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No Darkfriends in the Band of the Red Hand or Perrin's Followers?


Sentinel78
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Moridin has put a bounty on the heads of Mat and Perrin, and has disseminated their names and likenesses to all of the Forsaken as well as many Darkfriends.  Verin implies that Mat's level of danger is incredibly high and suggests that he hide out.  Vane recognized Mat in the 'hell' in KoD and rounded up 20 or so Darkfriends in about a half-hour to try to take him out.  Two archers tried to assassinate Perrin in KoD when he shows up totally unexpectedly in a Seanchan supply camp to request Forkroot (i.e., this attack must have been spontaneous) and then killed themselves when they failed.

 

I think it's safe to say that any Darkfriend that identifies Mat or Perrin is likely to attempt an assassination attempt, or at least run and get help immediately to carry out an attempt.  However, Mat and Perrin are both leading thousands of soldiers and other camp followers right now, and there has not been one assassination attempt on them within their respective camps.  For example, there has been no suspicious poisoning of food or other acts that we are aware of.

 

My question is this:

 

Does this mean there is not one Darkfriend among the Band of the Red Hand and/or Perrin's oddball assortment of followers?

 

I've considered that any Darkfriends in their respective camps might be 'out of the loop' and not have had a chance to receive the kill-order.  I don't think this is likely because (i) the Shiny Dragon Man that appeared to Masema and issued the kill-order on Perrin, and (ii) Moghedien and Cyndane are following up on Moridin's orders to kill Mat/Perrin, and both are masters of TAR and could simply contacts Darkfriends via dreams (as we saw Ishamael do in Book 3 for instance).

 

I've read speculation that Masuri or some of Perrin's other Aes Sedai could be Darkfriends due to their secret meetings in Masema's camp - but if so - they could kill Perrin any time they choose (with personal risk to themselves, yes), so I rule this out.

 

Thoughts?

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Perrin and Mat where so low on the Forsaken's radar (don't know why) that none of them sent agents into their camps.

 

Perrin might have darkfriends in the refuges but none of them can get close to Perrin without him being surronded by several others, among them Aiel, AM, and AS.

 

Mat's ta'vereness attracked people who wanted to fight the shadow (it was never a secret they were dragonsworn) and every one of them would die to protect Mat.

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Obviously any Darkfriends that try to join the Band of the Red Hand trip and fall onto their swords immediately after signing up... and Perrin is traveling around with Tam, so Darkfriends avoid them.

 

I did think Semirhage's reaction was kind of funny when Moridin showed them pictures of Perrin and Mat in Book 10 or 11, though.  She comments that if he had shared these pictures before, they might have already killed them, and you know (knowing now that she was Anath), that she had to recognize Mat when she saw him.

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I actually find it incredibly doubtful that Mat and Perrin have no darkfriends among them. They are Rands closest friends; that alone is reason enough to keep an eye on them, even without taking the whole ta`veren thing into account. Mats army is roughly about 30 000 troops; people are saying there isnt one darkfriend among them? Come on. Sammael especially would have had a heap of interest in Mat, since he was under the impression for a while that Mat was helping in invading Illian.

 

I doubt it will be long before we see darkfriends actually do something. Getting close to Mat and Perrin, close enough to kill anyway, would be hard. Carridin was told to kill Rand, but he didn't just walk up to him and try and stab him with a sword. He hired other people, waited for an opportunity, etc etc. Not all darkfriends are idiotic.

 

I did think Semirhage's reaction was kind of funny when Moridin showed them pictures of Perrin and Mat in Book 10 or 11, though.  She comments that if he had shared these pictures before, they might have already killed them, and you know (knowing now that she was Anath), that she had to recognize Mat when she saw him.

 

yeah, that was extremely amusing. And also kind of weird. Moridin had showed Mat and Perrin "pictures" to darkfriends, you think he would have done the same to Forsaken.

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yeah, that was extremely amusing. And also kind of weird. Moridin had showed Mat and Perrin "pictures" to darkfriends, you think he would have done the same to Forsaken.

 

Maybe he thought the other Forsaken would have the sense to have already figured out who the other two ta'veren were?  Maybe that's why he was so ticked, because he had to actually show them a picture for them to figure out who they were going after.  After all, what else have they been doing if they couldn't have figured that out already?  I do agree it's a little odd that they would not know, though.  Ishamael was burning their images into Darkfriends minds as early as book one or two.

 

Kind of makes you wonder what the Chosen do with their time... I get the feeling they leave plenty of time for just sort of lounging around, and that's why the Dark One gets ticked when you don't answer his summons... well, that and because he's the Dark One.

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I figure that the reason mat and perrin have not been killed by df's in their camp is because DF's want immortality usually, and killing the leader of their camp who has an honour guard and getting away would be a difficult feat to ancomplish

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I figure that the reason mat and perrin have not been killed by df's in their camp is because DF's want immortality usually, and killing the leader of their camp who has an honour guard and getting away would be a difficult feat to ancomplish

 

Yeah, that seems likely, not the best idea to assassinate a leader of a few thousand soldiers. Also I think the DF in their respective camps would be used as informants, so that if the assassinations fail (which they have numerous times) the DF will still be in camp, feeding information to the Chosen and what not. If the people in the camps tried to assassinate them, 1. they would have to intergrate new spies 2. Mat and Perrin would instantly be on guard, weary of all of their followers which would likely end in DF's being exposed.

 

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We know there's no darkfriends in the Two Rivers (at least before the refugees come in) because the Dark One had to send for Fain to get eyes in that region. Any darkfriend there would have been set to the task of taking Rand, Mat and Perrin once Fain did find them.

 

Perrin probably has a number of darkfriends in his camp. There's been some thought that some of the Aes Sedai were Black Ajah too.

 

Mat was attacked by some Aiel in the night at one point. That's when he starts fortifying his camp, but didn't he find proof that they were sent there via traveling? I find it likely that if he didn't have darkfriends in the Band then, he does now. Somebody willing to put that much effort into taking him out would not give up because their attack failed.

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We know there's no darkfriends in the Two Rivers (at least before the refugees come in) because the Dark One had to send for Fain to get eyes in that region. Any darkfriend there would have been set to the task of taking Rand, Mat and Perrin once Fain did find them.

 

Perrin probably has a number of darkfriends in his camp. There's been some thought that some of the Aes Sedai were Black Ajah too.

 

Mat was attacked by some Aiel in the night at one point. That's when he starts fortifying his camp, but didn't he find proof that they were sent there via traveling? I find it likely that if he didn't have darkfriends in the Band then, he does now. Somebody willing to put that much effort into taking him out would not give up because their attack failed.

The Aiel were sent by Sammy.  Mat was leading the Band to Tear and once he arrived the invasion would begin.  He was being used as a lure to have Sammy watching him, then the massed army so when the invasion begun Sammy would leave to fight Mat while Rand and Bashere came in behind him.  Like what happened.

 

The rest of the forsaken kinda left Sammy to hang in the wind.

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Moridin has put a bounty on the heads of Mat and Perrin, and has disseminated their names and likenesses to all of the Forsaken as well as many Darkfriends.

 

  Yes, however Mat & Perrin's groups each have been on the move the whole time since that command was given.  Only stopping in a few real towns are all.  In Perrin's party there is a good chance that Annoura Larisen is a Black Ajah.  Meanwhile in Mat's party there is a good chance Noal has been used by the Shadow's side.  Each of these characters has mysteriously disappeared and in Annoura's case met with Masema in 'secret'.  Annoura additionally was tied to political manipulations involving Colavaere in Cairhien, when Rand was kidnapped in a plan hatched by Mesaana & Demandred (L.T.T.'s voice claims Demandred), and operationally run by Galina & Katerine.

 

 

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Moridin has put a bounty on the heads of Mat and Perrin, and has disseminated their names and likenesses to all of the Forsaken as well as many Darkfriends.

 

  Yes, however Mat & Perrin's groups each have been on the move the whole time since that command was given.  Only stopping in a few real towns are all.  In Perrin's party there is a good chance that Annoura Larisen is a Black Ajah.  Meanwhile in Mat's party there is a good chance Noal has been used by the Shadow's side.  Each of these characters has mysteriously disappeared and in Annoura's case met with Masema in 'secret'.  Annoura additionally was tied to political manipulations involving Colavaere in Cairhien, when Rand was kidnapped in a plan hatched by Mesaana & Demandred (L.T.T.'s voice claims Demandred), and operationally run by Galina & Katerine.

Ishy said he used "Noal" then tossed him aside when done with him.

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Noal does seem to be acting on plans even he doesn't know, though. I think we'll see the fruits of Ishamael's labor during the ToG scene. I'm hoping anyway, it'd clear up for us just what Ishamael did to him. It would also put Mat and Thom in their places to learn Noal is really Farstrider. Both of them seem to make light of Noal's stories.

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Noal does seem to be acting on plans even he doesn't know, though. I think we'll see the fruits of Ishamael's labor during the ToG scene. I'm hoping anyway, it'd clear up for us just what Ishamael did to him. It would also put Mat and Thom in their places to learn Noal is really Farstrider. Both of them seem to make light of Noal's stories.

 

I would be extremely surprised if Thom doesn't know who Noal is by now; its just his character to make light of people. Look at book 1 and how many times he had remarks about Aes Sedai and stuff. Its just how he does things.

 

Yes, however Mat & Perrin's groups each have been on the move the whole time since that command was given.  Only stopping in a few real towns are all.  In Perrin's party there is a good chance that Annoura Larisen is a Black Ajah.  Meanwhile in Mat's party there is a good chance Noal has been used by the Shadow's side.  Each of these characters has mysteriously disappeared and in Annoura's case met with Masema in 'secret'.  Annoura additionally was tied to political manipulations involving Colavaere in Cairhien, when Rand was kidnapped in a plan hatched by Mesaana & Demandred (L.T.T.'s voice claims Demandred), and operationally run by Galina & Katerine.

 

Annoura is a possibility, but I doubt it. Egwene would certainly have noticed an advisor to an ally of Rands in the list of darkfriends.

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Chances are, darkfriends among their followers have had the intent to kill them, but the ta'veren nature of these characters has either distracted/prevented the attempts from taking place.  Much in the way Verin was distracted from traveling away from Mat and the Band during TGS, instead of her not ACTUALLY being able to open the gateway, things happened that prevented her from taking the first steps to opening the gateway.

 

So in this case, the darkfriends may have shown up at Mat's tent during a time when he was out inspecting on rounds, or the darkfriend realized he forgot his knife in his tent or some such thing.

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I've written a theory about Annoura and Masuri being Darkfriends which can be found here.

 

Annoura is a possibility, but I doubt it. Egwene would certainly have noticed an advisor to an ally of Rands in the list of darkfriends.

 

Does Egwene even know who Annoura is? Much less that she is near anyone important? Egwene left Cairhein long before Annoura revealed herself.

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I've written a theory about Annoura and Masuri being Darkfriends which can be found here.

 

Annoura is a possibility, but I doubt it. Egwene would certainly have noticed an advisor to an ally of Rands in the list of darkfriends.

 

Does Egwene even know who Annoura is? Much less that she is near anyone important? Egwene left Cairhein long before Annoura revealed herself.

 

No she doesn't.  Annoura wasn't discovered until the first few chapters in ACOS when Rand confronts Coulavere on the Sun Throne.

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Moridin has put a bounty on the heads of Mat and Perrin, and has disseminated their names and likenesses to all of the Forsaken as well as many Darkfriends.

 

  Yes, however Mat & Perrin's groups each have been on the move the whole time since that command was given.  Only stopping in a few real towns are all.

 

I am beginning to wonder if Hinderstap was a trap set by DO agents to snare Mat in a 'whirlpool' in the Pattern.

 

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Annoura is a possibility, but I doubt it. Egwene would certainly have noticed an advisor to an ally of Rands in the list of darkfriends.

 

Does Egwene even know who Annoura is? Much less that she is near anyone important? Egwene left Cairhein long before Annoura revealed herself.

 

I think its more important whether or not, Verin Sedai knows who Annoura really is.  Egwene's biggest resource about Black Ajah is Verin's books.  Is Annoura on Verin's list of Black Ajah or not?  Verin did visit the Drowned Lands in past, and the Drowned Lands are the northern border of Mayene.  Annoura likely has not been in place for very long as an advisor, as Berelain is still young woman.  But how long was Annoura in the White Tower for, when Verin was there?  Was Annoura the one who arranged the escape of Katerine in Aiel camps Cairhien?  If Verin did not know that Annoura was a Black Ajah that would explain a lot of things.

   

Its odd I think that Annoura remained in Mayene, while Berelain was a 'guest' of Be'lal's in Tear over the winter (TDR,Ch53).  Its even more unusual that Annoura suggests destroying the letter from Suroth to Masema (CoT,Ch6), which gave Masema's mob protection from the Seanchan military.  Suroth's a darkfriend, Masema was brainwashed by the Shadow in his Dreams, and Annoura is a big question, who seems almost certain to be a yet unidentified Black Ajah.

 

 

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Obviously theres nothing to point this out in the series, but it seems like Verin would definetly check up on Aes Sedai who were advisors to Rands allies. She spent alot of time travelling - in fact she was hardly in the Whitetower and would dissapear for ages at a time.

 

Same with Egwene really. She made it her business to know of every ruler, and with her wanting to be Amyrlin Seat and restore Tar Valon to its former glory she would also make it her business to know of the Aes Sedai advising them.

 

However, that is all pure speculation and hardly conclusive at all. If Annoura did turn out to be a darkfriend it wouldnt be the biggest shock in the series. And she has certainly been acting suspicious.

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