A Match In Power

[Deap]

Does any woman match Lews Therin in strength?

[jemron]

Short answer:  no.

[DemandredFO]

No, I'm pretty sure it's stated that men are stronger but there are balances.  Women can link to 13 w/o men and stuff.

[Deap]

Well - I just read in SaSG - That "Latra Posae apparently rose to a prominence which rivaled that of Lews Therin before her." I wasn't sure if it was meant that her political or military influence was amplified to the likes of His - or if her power as an Aes Sedai suddenly reached its full potential.

 

 

[jemron]

Well - I just read in SaSG - That "Latra Posae apparently rose to a prominence which rivaled that of Lews Therin before her." I wasn't sure if it was meant that her political or military influence was amplified to the likes of His - or if her power as an Aes Sedai suddenly reached its full potential.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure this was in political influence, not strength in the Power.  She convinced most of the Aes Sedai in the Age of Legends to NOT go through with Lews Therin's plan to go directly to Shayol Ghul and attempt to seal the bore, so Lews Therin took the Hundred Companions (all men) and did it anyway.

 

We'll probably never know if her decision helped to protect the female half of the True Source (saidar) from being tainted, or if the sealing of the bore would have worked better if she had given in to Lews Therin's plan and allowed woman channelers to help out.

[Cirin]

Kind of makes you wonder if Egwene and Latra Posae share a soul... in a since, that would almost make sense - Latra did not support Llews Therin the first time, and each rebirth is a chance to fix your mistakes.

 

But, I doubt that will ever really come up in the story.  Just an interesting thought to speculate.

[MikeRiley]

If she was we'd have heard more about it. Latra Posae is probably a flower girl in the Cairhien slums right now.

 

Robert Jordan said that if both Saidin and Saidar were used at Shayol Ghul then both halves would have been tainted. So we'd probably have seen complete madness and a breaking at least twice as bad as it was.

[Duskfire]

If both Saidin and Saidar got tainted, I imagine that human life would cease to be, or the very least dwindle to such a minor population that it eventually dies out anyway. Female Aes Sedai would have been a major reason why people even survived in the first place.

 

To the original question: no one matches Lews Therin in strength, male or female. Even Ishamael the strongest of the Forsaken got soundly beaten twice during the Age of Legends. He was/is on a level of his own.

[bohika5]

 

 

To the original question: no one matches Lews Therin in strength, male or female. Even Ishamael the strongest of the Forsaken got soundly beaten twice during the Age of Legends. He was/is on a level of his own.

 

This is incorrect. Ishamael/Moridin is his equal. Strength doesn't necessarily equate to level of competence.

[profbacon]

correct.  there is a nice website that laid it all out, who ranked with who.

 

Kind of interesting, Lanfear was number 1, then as Cydane, she is still number 1.  Graendel was 2, then 3 was some random Shaido Aiel.

[FarShainMael]

prof, could you link to that for us please, would be interesting!

 

[Bela_theDo]

A helpful link for strength level :

 

http://13depository.blogspot.com/2009/02/saidar-strength-ranking.html

[FarShainMael]

Thanks!

 

[TheDecline01]

Interesting ranking.

 

But if Sorilea is supposed to be so much weak in the OP, how can she be such a fast learner (she's supposed to be Nyneave-like, learning a weave only seeing it once) while it is suggested, though never explicitly stated, that strong channelers learn faster?

 

Have I missed something?

[Luckers]

Interesting ranking.

 

But if Sorilea is supposed to be so much weak in the OP, how can she be such a fast learner (she's supposed to be Nyneave-like, learning a weave only seeing it once) while it is suggested, though never explicitly stated, that strong channelers learn faster?

 

Have I missed something?

 

I've missed this moment where Sorilea is said to be a fast learner?

[Luckers]

Interesting. Well, whilst stronger channelers seem to learn faster in general I don't see why there might not be a weak channeler or two who happen to be fast as well.

[Otarin]

She is also really old (by AS standards) and has been working with the power for a really long time.  The more you do something the faster you can learn something closely related. 

[Duskfire]

I had read a quote from RJ a while ago that Rand was on a level of his own in terms of channeling strength, thus my adamant response that no one matches him. However, I can't find it at all so I was probably simply wrong, or dreaming or something.  :P

[Durinax]

I would imagine speed in learning would also be based on how strong a persons will is.

 

but I could see egwene being Lutra reborn, Egwene almost never supports rand like Lutra didnt support LTT

[Axon]

I had read a quote from RJ a while ago that Rand was on a level of his own in terms of channeling strength, thus my adamant response that no one matches him. However, I can't find it at all so I was probably simply wrong, or dreaming or something.  :P

 

The only individual who it is ever stated or implied can match Rand/LTT is Ishmael/Moridin. Other characters occasionally claim to match LTT, but generally this is stated by the characters themselves and not by RJ (though Brandon, apparently, has a list of where everyone ranks). So it sounds more like boasting than truth.

 

Either way, if you go toe to to with Rand/LTT, it's 99.9% your ass. Rand embarrassed Elayne and Egwene once, and they are supposed to be massively powerful. This is when they were all still raw, but I think that, without an angreal or better, Rand to take them both.  Lanfear as well - needed an angreal to become a true threat to him.  You don't get the name "The Dragon" without, you know, being a bad ass.  :P

[Sentinel78]

From:  http://www.dragonmount.com/RobertJordan/?m=200510

 

For Gyrehead, Foretelling is not related to strength.  The weakest possible channeler could Foretell as strongly as Elaida or Nicola, or perhaps even more so, depending entirely on the strength of his or her Talent for Foretelling.  The three Red Sitters were sent into exile in 985 NE under Marith Jaen.  Yes, Morgase has slowed, and that is exactly why there is so much emphasis on her looking only ten years older than Perrin when she has children the ages of Elayne and Gawyn.  Regarding the percentage of women who could test for the shawl, it would be 62.5% of the bellcurve.  I’ll leave the maths to you for an idle moment.  The question doesn’t really apply to men, since the Black Tower accepts anyone who can learn to channel, but if the White Tower limits were applied, it would be roughly 65.4% of the bellcurve.  Although, considering the effectiveness question, they should probably set it at the same 62.5%.  Again, the maths are all yours.  Regarding the levels of male strength, while the weakest man and the weakest woman would be roughly equivalent, you might say that there are several levels of male strength on top of the female levels.  Remember to integrate this with what I’ve said elsewhere about effectiveness, though.

 

Rand is at the highest level that we know of.  The Companion book stated under Ishamael's write-up that he was the only man that matched LTT, with Aginor/Dashiva in second.

 

Also, we all know that Lanfear was the strongest female channeler in the AoL(at least until Alivia, and possibly Sharina).  Lanfear thought no woman 'could' be stronger than her, for instance.  Despite this, consider Rahvin's POV from Book 5:

 

"Is he really so strong?" Rahvin asked quietly. "This Rand al'Thor. Could he have overwhelmed you, face-to-face?" Not that he himself could not, if it came to it, or Sammael, though Graendal would likely link with Lanfear if either of the men tried. For that matter, both women were probably filled to bursting with the Power right that moment, ready to strike at the slightest suspicion of either man. Or of each other. But this farmboy. An untrained shepherd! Untrained unless Asmodean was trying.

 

"He is Lews Therm Telamon reborn," Lanfear said just as softly, "and Lews Therin was as strong as any."

 

Clearly, Rahvvin thought he and Sammael could take Lanfear down easily (by herself anyway), and they weren't even the strongest of the male Forsaken.

 

Also, LTT/Rand is considered as strong as any, meaning no one was stronger in the AoL, and from everything we've seen no one is stronger now (again, excepting Ishamael/Moridin as an equal).

 

Thus, no man is stronger than Rand in the One Power, and no woman is as strong as Rand in the One Power, although it is at least theoretically possible that Sharina/Alivia could control saidar sufficiently to overcome this deficit.  This is of course under the assumption that LTT=Rand in strength, which seems the case.

[Luckers]

Rand is at the highest level that we know of.  The Companion book stated under Ishamael's write-up that he was the only man that matched LTT, with Aginor/Dashiva in second.

 

The Guide doesn't say Ishamael was the only man to equal Lews Therin. None of the other male Forsaken that were trapped in the bore did, though Aginor and Demandred come close.

 

However it seems highly unlikely to me that no other men equalled Lews Therin or Ishamael. In the Age of Legends roughly 3% of the population could channel. That's hundreds of thousands, if not millions of men who could channel. Men of that strength would be rare, even so--Maria said it was a bell curve in power distribution--but I find it very unlikely Lews Therin and Ishamael were the only two. Thet are simply the only two of that strength we've been introduced to.

 

Also, we all know that Lanfear was the strongest female channeler in the AoL(at least until Alivia, and possibly Sharina).  Lanfear thought no woman 'could' be stronger than her, for instance.  Despite this, consider Rahvin's POV from Book 5:

 

 

Quote

"Is he really so strong?" Rahvin asked quietly. "This Rand al'Thor. Could he have overwhelmed you, face-to-face?" Not that he himself could not, if it came to it, or Sammael, though Graendal would likely link with Lanfear if either of the men tried. For that matter, both women were probably filled to bursting with the Power right that moment, ready to strike at the slightest suspicion of either man. Or of each other. But this farmboy. An untrained shepherd! Untrained unless Asmodean was trying.

 

"He is Lews Therm Telamon reborn," Lanfear said just as softly, "and Lews Therin was as strong as any."

 

Clearly, Rahvvin thought he and Sammael could take Lanfear down easily (by herself anyway), and they weren't even the strongest of the male Forsaken.

 

RJ's warned us we cannot trust the Forsaken's judgements of their strengths relative to others--for instance Moghedian implies that Nynaeve was stronger than Rahvin when she meets her in tSR. So which do we disbelieve--is Rahvin being over-proud of his strength, or Moghedian of hers via comparison to Nynaeves?

 

I'd say both.

[Lilbaz]

Saying Isshy is equal to Rand in the one power is a moot point. We have never seen him use it, he has only ever used the True Power. Is there a correlation to how much of the OP you can use with how much of the TP?

[scott_swampy]

Rand is at the highest level that we know of.  The Companion book stated under Ishamael's write-up that he was the only man that matched LTT, with Aginor/Dashiva in second.

 

The Guide doesn't say Ishamael was the only man to equal Lews Therin. None of the other male Forsaken that were trapped in the bore did, though Aginor and Demandred come close.

 

However it seems highly unlikely to me that no other men equalled Lews Therin or Ishamael. In the Age of Legends roughly 3% of the population could channel. That's hundreds of thousands, if not millions of men who could channel. Men of that strength would be rare, even so--Maria said it was a bell curve in power distribution--but I find it very unlikely Lews Therin and Ishamael were the only two. Thet are simply the only two of that strength we've been introduced to.

 

Also, we all know that Lanfear was the strongest female channeler in the AoL(at least until Alivia, and possibly Sharina).  Lanfear thought no woman 'could' be stronger than her, for instance.  Despite this, consider Rahvin's POV from Book 5:

 

 

Quote

"Is he really so strong?" Rahvin asked quietly. "This Rand al'Thor. Could he have overwhelmed you, face-to-face?" Not that he himself could not, if it came to it, or Sammael, though Graendal would likely link with Lanfear if either of the men tried. For that matter, both women were probably filled to bursting with the Power right that moment, ready to strike at the slightest suspicion of either man. Or of each other. But this farmboy. An untrained shepherd! Untrained unless Asmodean was trying.

 

"He is Lews Therm Telamon reborn," Lanfear said just as softly, "and Lews Therin was as strong as any."

 

Clearly, Rahvvin thought he and Sammael could take Lanfear down easily (by herself anyway), and they weren't even the strongest of the male Forsaken.

 

RJ's warned us we cannot trust the Forsaken's judgements of their strengths relative to others--for instance Moghedian implies that Nynaeve was stronger than Rahvin when she meets her in tSR. So which do we disbelieve--is Rahvin being over-proud of his strength, or Moghedian of hers via comparison to Nynaeves?

 

I'd say both.

 

I don't see why this would be so unlikely. Rand is after all the light's champion, and ishydin is the dark's.

[Duskfire]

Regardless of whether or not Rand is the most powerful, its still highly unlikely anyone could beat him in a straight out fight (obviously Semihrage got close, but that trick won't work again.) Ishamael may be on the same level, but Rand still kicked his ass three times in a row, and that was without his current experience or skills. Now Ishy would have no hope.