhage are loosely allied.

 

Shara is also in the running, too, it seems. As with the argument for the Children of the Light, as of yet, only Graendal has shown the slightest interest in Shara. Once again, it would be a territory that no one has claimed, so to speak.

 

And of course, the Sea Folk. Once again, no other Forsaken are involved with them, that we know of. As the Sea Folk control a large number of women who can channel, it could prove a temptation to any of the Forsaken. There is no other proof for this theory.

 

With all of the theories as to Demandred's identity floating around, it is impossible to say who he is. Any of the above theories could be correct, or he could be disguised as someone else. There is also the possibility that he is simply not masquerading as anyone or anything. Ishamael has done it; Demandred could be doing the same.

 

In the words of Robert Jordan, I suppose we will just have to read and find out.

 

 

 

Miscellaneous

 

-Barid Bel Medar was born one day after Lews Therin Telamon. (Lord of Chaos, Prologue.)

 

-Barid Bel's hatred and jealousy grew with every honor that Lews Therin awarded him. (Guide.)

 

 

 

Quotes

 

"Should I expect more, Lanfear? Have you convinced Demandred to stop thinking he is all but the Great Lord's heir?" (Rahvin to Lanfear.) (The Fires of Heaven, Prologue.)

 

"Great Lord, the Dragon can be destroyed. He is ignorant and weak, scattering his attentions in a dozen directions." (Demandred to the Dark One) (Lord of Chaos, Prologue.)

 

"How much has the Great Lord known, for how long? How much of what has happened has been at his design all along?" (Demandred to Mesaana, Semirhage, Graendal) (Lord of Chaos, Prologue.)

 

"Let the Lord of Chaos rule." (Demandred to himself.) (Lord of Chaos, Chapter 7.)

 

"Why have you called us here? I have much to do, and no time for idle talk." (Demandred to Moridin.) (Winter's Heart, Chapter 13.)

[Thor]

I just don't understand. Apparently, Demandred was to "keep a watch on Rand". If he is with the borderlanders, how was he to accomplish his task?

[Dunedain Fal]

Actually' date=' Taim probably saved Rand from the Shaido at Dumai Wells(they would have destroyed the Aes Sedai eventually), which means that he saved him from a trap laid by Sammael. I can see Demandred ordering a rescue just so that Sammael don`t get the pleasure of killing Rand.[/quote']

 

No way, Rand did not need any rescuing. He freed himself from the Aes Sedai by stilling three women and could have skimmed away with Min or blast his way out.

[RobertAlexWillis]

No way, Rand did not need any rescuing. He freed himself from the Aes Sedai by stilling three women and could have skimmed away with Min or blast his way out.

 

No, the 40,000 Shaido and their Wise Ones (several hundred) could have overwhelmed the others (a couple thousand Aiel and some Wise Ones, 9 Aes Sedai, a couple hundred Two Rivers bowmen and 500 Mayeners), without Taim and his Asha'man. And PLEASE don't say the wolves would have made the difference.

 

Rand didn't escape the box until after the Asha'man were already on the scene. Thats because until they came, the 39 Tower Aes Sedai who captured him weren't hard pressed enough that they had to off the shield holding him. If the Asha'man hadn't showed up, Perrin's group would have been slaughtered, the 39 Tower Aes Sedai would all have been in Galina's shoes, and Rand would have become a captive of Sevanna.

[Randthepornstar]

Is there any way he could be Bashere? Just curious cause hes a general and all and showed up about the time as Asmo was killed. I know he has a wife and a daughter, but i kinda hate Faile anyways. If not him then I believe its the White Cloak Ansuwa (spelling?)

[rd2000]

I like Cloglords idea, except that Asuwana seems to be taking directions from Moridin/Ishy. In his POV in a gathering of other masked DF's, Asuwana wasn't named directly, but it became evident later that it was his POV we were seeing.

[vegetattack15]

Here is the problem, RJ has specifically stated (sorry RAW, I know you always want references) that Demandred is not any character we have been introduced to yet.

[RobertAlexWillis]

LOL ... don't worry Vegeta, I remember that quote too. And I can't find the reference either.

[DocBean]

I think it's safe to assume that the forsaken (with the possible exception of moridin) doesn't know what the DO intends to do with the world once he's free.

I wouldn't go that far' date=' but they do believe there will be a world after the DO breaks the wheel and that they'll have positions of power in what follows.

[/quote']

 

The first quote is correct, the only forsaken that knows that The Dark One actually plans to destroy the wheel of time and with it the world and time completely, ending all things - is Morridin, he's resigned to the fact that it will happen if the DO is allowed to do it, and knows that's the plan. All the others are plotting for higher spots in the next Age. One that they believe will be a Dark Age, they're wrong, the DO plans to end everything forever.

 

Come to think about it - Rand is in the 3rd Age, and there are 7 spokes to the Wheel of Time each representing an Age, I was under the impression that the 4th Age was ours and at the end of the 3rd Age would start it back from the beginning again, but I just realized, we've got a long ways to go before we swing back around to the 1st Age. sorry - off subject.

[DocBean]

Don't we know that the Wolf is in charge of the Borderlanders? He's the general they all trust, one of the top 2 or 3 generals still alive in all of Randland. Bryne one of the others, The Whitecloack guy that's now dead, and now maybe Turok or a Seanchan General.... I feel like I'm missing one.

 

Anyway, from the 1st person point of view we've had of the Wolf, it seems pretty obvious to me that he's a Borderlander, and not Dem. or being commanded by any Forsaken, unless he's being compelled against his knowledge.

 

My thought is the Borderlanders are Forsaken free, they've dealt with the shadow enough, they're probably skeptical of anyone jumping to power too quickly.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Lord Rodel Ituralde, known as the Wolf, is a general in Arad Doman, currently fighting on Almoth Plain after having drawn the Seanchan led by Lieutenant General Turan into a trap. He is not now, and has never been, in charge of anything in the Borderlands (which consist of Saldaea, Kandor, Arafel, and Shienar), or been a leader in the Borderlander army which is currently in Andor (and led by the monarchs of those four Borderland nations).

 

He is also definitely not Demandred.

 

He is one of the five widely acknowledged Great Captains of Randland, only one of whom is dead now. They are:

 

Lord Aglemar Jagad, ofShienar, alive and in Shienar at last report.

 

Lor Gareth Bryne, of Andor, currently leading the army of the Salidar Aes Sedai, just outside Tar Valon.

 

Lord Rodel Ituralde, of Arad Doman, see above.

 

Lord Davram Bashere, of Saldaea, currently with the Dragon Reborn.

 

Pedron Niall, Lord Captain Commander of the Children of the Light, killed by Lord Captain Omerna prior to the Seanchan conquering the Fortress of Light, succeeded by Lord Captain Eamon Valda, who was succeeded by Galadedrid Damodred.

 

Of course, if we're talking about pure skill, then the High Lord Turak would be a candidate (or would have been before Rand killed him), and His Flaming Highness Prince Bloody Matrim Cauthon would now certainly have to be added to the list.

 

As a ridiculous side note, since Tuon officially married him as "Bloody Matrim Cauthon", so you think his name will be recorded as such?

[DocBean]

So here's what we have so far from everyone that's talked about Demandred's location. He has been working everywhere.

He was in charge of send the Borderlanders south so that he can bring in his Trollocs and Myrandel South, Unfortunately Lan will be in his way. But not a problem, he is ordering Taim around and told him to "Let the Lord of Chaos Rule" so he's got male channelers in his back pocket.

 

He is also working in Murrandy, going to bring them all together so he has a strong force to the south to come north. He's been working with Shara so he has a strong force to the east to bring it West. He's the one that sent the Shaido all over the world, so he's got a few bad seeds all over the place, and was Sewing some Chaos.

 

He's working with the Seanchan so he has a pretty sizable force to the West to bring it on East, pluss since Seanchan in my mind is the USA (Isn't an Eagle one of their Symbols?) he has the best Air Force and Navy so that gives him control of the skys and seas. He's in charge of all the Dark forces so he'll bring them on down...... Wow, Demandred Rocks! I hope he wins.

 

Good job figuring him out everyone!

[DocBean]

Lord Rodel Ituralde' date=' known as the Wolf, is a general in Arad Doman, currently fighting on Almoth Plain after having drawn the Seanchan led by Lieutenant General Turan into a trap. He is not now, and has never been, in charge of anything in the Borderlands (which consist of Saldaea, Kandor, Arafel, and Shienar), or been a leader in the Borderlander army which is currently in Andor (and led by the monarchs of those four Borderland nations).[/quote']

 

yeah, i realized that after i wrote it. For some reason I was thinking Ituralde was a Borderlander, So Who's in charge of that force, Tigraine?

 

I also didn't realize Turok wasn't the guy I was thinking, I'm not really sure of who's in charge of the Seanchan, I was just trying to state that whoever it is must be in the top five. When it comes to top generals you'd also have to put the Aiel General that's with Rand and company. What's his name? And of course Matt may be the best, althought few know it yet.

 

Can you tell I haven't read the books in a couple years?

[Mat is the Boss]

Lord Aglemar Jagad, ofShienar, alive and in Shienar at last report.

I thought Angelmar joined King Easar on his trip down south. Didn`t he appear in Ethiennel`s POV? If Angelmar is with the four rulers, he is certainly in charge of the Borderlanders army.

 

I believe High Lord Galgan is the general in charge among the Seanchan at he moment.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I thought Angelmar joined King Easar on his trip down south. Didn`t he appear in Ethiennel`s POV? If Angelmar is with the four rulers, he is certainly in charge of the Borderlanders army.

 

Yep. My bad. Aglemar is mentioned in Ethenielle's POV as accompanying King Easar. Which puts him certainly in tactical command of the Shienaran forces. However, when I said I thought Demandred was behind the Borderlander army, I meant that he caused the rulers to move them south, not that he was the army's tactical commander.

 

I believe High Lord Galgan is the general in charge among the Seanchan at he moment.

 

That he is, although nothing is mentioned about his particular prowess or lack thereof in battle or as a tactician.