An Alternative View of the Propecy of the Dragon's Death at Shayol Ghul

[Mr Ares]

Oh btw, you seem to think that I am insinuating that children are going to die and I think it would be a good ending?

No, I'm pointing out that TG will probably happen long before Elayne reaches full term, so those babies will be born very prematurely on a battlefield. That's not a good chance of survival, and it follows from that that dead babies generally don't equal a happy ending. Unless you're really not cut out for fatherhood.

Futhermore, if Rand"gets it right" this time why does he he have to be reborn again and again??

Time is a wheel. (There is a clue to this effect in the title of the series.) All this has happened before and all this will happen again.

Shouldn't he be granted some peace or some kind of eternity?

In which case, the Pattern is a bit screwed next time Shai'tan starts getting uppity.

 

And sort out your quote tags. It makes it a lot easier to reply if I can actually see your point rather than it being lost in the shuffle. Just stick everything you have to say at the end, after the last

.

[Cirin]

I am also inclined to believe that the "three on a boat" are Rand's three love interests, particularly since at the end of Arthurian legends, Arthur, badly wounded and dying, is brought aboard a strange ship with three mysterious women who bear him off to Avalon, where he will wait until the world needs him again, following the battle of Cammlann (where he fought and was wounded by Mordred).  The three women on the boat are Arthur's half-sister Morgan Le Fay (the sorceress) 2) The Queen of North Gales 3) The Queen of the Waste Land.

 

That's pretty indicative, I'd say.

 

Also, Min, Elayne, and Aviendha also seem to have a lot of imagery associated with them, to a degree.  Elayne is from Andor, where Rand's mother is from - Aviendha from the Waste, where Rand's father was from - and Min is from the area around the Two Rivers, where Rand is from (raised there), so they represent three aspects of his heritage.  Elayne is (in my opinion) the most likely candidate for Ilyena reborn, which could represent the past - Aviendha is an Aiel from the Waste, (and Rand was born to a clan chief and a Maiden of the Spear, and the Aiel are his principle military force, they didn't exist in the Age of Legends (in the same way they do now), etc.) who could represent the present, and Min sees the future and can't channel, but likes to do research, etc., and could represent the future... so they could also represent the three fates.  I realize that this is nothing new, really, just mentioning it for people that haven't heard about it before, as I always like seeing the mythical parallels.

[DocBean]

A lot of people have speculated that Elayne giving birth would fulfill that prophecy.

I'm actually one of the few who believes it.

 

I don't think Rand will be cut and die. I think the prophecy won't be that obvious.

I also don't buy that people think the babies won't survive - remember, this is Randland, where some channeler can magically heal your life threatening wounds in seconds.

I'd say they are much further along medically then we are with modern science and no magic.

 

I think at this point no one can say what his blood being spilt will mean, but I won't be at all shocked if it's Elaynes babies.

I'll be shocked if we find out that Elaynes babies are actually Jon and Arya, and the father is Rhaegar whom she had a love affair with, which started this whole war. (...sorry wrong forum)

 

 

[Durinax]

A lot of people have speculated that Elayne giving birth would fulfill that prophecy.

I'm actually one of the few who believes it.

 

I don't think Rand will be cut and die. I think the prophecy won't be that obvious.

I also don't buy that people think the babies won't survive - remember, this is Randland, where some channeler can magically heal your life threatening wounds in seconds.

I'd say they are much further along medically then we are with modern science and no magic.

 

I think at this point no one can say what his blood being spilt will mean, but I won't be at all shocked if it's Elaynes babies.

I'll be shocked if we find out that Elaynes babies are actually Jon and Arya, and the father is Rhaegar whom she had a love affair with, which started this whole war. (...sorry wrong forum)

 

 

in order for the babies to be the blood on the rocks of shayol ghul, someone would have to cut em up. the blood during birth is the blood of the mother, so it wouldnt be rands blood at all

[Cirin]

Maybe the Dark One will take the shape of an ACTUAL dragon, and Rand will kill it, sending the Dark One back into his Prison!  That must be it!  It makes total sense!  There IS NO OTHER POSSIBILITY!!  :o  :o  :o

[HeWhoComesWithTheTakeout]

 

in order for the babies to be the blood on the rocks of shayol ghul, someone would have to cut em up. the blood during birth is the blood of the mother, so it wouldnt be rands blood at all

 

Actually the placenta that is expelled (also known as afterbirth) contains arterioles and venules which contain both the blood of the mother and of the child. The placenta is actually developed from the blastocyst (the egg and sperm cell which form the zygote and devlop into an infant) which means that it is originally a part of the child. Therefore the placenta which is expelled when the children are born contains their blood (often the placenta rips spilling some of its contents out). I think that this satisfies the blood of the Dragon  being spilled on the rocks of Shayol Ghul as the blood would contain both Rand's childrens' blood and elayne's blood as well. Furthermore, "blood" is also a metaphorical term for one's relatives, family members ect... So when we say that Rand's blood will be spilled on the rocks of shayol ghul; it is also a metaphorical reference to his progeny being born on SG, therefore fulfilling the prophecy

 

[HeWhoComesWithTheTakeout]

Oh btw, you seem to think that I am insinuating that children are going to die and I think it would be a good ending?

No, I'm pointing out that TG will probably happen long before Elayne reaches full term, so those babies will be born very prematurely on a battlefield. That's not a good chance of survival, and it follows from that that dead babies generally don't equal a happy ending. Unless you're really not cut out for fatherhood.

Futhermore, if Rand"gets it right" this time why does he he have to be reborn again and again??

Time is a wheel. (There is a clue to this effect in the title of the series.) All this has happened before and all this will happen again.

Shouldn't he be granted some peace or some kind of eternity?

In which case, the Pattern is a bit screwed next time Shai'tan starts getting uppity.

 

And sort out your quote tags. It makes it a lot easier to reply if I can actually see your point rather than it being lost in the shuffle. Just stick everything you have to say at the end, after the last

.

Remember, I am arguing from the point that the birth of Elayne's children will coincide with Tarmon Gai'don (i.e. the children will be carried to full term before being delivered and will not be premature). Your argument against my "happy ending" resulting in the death of the children revolves around your assumption/theory that TG will be fought way before Elayne's children are born. If your theory is correct that TG happens way before the children can be born safely, then I believe you would be correct that the children would have to be born after the battle is over. However my theory argues from the converse basis that the births will occur during TG after sufficient time has passed for the children to be born safely.What's up with all the digs at my potential for "fatherhood"; is that supposed to be a joke? Yes I am very aware of the title of the series and the nature of the wheel; I have read the books three times so far and have been reading them for ten years, please don't patronize me.If this version of TG is just another of the cyclical battles that signal the end of an Age, then yes the Dragon will continue to be Reborn to fight the battle forever. However; this time I think might be different; there are multiple variables in play: Fain,Rand's access to the True Power, Moridin's connection with Rand ect... I think that iit is very possible for this to be truly the Last Battle. I think the Dragon may achieve a permanent victory over the Shadow this time; whether that be the Dark One is permanently sealed away; weakedned to the point of inefficacy, or eliminated. (I've been toying with the thought of Rand using the True Power during the Last Battle/using his connection to the True Power to turn the Dark One's own energy back on himself in order to destroy him like Rand did the Choedan Kal. I believe it was said the ChoedaN Kal could supplant the Dark One. If Rand could destroy something of equivalent power to the Dark One, perhaps he can destroy the Dark One as well.)This answers the third statement you made; if Shai'tan is dead/permanently imprisoned/weakedned to the point of inefficacy the Dragon will not have to be forever Reborn for the purpose of fighting TG. OhI'm still getting the hang of the quote system-apologies. 

[darth_hel]

Aren't both Galad and Slayer(well the Luc part) both blood related to Rand? I kind of always preferred the idea they one or both of them might die in the right place so that his blood is spilled. Or possibly Tam/The Two Rivers folk as his more metaphorical blood, those who shaped his personality during his years growing up.

[Tommatt]

I am also inclined to believe that the "three on a boat" are Rand's three love interests, particularly since at the end of Arthurian legends, Arthur, badly wounded and dying, is brought aboard a strange ship with three mysterious women who bear him off to Avalon, where he will wait until the world needs him again, following the battle of Cammlann (where he fought and was wounded by Mordred).  The three women on the boat are Arthur's half-sister Morgan Le Fay (the sorceress) 2) The Queen of North Gales 3) The Queen of the Waste Land.

 

That's pretty indicative, I'd say.

 

Also, Min, Elayne, and Aviendha also seem to have a lot of imagery associated with them, to a degree.  Elayne is from Andor, where Rand's mother is from - Aviendha from the Waste, where Rand's father was from - and Min is from the area around the Two Rivers, where Rand is from (raised there), so they represent three aspects of his heritage.  Elayne is (in my opinion) the most likely candidate for Ilyena reborn, which could represent the past - Aviendha is an Aiel from the Waste, (and Rand was born to a clan chief and a Maiden of the Spear, and the Aiel are his principle military force, they didn't exist in the Age of Legends (in the same way they do now), etc.) who could represent the present, and Min sees the future and can't channel, but likes to do research, etc., and could represent the future... so they could also represent the three fates.  I realize that this is nothing new, really, just mentioning it for people that haven't heard about it before, as I always like seeing the mythical parallels.

 

I'm relatively new here, and must say, that is why I love this site!  Never heard that before.

[Mr Ares]

I think that this satisfies the blood of the Dragon  being spilled on the rocks of Shayol Ghul as the blood would contain both Rand's childrens' blood and elayne's blood as well.

But not Rand's blood. So something that doesn't contain Rand's blood fulfills Rand's blood staining the rocks of Shayol Ghul?

Furthermore, "blood" is also a metaphorical term for one's relatives, family members ect...

True, but some also like to take it a step further, with the blood of relatives being taken to be Rand's blood in this instance, which doesn't really fit. If it is literal blood, it is Rand's literal blood.

So when we say that Rand's blood will be spilled on the rocks of shayol ghul, it is also a metaphorical reference to his progeny being born on SG, therefore fulfilling the prophecy

Except that doesn't quite fit the words of the prophecies - "red on black, the Dragon's blood stains the rocks of SG", "red blood on black rocks." It indicates literal blood to me, and I've yet to see a truly satisfying alternative. How would Rand's kids "stain" Shayol Ghul?

 

Remember, I am arguing from the point that the birth of Elayne's children will coincide with Tarmon Gai'don (i.e. the children will be carried to full term before being delivered and will not be premature).

Remember, I'm arging from the point of view that the timeline doesn't really indicate we have that long to wait. You brought up the timeline first - in your initial post you said that Elayne "probably will not have given birth by Tg if the pace of the books are maintained". If that pace is maintained, they will be several months short of full term. If that pace is not maintained, all bets are off. They could already be born by then. If you wish to stick with current pacing, they probably won't be ready. If you don't, then born before, during or after TG are all about as likely. Your theory shoots itself in the foot.

 

Aren't both Galad and Slayer(well the Luc part) both blood related to Rand?

Yes.

I kind of always preferred the idea they one or both of them might die in the right place so that his blood is spilled.

How, when it wouldn't be his blood, but theirs that is being spilled?

[Wantanswers]

I have read a lot of posts, concerning the possibilities how the DO could be defeated and I found 3 options. So let us look at them.

1. Reseal the Bore.

This one has failed before and will fail again. Perhaps another age will start and at the end the DO will try to break free again.

2. Healing the pattern; closing the Bore.

This would be a draw. The WoT will turn on and in another turning of the Wheel the Bore will be drilled again.

3. Destroy the Dark One.

This is the worst option, because the pattern would be destroyed as well. You cannot weave a pattern with threads in one color. If the Dark One is destroyed the whole world would be changed in a waste with endless days. There wouldn’t even be shadow to hide. Shadow, just as twilight, is a balance of light and dark.

 

Imo, The Dragon has to find a balance between light and dark. An Aiel wish seems to support that idea:

May you always find shadow and water.

 

Before I go on, we have to assume the DO won’t win (don’t want to think he does), because some of the foretellings won’t be fulfilled if he wins. For example, Aviendha won’t get children if the pattern is destroyed.

 

“The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives. The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants. The future teeters on the edge of a blade.”

  —Lord of Chaos, chapter 14

This foretelling of Nicola Treehill can’t happen either if the DO wins. Obviously, a lot of people has survived Tarmon Gaidon, so the pattern still exists. But still there is something odd in this foretelling:

. . .the world not done with battle.

How is this possible. In the Age of Legends there were no battles before the Bore was drilled. At that time the Dark One couldn’t touch the world, because he was locked . . . locked??? . . . locked . .

He was locked in a BOX.

I bolded box intentionally, because I think this is the little thing we missed. I will post my other reflections about this idea in the appropriate thread for otherwise I would go off-topic too much.

 

I have raised more questions as I have answered:

The Dark One is free to touch the world; but not free to destroy the pattern.

How is that possible?

Rand got obsessed, not to say insane, after he was locked in a box.

How insane must the Dark One be after being locked away ever since the wheel turns?

How can The Dragon defeat an insane deity?

 

Well, he will not defeat the DO, he will have to contain him.

Originally posted by RJ/BS

Min glanced at the books. Herid’s little slip of paper still peeked from the depths of Thoughts Among the Ruins. “Rand” she said. “You have to destroy the seals to the Dark One’s prison.”

He looked at her, frowning.

“I’m sure of it,” she said. “I’ve been reading Herid’s books all this time, and I believe that’s what he meant by ‘clearing away all the rubble.’ In order to rebuild the Dark One’s prison, you will first need to open it. Clear away the patch made on the Bore.”

She had expected him to be incredulous. Shockingly, he just nodded. “Yes,” he said. “Yes, that sounds right. I doubt that many will wish to hear it. If those seals are broken, there is no way to tell what will happen. If I fail to contain him . . .”

(TGS, A place to begin, page 244, English Edition)

I haven’t worked out yet how TDR can contain the DO, but a kind of Jesus parallel is possible.

His blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul, washing away the Shadow, sacrifice for man's salvation.

Will the Creator interfere after Rand’s sacrifice?

 

There are things that give some ground to my ideas

The unwritten book

Robert Jordan intended to write a book about Fortuona and Matrim, reuniting Seanchan. If he had written that book without battles, it would have been the most boring book he ever wrote.

The ancient Aes Sedai sign

This is just as the jin-jang sign a sign of balance. But it also is a combination of the Flame of Tar Valon, a combination of dark and light. In it the two are as one.

Perhaps you dislike my ideas, perhaps you will be disappointed if the books end in this way. Well, I don’t think Robert Jordan ever intended to write a book called The Road to Paradise

 

[Shadow Rider]

I believe the blood of the Dragon refers to the Aiel who are known as the children of the dragon & also the blood of the the Dragon.

I believe 'the blood of the Dragon on the slopes of SG' means a lot of Aiel are going to die up there.

Be cool to see Rand turn into a real Dragon and battle the Great Lord in the sky's over TG.

[sumquy]

Elayne giving birth on the slopes of SG has a certain symmetry with Rands own birth. I don't think it is likely, but I wouldn't be surprised either. Is it too much to hope Elayne will die too?

 

I think it almost has to be Rands literal blood on the rocks. The imagery of the prophecy is to precise. Besides, it doesn't have to be an awe and thunder moment. If, while fighting his was up the slope to the bore, he bleeds on the rocks, he may be the only person who even notices.

 

I also think that Rand has to die. The dream of someone dying and it being important that he not; Logain stepping over a dead body to glory; he who is dead yet lives still on the boat. I hate to say it, but I am pretty sure were headed for a body swap of some sort. And since Rand won't need his old body anymore, it may as well die and fulfill the prophecies.

[HeWhoComesWithTheTakeout]

 

 

Remember, I am arguing from the point that the birth of Elayne's children will coincide with Tarmon Gai'don (i.e. the children will be carried to full term before being delivered and will not be premature).

Remember, I'm arging from the point of view that the timeline doesn't really indicate we have that long to wait. You brought up the timeline first - in your initial post you said that Elayne "probably will not have given birth by Tg if the pace of the books are maintained". If that pace is maintained, they will be several months short of full term. If that pace is not maintained, all bets are off. They could already be born by then. If you wish to stick with current pacing, they probably won't be ready. If you don't, then born before, during or after TG are all about as likely. Your theory shoots itself in the foot.

 

I meant that the pacing will not allow them to be born before TG- basically here it is: Elayne will birth her children at full term at SG durin TG. The pacing of the books will adapt/allow for this to happen. I think that several months will pass between TGS am th 700,000 or so words of the next two books. If it dosen't then the idea is bunk; if it does then it is a possibilty.

 

 

[MikeRiley]

Wantanswers, the Dark One isn't the origin of war and evil. He merely magnifies what's in man's own heart already.

[HeWhoComesWithTheTakeout]

Wantanswers, the Dark One isn't the origin of war and evil. He merely magnifies what's in man's own heart already.

 

well said. Ppl have the free will to choose between good and evil- same concept in Christianity; man has the abilty to do good or evil; Satan merely tempts man to do evil.

[Wantanswers]

Wantanswers, the Dark One isn't the origin of war and evil. He merely magnifies what's in man's own heart already.

Does that change anything to my ideas? In the AoL the DO was emprisoned and he could not magnifie the bad side of mankind. On the other side, the Creator was free and could have magnified the good side of mankind. Anyhow, the DO could not touch the world in a way he could cause battles.

[StefanR]

Have people considered that Rand might have to fake his death? And not physically die, but to everybody else, he will have?

[Mr Ares]

Remember, I am arguing from the point that the birth of Elayne's children will coincide with Tarmon Gai'don (i.e. the children will be carried to full term before being delivered and will not be premature).

Remember, I'm arging from the point of view that the timeline doesn't really indicate we have that long to wait. You brought up the timeline first - in your initial post you said that Elayne "probably will not have given birth by Tg if the pace of the books are maintained". If that pace is maintained, they will be several months short of full term. If that pace is not maintained, all bets are off. They could already be born by then. If you wish to stick with current pacing, they probably won't be ready. If you don't, then born before, during or after TG are all about as likely. Your theory shoots itself in the foot.

I meant that the pacing will not allow them to be born before TG- basically here it is: Elayne will birth her children at full term at SG durin TG. The pacing of the books will adapt/allow for this to happen. I think that several months will pass between TGS am th 700,000 or so words of the next two books. If it dosen't then the idea is bunk; if it does then it is a possibilty.

The pacing as it is so far will not allow them to be born at TG either. If you wish to throw out the pacing to fit your theory, fine, but by the same token they could be born before or after. Thus the timeline in no way supports your theory, nor does the wording of the prophecies, unless you would actually care to answer my point on that front. Bear in mind that over the more than 900,000 words since Elayne's pregnancy began (also bearing in mind there will be some timeline crossover with TGS and ToM, as Elayne had nothing in that last book), about 106 days have passed. About three and a half months. So the parts of ToM that extend after the end of TGS, and the whole of AMoL up to TG, will take the best part of six months, according to you. The book that comes closest to that is probably TGH. Which featured Rand and co lost in a Portal Stone for four months. So really your theory is based on nothing more than you want it to happen. The timeline doesn't support you, nor does the wording of the prophecies.

[HeWhoComesWithTheTakeout]

Hahahaha, my my my Mr.Ares, no need to be so hostile. I'm sure time in the Tower of Ghenji is probably a little different then normal time as well. That could provide adequate time to pass; also how long will it take for Lan to travel across the Continent? Especially with an army in tow? How long will Rand take to deal with the Seanchan, White Tower, Black Tower, and his various responsibilities before launching TG. Seems like a pretty long to-do list , not to mention once it is finished he must gather his forces and decide if he is ready to launch an assault on an Evil Deity backed by hordes of Darkspawn and Shadowsworn. I would probably mull that decision over for a little while before making it, wouldn't you agree? We are on day 60 or so of the oil spill in the gulf and we haven't even begun a comprehensive cleanup- you think planning how to fight Armageddon will take less time?  The wording of the prophecies are vague at best and often are not as obvious in meaning as they first appear; hindsight shows them to be obvious but then again hindsight is always 20/20. I don't think that after all of the buildup and the time put into the WoT that we would be left with an ending that was so blatantly obvious from the first books that someone lacking the five senses could have anticipated it. No I think the ending will be a little more complex than "the prophecy said the Dragon must die-oh look see he is dead, yea! The world is set for another Age and the Dark One is temporarily flustered let's spin the wheel again." I don't claim to know the ending- I merely offer an alternative possibilty, something that may not have been considered thoroughly.  

[MikeRiley]

Wantanswers, the Dark One isn't the origin of war and evil. He merely magnifies what's in man's own heart already.

Does that change anything to my ideas? In the AoL the DO was emprisoned and he could not magnifie the bad side of mankind. On the other side, the Creator was free and could have magnified the good side of mankind. Anyhow, the DO could not touch the world in a way he could cause battles.

 

 

The Creator doesn't magnify anything. It set itself aside from the world and simply watches. It even made that clear in the end of The Eye of the World at Tarwin's Gap.

 

It changes these assumptions from your post:

 

3. Destroy the Dark One.

This is the worst option, because the pattern would be destroyed as well. You cannot weave a pattern with threads in one color. If the Dark One is destroyed the whole world would be changed in a waste with endless days. There wouldn’t even be shadow to hide. Shadow, just as twilight, is a balance of light and dark.

 

The Dark One is not the source of the dark. He merely magnifies it. So the Wheel would not be set off balance. In fact, you could say that the Dragon exists purely to counter the Dark One's influence over the two ages in which he exists. We know the land is tied to Rand's mental state/mood. He has the ability to create extra order and prosperity to go against the Dark One's extra chaos.

 

 

This foretelling of Nicola Treehill can’t happen either if the DO wins. Obviously, a lot of people has survived Tarmon Gaidon, so the pattern still exists. But still there is something odd in this foretelling:

. . .the world not done with battle.

How is this possible. In the Age of Legends there were no battles before the Bore was drilled. At that time the Dark One couldn’t touch the world, because

 

 

If the Dark One merely magnifies the evil that already exists in man's heart then this point has no point. The Dark One's removal from the pattern would not mean there will never be battle again. It just means the battles will be fought for different reasons. Note that there were battles before the Age of Legends and it was the discovery of the One Power that caused an age of peace. A sort of paradise was achieved through progress so there were no pitched battles, but we do have the binding rods to tell us there was still crime, and the forsaken back stories to tell us of ambition. It's been suggested that the first age is the age we are currently in due to the many instances of real events set as myths/legends in the series. Anyway, with the Dark One gone that would still leave the very real threats from the Seanchan, Black and White Towers along with any ambitious lord looking to rule when Rand is gone. These are man-made threats that always exist, whether the Dark One exists in the pattern or not.

 

 

Anyway, I'm just disagreeing with the way you make your point. I don't believe it's even possible to destroy the Dark One. The Bore will have to be unmade in order for the Light to win. This removes the Dark One's influence on the pattern entirely and sets up the next cycle.

[Mr Ares]

Hahahaha, my my my Mr Ares, no need to be so hostile.

When was I hostile? I'm really not sure where you're getting that from. I provided some information to back up my assertions about the pacing not really supporting your theory, was that it? Because it really wasn't intended that way.

I'm sure time in the Tower of Ghenji is probably a little different then normal time as well. That could provide adequate time to pass; also how long will it take for Lan to travel across the Continent? Especially with an army in tow? How long will Rand take to deal with the Seanchan, White Tower, Black Tower, and his various responsibilities before launching TG.

I accept that there is still a fair bit to do. I have never denied that. I just don't accept that there is five and a half months worth of stuff to do, given the pacing of the series to date. Nothing really bears that out except for your desire to have Elayne's babies bo born at TG. And my objections to that happening to fulfill the prophecies are based on more than just the timeline - specifically, the wording of the prophecies doesn't support it, and it seem unlikely Rand would bring his heavily pregnant girlfriend with him when he goes to face Shai'tan.

Seems like a pretty long to-do list , not to mention once it is finished he must gather his forces and decide if he is ready to launch an assault on an Evil Deity backed by hordes of Darkspawn and Shadowsworn. I would probably mull that decision over for a little while before making it, wouldn't you agree?

The Shadow is not purely reactive - if their forces are ready, they can choose to strike, whether Rand has negotitated with the Seanchan, sorted out the BT, or made an alliance with the WT, or whether Mat is out of the ToG or Lan's army is at Tarwin's Gap, or whether Loial has convinced the Great Stump, or whether any of the other things that have to happen have happened. They won't just sit back and wait. Plus, some of the other phenomena we have seen, such as the ghosts or the ripples in KoD indicate that TG is going to have to happen soon. The world might not have six months to wait.

The wording of the prophecies are vague at best and often are not as obvious in meaning as they first appear; hindsight shows them to be obvious but then again hindsight is always 20/20. I don't think that after all of the buildup and the time put into the WoT that we would be left with an ending that was so blatantly obvious from the first books that someone lacking the five senses could have anticipated it. No I think the ending will be a little more complex than "the prophecy said the Dragon must die-oh look see he is dead, yea! The world is set for another Age and the Dark One is temporarily flustered let's spin the wheel again."

The prophecies are vague, true, but they always come true. If the prophecies say Rand must die, then in some way he must die. Not necessarily literally, I do not dispute that. But it has to happen. If the prophecies state that Rand's blood must stain the rocks of SG which they do - then that must happen, in some way. Now, people have put forward explanations besides him actually bleeding on SG, and I have tried to explain why I don't think any of these really fits. For example, red blood on black rocks referring to the Aiel being on SG? Seems rather odd, and doesn't quite make sense to me. The Aiel might be Rand's blood, but they are not red blood. Same for his children. The Dragon's blood staining the rocks? Again, I don't really see how a bunch of Aiel or a couple of babies would constitute a stain. I have explained this before, and there has been ample opportunity for you to explain exactly how Rand's kids being born on SG constitutes his blood staining the rocks. It's not too late, I really would like an explanation of why you consider his kids a stain. That's a genuine request. As for the ending, it doesn't really tell us a lot. If it refers to Rand's literal blood, then he goes to SG, bleeds a bit, then does something to stop Shai'tan. Doesn't tell us how Shai'tan is stopped, just that Rand will do a bit of bleeding at SG. I don't see how that consitutes an obvious ending. It is only a part of the ending, quite possibly only a minor part, one we see happen in passing. Offering alternative explanations for prophecies is all well and good, but a little clarification would be appreciated on why you think this explains things. Here is the wording again: "Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed.

Once for mourning, once for birth.

Red on black, the Dragon's blood stains the rock of Shayol Ghul.

In the Pit of Doom shall his blood free men from the Shadow.

 

- The Great Hunt, Discord" Why do you think that Elayne's babies make for a better explanation? Once for birth, I suppose helps your case, but that needn't be at SG, that's one of the dawns. His blood is shed fits for literal blood, but babies being shed? Aiel being shed? Red on black? In the Pit of Doom shall his blood free men from the Shadow, if that refers to Elayne giving birth that would indicate she is giving birth in the Pit of Doom. Do you really think it is in character for Rand to take a heavily pregnant woman into the Pit of Doom?

[Cirin]

Also, for the record, "black rock wet with blood" was one of Min's viewings from Book One, I believe... which means she literally saw black rocks stained with blood.  I know her viewings are sometimes hard to predict, but that's usually when she sees something like "a flash of light" or something more vague like that.

[Durinax]

Also, for the record, "black rock wet with blood" was one of Min's viewings from Book One, I believe... which means she literally saw black rocks stained with blood.  I know her viewings are sometimes hard to predict, but that's usually when she sees something like "a flash of light" or something more vague like that.

she was viewing the forges of thakan'dar, where they kill humans to make myrrdraal blades, jk

[Duskfire]

I accept that there is still a fair bit to do. I have never denied that. I just don't accept that there is five and a half months worth of stuff to do, given the pacing of the series to date. Nothing really bears that out except for your desire to have Elayne's babies bo born at TG. And my objections to that happening to fulfill the prophecies are based on more than just the timeline - specifically, the wording of the prophecies doesn't support it, and it seem unlikely Rand would bring his heavily pregnant girlfriend with him when he goes to face Shai'tan.

 

While I agree with you that a pregnant Elayne won't go to Shayol Ghul, there is still the matter of Mats cannons. I am no expert on them, but it seems that it would take at least a few months to have them created. So TG could easily be four/five months away.