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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

HeWhoComesWithTheTakeout

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About HeWhoComesWithTheTakeout

  • Birthday 01/01/1
  1. Hahahaha, my my my Mr.Ares, no need to be so hostile. I'm sure time in the Tower of Ghenji is probably a little different then normal time as well. That could provide adequate time to pass; also how long will it take for Lan to travel across the Continent? Especially with an army in tow? How long will Rand take to deal with the Seanchan, White Tower, Black Tower, and his various responsibilities before launching TG. Seems like a pretty long to-do list , not to mention once it is finished he must gather his forces and decide if he is ready to launch an assault on an Evil Deity backed by hordes of Darkspawn and Shadowsworn. I would probably mull that decision over for a little while before making it, wouldn't you agree? We are on day 60 or so of the oil spill in the gulf and we haven't even begun a comprehensive cleanup- you think planning how to fight Armageddon will take less time? The wording of the prophecies are vague at best and often are not as obvious in meaning as they first appear; hindsight shows them to be obvious but then again hindsight is always 20/20. I don't think that after all of the buildup and the time put into the WoT that we would be left with an ending that was so blatantly obvious from the first books that someone lacking the five senses could have anticipated it. No I think the ending will be a little more complex than "the prophecy said the Dragon must die-oh look see he is dead, yea! The world is set for another Age and the Dark One is temporarily flustered let's spin the wheel again." I don't claim to know the ending- I merely offer an alternative possibilty, something that may not have been considered thoroughly.
  2. well said. Ppl have the free will to choose between good and evil- same concept in Christianity; man has the abilty to do good or evil; Satan merely tempts man to do evil.
  3. Remember, I'm arging from the point of view that the timeline doesn't really indicate we have that long to wait. You brought up the timeline first - in your initial post you said that Elayne "probably will not have given birth by Tg if the pace of the books are maintained". If that pace is maintained, they will be several months short of full term. If that pace is not maintained, all bets are off. They could already be born by then. If you wish to stick with current pacing, they probably won't be ready. If you don't, then born before, during or after TG are all about as likely. Your theory shoots itself in the foot. I meant that the pacing will not allow them to be born before TG- basically here it is: Elayne will birth her children at full term at SG durin TG. The pacing of the books will adapt/allow for this to happen. I think that several months will pass between TGS am th 700,000 or so words of the next two books. If it dosen't then the idea is bunk; if it does then it is a possibilty.
  4. No, I'm pointing out that TG will probably happen long before Elayne reaches full term, so those babies will be born very prematurely on a battlefield. That's not a good chance of survival, and it follows from that that dead babies generally don't equal a happy ending. Unless you're really not cut out for fatherhood. Time is a wheel. (There is a clue to this effect in the title of the series.) All this has happened before and all this will happen again. In which case, the Pattern is a bit screwed next time Shai'tan starts getting uppity. And sort out your quote tags. It makes it a lot easier to reply if I can actually see your point rather than it being lost in the shuffle. Just stick everything you have to say at the end, after the last . Remember, I am arguing from the point that the birth of Elayne's children will coincide with Tarmon Gai'don (i.e. the children will be carried to full term before being delivered and will not be premature). Your argument against my "happy ending" resulting in the death of the children revolves around your assumption/theory that TG will be fought way before Elayne's children are born. If your theory is correct that TG happens way before the children can be born safely, then I believe you would be correct that the children would have to be born after the battle is over. However my theory argues from the converse basis that the births will occur during TG after sufficient time has passed for the children to be born safely.What's up with all the digs at my potential for "fatherhood"; is that supposed to be a joke? Yes I am very aware of the title of the series and the nature of the wheel; I have read the books three times so far and have been reading them for ten years, please don't patronize me.If this version of TG is just another of the cyclical battles that signal the end of an Age, then yes the Dragon will continue to be Reborn to fight the battle forever. However; this time I think might be different; there are multiple variables in play: Fain,Rand's access to the True Power, Moridin's connection with Rand ect... I think that iit is very possible for this to be truly the Last Battle. I think the Dragon may achieve a permanent victory over the Shadow this time; whether that be the Dark One is permanently sealed away; weakedned to the point of inefficacy, or eliminated. (I've been toying with the thought of Rand using the True Power during the Last Battle/using his connection to the True Power to turn the Dark One's own energy back on himself in order to destroy him like Rand did the Choedan Kal. I believe it was said the ChoedaN Kal could supplant the Dark One. If Rand could destroy something of equivalent power to the Dark One, perhaps he can destroy the Dark One as well.)This answers the third statement you made; if Shai'tan is dead/permanently imprisoned/weakedned to the point of inefficacy the Dragon will not have to be forever Reborn for the purpose of fighting TG. OhI'm still getting the hang of the quote system-apologies.
  5. in order for the babies to be the blood on the rocks of shayol ghul, someone would have to cut em up. the blood during birth is the blood of the mother, so it wouldnt be rands blood at all Actually the placenta that is expelled (also known as afterbirth) contains arterioles and venules which contain both the blood of the mother and of the child. The placenta is actually developed from the blastocyst (the egg and sperm cell which form the zygote and devlop into an infant) which means that it is originally a part of the child. Therefore the placenta which is expelled when the children are born contains their blood (often the placenta rips spilling some of its contents out). I think that this satisfies the blood of the Dragon being spilled on the rocks of Shayol Ghul as the blood would contain both Rand's childrens' blood and elayne's blood as well. Furthermore, "blood" is also a metaphorical term for one's relatives, family members ect... So when we say that Rand's blood will be spilled on the rocks of shayol ghul; it is also a metaphorical reference to his progeny being born on SG, therefore fulfilling the prophecy
  6. . The three on the boat are most likely to be Rand's three ladies, but there is nothing to indicate this boat will be at TG. There isn't really any indication of it being a naval encounter, after all. Most people think it will come afterwards, which makes more sense. So who will the three who are as one be? Could be anyone, really, too little to say. Rand, Cadsuane, Moiraine? Rand, Nynaeve, Alivia? Rand, Egwene, Fortuona? Pick three, any three. Well, KoD made abundantly clear that Elayne being alive to deliver her babies doesn't mean that everyone around her will be safe, so given her limited channeling capabilities at present it would not be a good idea to stick her in the middle of a battle. At present she wouldn't be a lot of help, and would just get those around her killed. And there's no reason why the babies should be born before series end.Yeah, but as I said, thinking it through it doesn't look all that feel good an ending to have Rand's premature children die on the slopes of Shayol Ghul. That's been put forward a few times. Certainly nothing against it as yet. But it being metaphorical or symbolic goes against all the times prophecies are fulfilled literally. Personally, I prefer literal interpretations. Bear in mind Mat did literally marry the Daughter of the Nine Moons, Rand did come from Rhuidean at dawn, the Stone fell when the people of the Dragon came, when Callandor was taken. Some prophecies were most definitely fulfilled literally rather than symbolically, and the same could be true of this one. And I posted the wording of the relevant prophecies earlier, and I don't think it really supports a lot of Aiel, not without some twisting. The spilling of Rand's blood fits much better, at least to my mind.
  7. Yeah exactly the main focus was supposed to be on Elayne giving birth to rands kids at shayol ghul; the whole "him being one of her kids" was just a passin thought. I actually acknowledges what you said in my previous post; they are already concieved so they have their own souls and it's a one soul per body rule I think haha
  8. very true, and equally a possible and valid interpretation of that segment of Prophecy; the reasoning for my interpretation was that "three shall become one" is mentioned right next to "blade of light" which I think os callandor. Thus I figured that one woul deal directlywith the other since Rey are mentioned togther. Plus I am led to believe that callandor mist be used in TG and Therefore the two female channelers necessary to complete the link would be avi and Elayne bc of the bond they share and the trust Rand has for them. I couldn't see anyone short of moiraine or nynaeve conpleing the link instead of those two.
  9. Thanks to everyone for all the positive commentary so far! Very insightful. Lol "pulling a Kronos" that made me chuckle
  10. Firstly, don't bother with spoiler warnings. It's expected that people have read the series. A little bit of a leap there - after all, lots of people can channel, it could be others besides Avi or Elayne (especially as pregnancy interferes with Elayne's ability to channel, coupled with the fact that it would be decidedly out of character for Rand to take his pregnant girlfriend into the middle of a fight with an evil god. Even I wouldn't do that. Probably). It is unlikely Elayne will have given birth by then, given the current pace, but if she does give birth at SG I'm not convinced that event would be all that hopeful - those babies would probably be very premature. You're not the first to propose this idea, but I'm not convinced. Also, "red on black, the Dragon's blood stains the rock of Shayol Ghul", "black rock wet with blood". Those are prophecies that directly mention Rand's blood. I don't think the language of either supports kids being born. I can't see any alternative to Rand bleeding at present. Bleeding doesn't necessarily mean death, of course. It's not every day we get a theory quite thatcreepy. Congratulations Haha I'm new so I just thought I'd go ahead and put up the warning just in case thanks for the advice. In regard to the three becoming one; it seems to me that Elayne avi and min will probably be with Rand at the last battle bc of the phrase "3 on a boat" so I figured since they are already there the two who can channel would complete the link with Rand and callandor. If you have any alternate ideas to who the 3 may be I'd be interested. I. Regard to elaynes pregnancy; min had a viewing which insured Elayne against death until her children were born- i don't think that the books will e completed without them being born either bc then Elayne will largely be safe from harm unless the DO up an wrecks the Pattern. So they wouldn't be premature i don't think ( they could be born in an epilogue later though). Also I'm sure rands wounds will probably open too and it is likelythat he will die at the end of the novel; this theory was just a thought on a more feel-good ending haha. Especially in light of rands convo with his dad; seems to me Rand can really love again and I think that'd makes all the difference in his battle, bc he is now the antithesis of the dark ones hate. With this new outlook he has abaondoned his nihilism and it would be a bummer to see him die without having a chance to share it with others and do good. Oh and that creepy theory was just said in passing; deinitlwy don't think about it too much haha. No wu Rand could be his own kid, first of all bc the child already has an individual soul; it's not an empty vessel. On another note I think if Rand died and was later reincarnated would he remember the lessons he learned as Rand; most ppl forget previous life when reborn so it would also suck that he would have to relearn how to love and care yet again after all his scrifice. Jmo.
  11. ************Spoiler Warning************ Hi everybody, this is my first post. I just finished reading TGS and I was struck by a revelation when I was reading Rands confrontation with Tam and his subsequent acceptance of his past sins as Lews Therin on top of Dragonmount. Tam sys to Rand " Rand I think you can survive this. I can't imagine that the Pattern won't give you some peace, considering the service you're doing for us all...Youay not be able to choose the duties you're given. But you can choose why you fulfill them." This got me thinking: what if the Prophecy that "the dragon's blood will be spilled on the rocks of Shayol Ghul..." may reference a more hopeful event? I then read the next chapter "Reading the Commentary" in which Min ponders the Prophecy that declares that "He shall hold a blade of Light and the three shall become one..." obviously Rand Avi and Elayne will link using Callandor to fight Shai'tan at TG; it must be them because min herself cannot channel but the other two can. Elayne is pregnant with Rand's children and probably will not have given birth before Tg if the pace of the books are maintained. I propose that Elayne will give birth to Rands children on the Slopes of Shayol Ghul therby fulfilling the Prophecy that "the Dragons blood will be spilled on the rocks of SG" Rands children are his "blood." Also just thought of another possible outcome due to Prophecy which states "the lion sword the dedicated spear and (metaphor for Min) on a boat. With who is dead yet lives..." mabye Rand does die at shayol ghul, but is reborn as one of elaynes children. This is my lesser theory and is purely speculation. My first is the one in hich I have more confidence. Tell mewhat you think about these ideas.
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