Does Tam realise Rand is a blademaster?

[Graveyardhag]

Rand is not "technically" a blademaster though. There were no witnesses to his defeat of Turak, and witnesses are needed to gain the title.

Also the seanchan blademasters are not as skilled as others. The standards are lower or some such thing.

I'm sure Rands skill was enough to have the title if they bothered to find some blademasters to vote on it however.

 

Since no one else did, I'm going to have to call BS on the bolded part unless you can provide quotes.

 

I had a quick look where I thought it was (Terez's interview database) but I couldn't find it. I'll try to have a proper look tomorrow. If I cant find it, then BS it is ;)

Essentially, the question was something about Turak fighting someone and if he would win, and the answer was no, because the Seanchen blademasters are not as skilled as the main continent ones.

But if I cant find it, I will have to conclude that I imagined it.

[torrente]

I liked it better when he had the heron-marked blade.

[Durinax]

it makes sense for the seanchan to be inferior swordsmen, they do rely on damane quite heavily, so their skills arent as battle hardened

[aunt_pol]

Tam's a cute oul' hoor. I'd say he heard plenty while with Perrin. Not from Perrin, but campfire stuff etc. He knows more than he wanted to now, anyroads...

[Darkspot]

it makes sense for the seanchan to be inferior swordsmen, they do rely on damane quite heavily, so their skills arent as battle hardened

 

Seriously?  The ones who actually train for war constantly, and did have conflicts all over their country, and actually held to previous traditions so heavily?

 

If anything I'd say the noble blademasters on this side would suck, since most don't see war.  The generals, like Bryne, and such are probably very good due to tried and true methods.  Also I'm sure the borderlands has some great ones (Lan for instance).  But if Riatin, a spoiled noble Cairhienin can be really good, then I would say Seanchan have more than plenty of possibility to be as well.

[Durinax]

well almost all of their wars where decades ago, except for rebellions, in which they mostly destroyed them with damane before going in with the sword

 

there is a big difference between training and being bloodied so to speak

 

I think in randland they would do a lot more sword training than in seanchan because they cannot use the power to kill from long distances, and thus havent grown reliant on that ability

 

as for southerners like Riatin, he would have had the best tutors, and would have been in a few wars before, so his methods would be tried. Plus he would be expected to lead in battles since he is a noble, and thus would have to be able to defend himself, it could be he liked the sword and kept pushing himself to be better.

[Darkspot]

So a noble can have great tutors, but one of the blood, roughly royalty for Seanchan can't?

 

As I said, borderlanders I'd give good credit, I still think the rest of the randlanders are soft, especially nobles.

[Hadilmir]

As I said, borderlanders I'd give good credit, I still think the rest of the randlanders are soft, especially nobles.

I'd have to agree with you, but there's always That One who does something different. In this case Toram Riatin...

 

I think the real reason Turok lost was his toying with Rand. He didn't consider him a threat just like the end of Valda and Galads' duel.

[Durinax]

So a noble can have great tutors, but one of the blood, roughly royalty for Seanchan can't?

 

As I said, borderlanders I'd give good credit, I still think the rest of the randlanders are soft, especially nobles.

I didnt mean that the seanchan dont have tutors

 

I am just trying to say that since Damane are the cornerstone of their military that swords dont hold the same importance in seanchan so they dont focus on it, and dont advance their understanding of swordplay like they would have to in randland, and with that downplayed significance the amount of cultivated skill would be somewhat lower, because it isnt as important so they dont train it up to the same levels. I hope that made sense

[Darkspot]

If that were really the case, would deathwatch guards, or the gardeners be nearly as frightening to everyone as they are?

[Durinax]

If that were really the case, would deathwatch guards, or the gardeners be nearly as frightening to everyone as they are?

elite troops often frighten the populous, especially when they are high above quite a few things, and have a wide range of property and are known not to suffer insults, and would die if an imperial family member said to

[chuckievi]

The books are riddled with instances of how the 'Chan's military stacks up as well if not better than the Randland side of the ocean.  This isn't just because of using channelers in their ranks, but because of their scouting, their discipline, and it seems obvious their prowess in fighting.

[Durinax]

The books are riddled with instances of how the 'Chan's military stacks up as well if not better than the Randland side of the ocean.  This isn't just because of using channelers in their ranks, but because of their scouting, their discipline, and it seems obvious their prowess in fighting.

and we have seen several examples of the exact opposite too, during mats quick campaign and Ituraldes. As soon as their channellers are taken care of randlanders have a way easier time destroying them vs them not having channellers. they relied heavily on channellers in destroying shaido septs too, using their swords only to force them close together so the channellers could destroy them.

 

and they do have good scouting, although like ituralde said they rely on that too heavily also

[Darkspot]

When you go from having people who can kill hundreds if not thousands with the power, to just going on a one to one assault, it makes a huge difference.

 

Back in the Trolloc Wars Aes Sedai could kill tons of people.

 

- Rashima died during the battle, along with her five Warders. Around their bodies a wall of Trolloc and Myrddraal corpses was found, along with the bodies of no fewer than nine Dreadlords.

 

She was an Aes Sedai from the Trolloc Wars, an Amyrlin actually, but still, if one can cause that much havoc, people, who potentially may be like Alivia can do a lot.  I would think neutralizing channelers, however good, would make a huge difference on either side, no matter what.  Could you imagine Rand's side at Dumai's wells if the channelers weren't for him?

[farthammer]

Channeling can only take you so far.  It doesn't do you any good to try and conquer only to blow entire cities because it raises the risk they'd retaliate in kind, and what's the point of conquering if you don't leave anything left to take anyways.  So having excellent swordsman is pretty important when the battles get down to the city level, no reason to think the Seanchan would necessarily be bad at it.

[MikeRiley]

If your battle plan involves a number of damane and then they are all suddenly killed off, you're not going to have much of a battle plan. This has nothing to do with how well the Seanchan themselves actually fight in hand to hand combat.

 

The damane aren't used everywhere, either. Not everybody can afford them.

 

Regarding the argument that the Randland blademasters practice more or get better training.. Warders are known to practice with real blades because that is the only way to truly sharpen your skills. Wooden swords only take you so far. Actual battle experience is the next step up from practicing with real blades. I know people who can play at fighting but can't stand the sight of blood, for an idea.

 

Either way, I see no reason to believe that either side is any better than the other. The standards are likely the same and are probably a remnant from a time even before the Seanchan first sailed out of Randland.

 

 

Edit: Just a thought here on Rand's current blademaster status. With the loss of his hand I do not believe he is one any longer. If he was and he was killed now in combat by a veteran swordsman (but not blademaster quality) then that swordsman would become a blademaster - and that really is a low standard. There would be a quality check of some sort in place to prevent farmers from cheating their way to the rank.

[darth_hel]

Blademaster seems more of a cultural heritage than an actual society though. Yea you can get 5 blademasters to approve you but it sounded to me like that could be somewhat informal. Rand was wandering around with a heron blade for a while and it's not like anyone called him out on it. Without an actual society of blademasters I wouldn't think there'd be strict rules on removing someone from being a blademaster, if you met either of the criteria you've earned the right to wear the sword, if you know longer deserve it you'll be killed by someone eventually and if they don't deserve it they'll be killed off too.

[Tommatt]

In my original question,I'm currently in my reread in book 4. At that time it'd say a lot to a man who hasn't seen his sone in a year?  year and a half?  Obviously he'd have killed a blademaster. Even as of TgS, for someone who doesn't know much of whats happened to Rand, it'd say something. 

 

Darkspot, while you're right on how much damage the power can do, you forget how weak the Aes Saidi (I spelled that totally wrong) are now.  Nyvene is as strong as the strongest channelere we know (I believe) Elayne and Egwene would be considered talented in the AoL, but from what we know, they far surpass most Aes Saidi.  As the Seachan raid showed, they know nothing of warfare, and are weak overall.

[Sharaman]

Rand didn't consider himself a blademaster if you go by the conversation he had with Nyn - due to lack of witnesses. He doesn't care either.

There are both one-handed and one-a-half-handed katana around, so he could have re-learnt the forms. In fact, Bashere and he have a conversation about it right after his hand is vaporised.

 

Turak started taking Rand easily until Rand went into "flame focus" and then he couldn't re-adjust fast enough. Has little to do with overall skill across continents. I can't remember any textual statement or quote by RJ about Seanchan being either generically better or worse with the sword. Brandon may have said something.

 

Narishma claims that every Borderlander is trained and that he, a cobbler's son, is better with the sword than most Southron soldiers. Since N can actually fight a series of training bouts with Lan (though he keeps losing), one has to assume that he's not whistling Dixie. 

 

Perrin wouldn't even have known, or cared, about the whole blademaster ritual thing (challenge, duel, witness, blah-blah) and he was very cautious discussing Rand and Mat with Tam and Abell in TSR when he met them again. Perrin doesn't even think of it once. So it's very doubtful that Perrin would have told Tam.

 

Maybe somebody else would have said it to Tam but who? Tam has spent his entire time since the TR farmers followed Perrin out, more or less isolated. He's been in contact with some Aiel and a few Southron soldiers from Mayene and Ghealdan, who don't really know Rand. Do you think the Aiel would have proudly told Tam the Cara'carn has great skill with a sword?

 

[Mcpatrick]

In my original question,I'm currently in my reread in book 4. At that time it'd say a lot to a man who hasn't seen his sone in a year?  year and a half?  Obviously he'd have killed a blademaster. Even as of TgS, for someone who doesn't know much of whats happened to Rand, it'd say something. 

 

Darkspot, while you're right on how much damage the power can do, you forget how weak the Aes Saidi (I spelled that totally wrong) are now.  Nyvene is as strong as the strongest channelere we know (I believe) Elayne and Egwene would be considered talented in the AoL, but from what we know, they far surpass most Aes Saidi.  As the Seachan raid showed, they know nothing of warfare, and are weak overall.

 

Its not really strength in the power that is important though, but skill and training. The damane are better because they are made to practice their battle weaves consistently. 

 

Consider how effective Joline, Teslyn and Edesina would have been in the final battle of KoD if they had linked and the one leading had LTT's skill with weaving. The arrows of flame alone would have annihilated the cavalry before they even got within bowshot. (Given that LTT killing trollocs at a rate of up to 1000/s.)

[Cirin]

Even if the Blademaster's on the Seanchan continent are "inferior" to the Blademaster's on the mainland, that doesn't correlate to battlefield proficiency.  Being a Blademaster is a dueling art, designed for one on one or possibly one on several combat, not for a battlefield.  The Seanchan skill at dueling does not translate to their skill on the battlefield.  The Roman military wasn't a strong one because all their soldiers were amazing swordsman.  Dancing through the swordplay forms isn't going to stop an arrow from catching you in the throat.

 

As for the Deathwatch Guards, they're probably very competent in one on one duels, but I doubt they fight one on one duels that often.  And if they did, there's nothing to say they wouldn't use their entire bodies as weapons, and take advantage of the fact that they're armored as well.  Besides, they have Ogier too, and there's only so much a sword can do to deflect a massive axe swung by something twice your size.